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gently caress. That's like all I got. This one really got me. gently caress.
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Aug 29, 2020 03:40
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| # ¿ May 13, 2024 11:31 |
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I don't think they can recast. It would be too much of a mess of emotion. It sucks but losing a character is such a trivial and lame thing to be upset about when a young man is dead. I'm not gonna mourn for T'challa over Boseman. And recasting would feel like saying the character was more important. The fact that the natural alternative is to elevate a black woman just makes resisting that and forcing in a replacement all the more awkward. Honestly, I just feel loving dirty thinking about it or feeling sad about some silly movie series being affected.
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Aug 30, 2020 00:13
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If you told me they wanted to make Lupita Nyong'o the new Black Panther I wouldn't have a single problem with that. It feels like we're like 10 years away tops from having to reset the entire universe because everyone is too old, so I don't feel like losing T'Challa is fundamentally any worse than the great characters who haven't been around. And I half suspect that Loki, WandaVision, and Doctor Strange are gonna be all about introducing the Multiverse exactly so they can get around this and introduce alternative versions of characters so like, by Black Panther 3 we could meet an alternate T'Challa married to Storm or something. But again, this all feels like a really dirty concern right now. Not that I'm pointing fingers at anyone but myself.
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Aug 30, 2020 01:56
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howe_sam posted:I'm going to make the bold prediction that as long as Feige is running the show that's not going to happen, and as actors age out new characters will take their place. There's plenty of characters available to them that they don't need to go back to Steve or Tony. Like I said, my personal theory is that Loki, WandaVision, and Doctor Strange (and maybe in time Deadpool/X-Men) are all specifically designed to introduce the idea of the multiverse and that Black Widow, Falcon/WinterSolder, Thor, and Hawkeye will introduce the idea of successors. So yeah, I don't think they'll reset the MCU unless box offices start to struggle. But I don't think they'll just recast new Tony Starks and Steve Rogers either. I think they'll either do new characters under the same hero monikers or introduce alternative reality versions. I can't think of too many cases of major actors/stars being recast and it working out well. Even without the complications involved in respecting the deceased.
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Aug 30, 2020 03:04
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I think you can tell a really effective story about how death and sickness is sudden and tragic and hits everyone. And how as you grieve and your world is changed forever everything else just has to keep moving. Wakanda needs a leader and Black Panther. And if Shuri doesn't step up because she can't who does? Nakia? Okoye? M'baku? Does some new villain rise to challenge? Or does one attempt to take advantage of Wakanda while its lost and in mourning? That would be a different kind of MCU film but it also could be made into a MCU film. And I think it would honor Boseman and ease people into "moving on" when Shuri or whoever takes up the mantle. And then, yeah maybe in the process they decide a government system built on princes having battles to the death can be improved upon. JordanKai posted:I was going to post something about how by the time BP2 comes out, Nyong'o would be old enough as an actress to convincingly take on the mantle of the Black Panther from her Boseman. However, when I went to look her up on Wikipedia I found out that she's 37. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Aug 30, 2020 |
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Aug 30, 2020 03:49
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I honestly believed she was closer to her teens than her thirties, and I was under the impression that the character of Shuri was supposed to be a teen genius. Same with Chadwick Boseman, actually. I thought he was in his thirties. Maybe Wakandan de-aging technology is real.
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JordanKai posted:You're both right. I'm a dummy. Well I kinda think Nyong'o/Nakia would make a better option. She's a great actress who could kill in a starring role, I think Shuri has a defined character I like on her own as does Okoye, and Nakia was basically presented to us as T'Challa's match who was pushing him to be better and who wanted to be more than a queen. So I think a story where Shuri is being pushed into taking up the crown and BP mantle with questions of whether she's ready or fit and ultimately decides to lead a reformation of the government and give the mantle to a deserving hero could really work. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Aug 30, 2020 |
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Aug 30, 2020 04:01
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I think they did a good enough job establishing Wakanda and its cast that you can tell an effective "Black Panther" story without T'Challa. Its not a choice I'd make under different circumstances but I don't think its any better to just deal with this as a side story in someone else's movie. And that's without factoring into the cultural significance of the film and role. I'm also not sure what's fundamentally different from a new Black Panther being found/crowned in the movie as any origin movie.
