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SKULL.GIF posted:Ahahah I think a lot of it is really how stupid the job training opportunities are for being a coach, and that compounds the good ol' boy poo poo. You've got to network your way into a job, you've got to pay dues that essentially involve poo poo pay and worse work hours(although the former is better these days), and even then a lot of the positional coaching jobs are basically dead-ends. Patrick Spens posted:Coaches are (almost universally) former football players, whether they stopped in college or made it to the pros. If white players are make the transition to coaching at much higher rates than black ones, the explanation is likely rooted in racism on the part of people hiring and mentoring prospective coaches. I think part of the issue is that you disincentive former successful players from getting into coaching because the pay sucks so bad. A quality control coach is making practice squad pay.
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Feb 11, 2021 03:21
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:format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/22290043/Nepotism.png)
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Being a coach means working 100 hour weeks for way less pay than you did as a player.
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Feb 11, 2021 03:24
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Being a coach means working 100 hour weeks for way less pay than you did as a player. your body doesn't get demolished each week though
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Feb 11, 2021 03:38
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Being a coach means working 100 hour weeks for way less pay than you did as a player. Not if you are one Ryan, Rex.
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Feb 11, 2021 03:48
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ketchup vs catsup posted:your body doesn't get demolished each week though Ehh, as someone who's done 100 hour work weeks it still does in a different way
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Feb 11, 2021 03:48
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fsif posted:Not if you are one Ryan, Rex. Remember a couple years back when the two brothers were caught on tape randomly throwing punches in front of a restaurant?
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Feb 11, 2021 04:09
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No one remembers but Rivera was turned down for years and was only hired because he was cheap and willing to be a co-head coach with Chudzinski.
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Feb 11, 2021 04:11
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give teams that hire black head coaches/coordinators/GMs a salary cap exemption equal to their salary
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Feb 11, 2021 04:13
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indigi posted:give teams that hire black head coaches/coordinators/GMs a salary cap exemption equal to their salary Jerry Jones would abuse the gently caress outta that.
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Feb 11, 2021 04:15
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Nodoze posted:I don't buy the Bienemy doesn't interview well and his... checkered past isnt the real problem. Bowles was already a bad HC once (but he will get a second chance) and Leftwitch is like one year into coaching i mean the texans literally interviewed josh mccown, an active player, for their coaching position before even considering calling leftwich (who had two years as a qb coach for arizona and has been an oc for two good offenses in tampa for two years running) it's dumb that a league focused on hiring young guys in hopes of finding the next sean mcvay refuse to even look at byron leftwich
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Feb 11, 2021 04:36
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fartknocker posted:Jerry Jones would abuse the gently caress outta that. That's the point. Hell, after Culley got hired by the Texans Baltimore replaced him with two black coaches at WR coach and passing game coordinator. I'd bet the two 3rd round picks they're getting from Culley influenced that somewhat.
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Feb 11, 2021 04:43
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You could revoke the Anit-Trust protection. Why should NFL owners as a group enjoy legislated Anti-Trust protection when as a group those same owner are so clearly operating against societal norms? That remedy has the added bonus of pulling into harms way the broadcasters which are a major source of funding for those owners. gently caress with their purse strings and see how fast they change vs public decries of unfairness. Given that getting congress, a bunch of old white dudes, to actually act seems unlikely, but it's a nice thought. Just the threat, if credible, seems likely enough to cause action on the part of the owners.
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Feb 11, 2021 18:19
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quote:Only 8.7 percent of the 242 offensive coordinators were Black This is the real crux of the problem. There are simply not enough black coaches being promoted into the positions that are stepping stones to becoming a HC candidate. I would like to know how many of the white offensive coordinators are either... 1. Multi-time retreads who have bounced around between teams, getting a never ending chance at yet another OC job every season. 2. Sons of coaches with connections. Cause I bet that accounts for the majority of OCs. And if you could get rid of those idiots you would have a huge number of positions suddenly opened for more deserving coaches - and not just black! - who have better ideas.
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Feb 11, 2021 18:27
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If you’re lucky enough to be named Brian Schottenheimer you get to be 1 and 2
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Feb 11, 2021 18:38
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The Puppy Bowl posted:That's the point. Hell, after Culley got hired by the Texans Baltimore replaced him with two black coaches at WR coach and passing game coordinator. I'd bet the two 3rd round picks they're getting from Culley influenced that somewhat. The system works!
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Feb 11, 2021 18:44
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White owner hires white GM ----> White GM hires white coach ----> White coach fills his staff with friends and one black person ----> Minimal black coaches in the NFL. It really stems from the top because of how nepotism works. It's also the reason why lovely rear end HCs like Hue Jackson get snapped up by every black head coach. You have to stick together in this current system of lovely rear end Rooney Rules bringing in non-candidates just to fill a quota. The most egregious