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Aug 30, 2020 04:18
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The only thing I've been able to come up with is the Spartacus TV show and that's just a totally different level.
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Aug 30, 2020 04:24
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I think that's also probably a little different in that the whole Harry Potter series was built on following the set story which Dumbledore played a significant role in. There's T'Challa stories fans want to see, but he's not required for stories already in play. You CAN continue without him whether its a good idea or not.
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Aug 30, 2020 04:36
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I don't think anyone's suggesting people are "clamoring" for Shuri to take up the mantle. Its a tragic circumstance and some people just think it would be very uncomfortable to pretend it didn't happen, recast the character and continue as if nothing happened, and ignore the obvious options on the table in 3 black women being viable replacements. The MCU's gonna go on with or without T'Challa and as we await the arrival of The Eternals and Shang Chi I'm not sure its really a question of whether Shuri is a big enough draw as a comic character.
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Aug 30, 2020 04:52
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If it were Ant-Man or Black Widow I'd be inclined to agree. But Black Panther was such a culturally significant film and boon to Marvel/Disney that I can't see them just pushing all of Wakanda to the side.
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Aug 30, 2020 05:30
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Yeah realistically if there is a BP2 its probably like Phase 5 now.
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Aug 30, 2020 05:36
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Well that's why I'm Team Nakia. She's none of the obvious names but she's the actual Wakandan spy who also happens to be played by Lupita Nyong'o who is more than qualified to be a kick rear end lead to make sure Wakanda and the representation it was celebrated for doesn't get pushed to side characters in the MCU.
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Aug 30, 2020 05:57
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Yeah I think my first instinct is to have Shuri pressured to take up both roles and then deciding (a) there's a better Black Panther and (b) there's a better way to decide Wakanda's future and she's gonna spearhead it but not as a ruler.
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Aug 30, 2020 06:45
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I interpret it less as Thanos not being able to do it and more of him delegating responsibilities the same as he did with Ronan in Guardians of the Galaxy. He just sent a bunch of people out on the job and they all hosed up and/or went into business for themselves so he had to resolve to just take care of it himself. Maybe at that time he was locating some of the other Stones or something Infinity Stone unrelated. Part of the entire Infinity Saga seems to be that all our heroes inadvertently "woke" the Stones so Thanos could finally locate them all and collect them. But its been awhile since I watched the older ones so I haven't tried to connect the whole story. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Aug 31, 2020 |
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Aug 31, 2020 01:10
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Doesn't Avengers end with Thanos going "I'll do it myself?" and grabbing the Gauntlet? So I think they very much did know they were dealing with Infinity Stones at that time. But they certainly didn't have the full picture worked out yet.
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Aug 31, 2020 01:14
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Ah, my bad. Like I said I haven't watched those early ones since I've seen Endgame. So I haven't really tried to piece it all together to see if it works yet.
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Aug 31, 2020 01:22
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Well he has Gamora and Ronan going after the Power Stone in Guardians. But yeah, my head canon is that the Stones were a long term goal but they were all hidden/lost/protected so its not like he could just grab them any time. So he was trying to genocide the old fashioned way while also working on that easier solution on the side. Then like Jane Foster finds the Reality Stone and Strange awakens the Time Stone. I like the poetic idea of Thanos only being able to find the Stones because of the Avengers' adventures exposing them all. And then Ragnarok probably creates the perfect time for Thanos to go after them all.
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Aug 31, 2020 03:51
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He gets the information originally from torturing/hacking Nebula so yeah, I guess that was the last one. Then time travel gets him that info pre-Guardians but I can't really remember the timeline or if he just found out where the Soul Stone was from Nebula or the location of all the Stones. I gotta give Endgame a second watch. Which means just doing the whole drat thing over.
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Aug 31, 2020 03:59
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Yeah, you're pretty behind the game if you expect the Disney+ shows to be more like Agents of Shield and the Defenders than... the other Disney+ shows like WandaVision and Falcon and Winter Soldier, the shows starring movie characters and apparently directly tying into major events from the movies.
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Oct 1, 2020 08:07
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I swear I keep thinking "I ever saw that Spider-Man film" and then I remember I totally did burn through those films so I must have seen it but I don't remember it at all.Sgt. Politeness posted:I also assume she was back and forth to earth at least a few times over the 5 year blip considering her familiarity with characters like Rhodey after the time jump. Yeah, my read is that its entirely possible Carol was a known entity between Infinity War and Endgame and basically the ray of hope for a lot of people as the woman who showed up out of nowhere to save Stark, help kill Thanos, and do whatever else she did. Then she's the massive battle shifting force in the Endgame battle. I don't think its hard to imagine that she'd be a huge cultural icon to many or at least one teenage girl even barring any direct affect. They can change that and it seems like they will change Kamala's origin unless they plan to majorly rehaul the Inhumans before then but I don't think it takes much work to keep the Carol thing if they want to.
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Oct 1, 2020 20:14
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Dacap posted:I fully expect them to completely ignore the Inhumans TV show and pretend it never happened, using Ms Marvel as the jumping off point for a do-over. Although it sounds like Eternals is kinda positioned to fill the spot in the MCU the Inhumans would have. For sure. There's nothing worth salvaging from that show and even if they really wanted to redo the royal family I don't anyone would care about recasting. Then again there's also the terigenesis/Inhuman stuff established in Agents of Shield they could work in or ignore. I know its unlikely but I'd love to see Chloe Bennett used as Kamala's hands on mentor/peer as a companion to Carol's distant idolized hero mentor status. I think a lot could be done with that. But I also know it won't happen.
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Oct 1, 2020 20:21
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Dacap posted:I’m pretty certain none of the MCU TV beyond the DisneyPlus stuff is going to be included in the movies beyond that one Jarvis cameo. My guess is there's a chance once the shows are done and Marvel might be able to have full ownership of the future of the character. So like I could see Daredevil or Luke Cage or Punisher or Robbie Reyes entering the mix with very little reference to their pasts assuming there's no contractual ties. Agents of Shield is odd since its ABC so its still the same big umbrella. And Coulson is a movie guy who has returned. So I dunno. I'm not holding my breath but I don't think its beyond the realm of possibility and I don't think the past stuff really is indicative of what the future stuff will be. The circumstances have changed.
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Oct 1, 2020 20:32
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I think that beyond the reality shift of MCU tv and referential material pre-Disney+ and post-Disney+ the X-Men acquisition also potentially is a big game changer, especially with Deadpool/Ryan Reynolds. All of a sudden what to do with that has to be decided one way or another and it makes sense for the multiverse to be on the table to explain that stuff. Plus you've got something like Crisis on Infinite Earth happening. And while I'm sure MCU doesn't care that much what the CW is doing it does show that people had a lot of fun with a big mashup of a dozen continuities and deep reaches so hell, if you want to use X-Men Quicksilver in WandaVision or ASM Electro in the next Spidey movie why not? We're having fun.
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Oct 1, 2020 20:49
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Yeah, I don't know if that kind of thing is gonna happen. I'm just saying that people should let go of the old way of thinking that it won't happen because "MCU TV and Film is separate." That was about the rights being all over the place and different studios and networks making stuff. So just like Marvel Studios made continuity between the films a real possibility Disney+ makes continuity between tv and films much more possible as well, including because they can do stuff like push back Falcon/Winter Soldier because it might follow Black Widow and that's been pushed back. If Falcon/Winter Soldier was on Netflix that would be a problem. So I don't know that its any more likely that Charlie Cox or Chloe Bennett will find their way to MCU films. But I do think it makes a bit more sense now than it did a year ago.
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Oct 1, 2020 21:27
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I definitely don't think theaters are gonna die. Theater companies might but even if that happens Disney or Google or whoever will buy up abandoned theaters and start Theater Wars or something.
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Oct 7, 2020 02:34
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I do not underestimate a corporation's ability to turn it around with like theme park theaters or something. They'll buy up a multi plex and make each theater a MCU, Harry Potter, or Star Wars one and make a billion dollars or something. But if they don't Google or Amazon will or something. Once we get to a place where people want to go to theaters there will be standing theaters and rich corporations to buy them.
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Oct 7, 2020 02:58
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Nipponophile posted:The problem with theaters dying that I haven't seen anyone mention yet is the knock-on effect to the movie industry. Do you think we're still going to get summer blockbusters without the summer theater crowds? Will studios fund $100 million budgets when they're not confident they can make that back in a weekend or two of box office receipts? But that seems like the fundamental reason why I don't think the industry is gonna die. The replacement isn't sufficient. So even if the pandemic keeps going, the companies die out, and the theaters go cold they're still standing there and there's still a way to use them to make a ton of money and a reason for the studios to want to keep making that money. The idea of the theater business being dead just doesn't seem realistic to me unless we just think the pandemic is never ending. In which case it seems kind of secondary because we shouldn't be going to the movies anyway..
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Oct 7, 2020 05:19
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I hadn't really thought that much about the implications of Peter's identity being out there. And like I started thinking about that and the obvious threat to May thing but then realizes that while it sucks its a lot better than in the classic comics stories because May knows already and Peter and May have all those Stark/SHIELD/Avengers connections. And then somehow that got me to a place where I just started imagining Marisa Tomei and Gwenyth Paltrow as wine mom besties giving Peter a hard time and now I want that.
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Oct 8, 2020 20:59
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To be honest I feel like the reason I never gave it a lot of thought is because Peter just hasn't been around long enough or had enough stuff outside the Stark/Avengers world for it to really hit home about how his identity being revealed affects him. Like intellectually I go "oh poo poo" but I'm not sure I feel it and feel like any kind of One More Day reset will have a huge impact. I don't know. I'm not sure what I want to see out of that. Except May and Pepper becoming wine best friends and over moming Peter.
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Oct 9, 2020 14:43
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theironjef posted:When that stinger scene dropped all I could think of was the battle in Endgame where the moment he arrives he just pops his mask off in front of two armies. Like yeah you're probably not gonna get sold out by a Ravager, Wakandan, or spare wizard, but it's not like that fight happened indoors or something, any number of civilians could have been drawn to the sound of fighting and spaceships and junk. I mean, no one knows who Peter Parker is besides Tony, Happy, and Pepper and I doubt there were a lot of onlookers with their phones out in the middle of a battlefield. And I doubt Wong took a second to take a selfie in the middle of the battle. So I think it was probably ok.
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Oct 9, 2020 17:54
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SlimGoodbody posted:People will miss a guy dancing in a gorilla suit if they're looking too closely at a layup in a high school basketball game. I think it's fair to assume no one was paying attention to the specific facial details of the squeaky white boy who took his mask off for a minute in the middle of the most catastrophic and high stakes war to ever occur in all of history. "Check out that army of freaky aliens, and holy crap an army of soldiers, gods, wizards, and Avengers coming through magic portals! Holy crap that massive spaceship! Wait, that little guy took off his mask! I'm gonna use the 3 mile zoom on my phone!"
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Oct 10, 2020 00:05
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MCU's definitely gonna do Young Avengers.
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Oct 17, 2020 00:10
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That would be my hope for it. I'm not too bothered by people saying it starts bad since I suspect if its ANY good it will be in a second half "twist" of embracing the demonic/horror stuff. But I've got pretty low expectations for it. Hulu's Marvel stuff hasn't been great and its basically just some weird thing that survived the old MCU shift into the new one.
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Oct 18, 2020 02:59
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Yeah, that's the low expectations. Like I don't remember Runaways ever getting out of first gear. But I'll probably convince myself to sit through it in the vain hope something will happen.
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Oct 18, 2020 03:08
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There's been some speculation that Falcon/Winter Soldier could be setting up a Masters of Evil/Thunderbolts thing too. Although it seems to be entirely speculation based on casting and the ambiguous reasons for its delay. I get why Marvel hasn't done it. They've been focused on Thanos and the big event and most of their stand alone villains got merced. I think there's a couple of natural avenues for it now with a Thunderbolts idea or Masters of Evil. And Spidey doing a Sinister Six thing could work in a film or two, especially with his identity exposed.
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Oct 22, 2020 14:00
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I mean, I think you answer it for yourself. I can see why coming off one major villain and heading into another major villain you wouldn't want to do one with a bunch of second rate guys, most of whom wouldn't have even been introduced yet. Ultron's a classic Avenger's villain, he made for easy storytelling paths to Vision and the Stark/Infinity War stuff, and you theoretically keep up the momentum of major threats demanding the Avengers come together. It makes sense on paper. I don't think Masters of Evil/Thunderbolts really made thematic sense until the end of Ultron when we get that second version of the Avengers. I think that's for me when the idea started to expand past the Justice League/Pantheon of Gods thing you have with Cap/Iron Man/Thor/Hulk. Once you have a team made up of War Machine, Vision, Scarlet Witch, and Falcon I think the doors feel more open and I buy the Avengers as just an actual team rather than a team-up. I also think Masters of Evil/Thunderbolts makes a lot more sense now that we have Disney+ so you can build up B and C characters and storylines before moving them to film.
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Oct 22, 2020 15:47
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I understand why some people don't like origin stories but I think the MCU was pretty methodical about building its world and at the point of Avengers 2 it didn't really make sense for a bunch of rando super villains to emerge from nowhere to pick a fight with the team of god like heroes who just fought off an alien invasion. Its just an odd thematic step that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Like forget justifying why a bunch of supervillains would team up to pick a fight with the Avengers, how many "super villains" even existed in the MCU at that stage? Could it have worked? Probably. But I get why their instinct was to get another big villain presenting a global threat rather than to suddenly jump their world a huge step forward for a seemingly lesser threat. For better or worse that approach has worked for MCU and the opposite approach has resulted in stuff like Justice League and Suicide Squad.
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Oct 22, 2020 16:25
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There's that but like, at that stage I don't think the MCU even had a lot of dead ones. Iron Man - Iron Monger Hulk - Abomination Iron Man 2 - Whiplash and Hammer Cap - Red Skull Thor - Loki Iron Man 3 - Uh... Not Mandarin? Thor 2 - Some space elves. Cap 3 - Hydra Its still farly early in the MCU when Avengers 2 rolls around. I guess if you kept everyone alive you could have done a team up of Iron Man's enemies and Abomination led by Skull or Hydra or something but there was really no precedent at that time for bad guys to put on suits and start picking fights. Unless everyone idolized Mickey Rourke.
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Oct 22, 2020 16:35
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| # ¿ May 13, 2024 11:31 |
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Ugly In The Morning posted:I mean, if you're going for "why not do it instead of Ultron", Cap 3 hadn't come out yet so no Ross, Zemo, or Ghost. And by the only movie that came out after Ghost debuted was Endgame, which was no time for a villain team up. It could have been done but it made sense to make the story "ok, the Avengers are starting to disassemble since the world threat is gone and... opps, new world threat!" That could have been Hydra and a team but I don't think there's any mystery why they went with an iconic Avengers villain. I would definitely loved to have see Tim Roth back, though.
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Oct 22, 2020 17:10
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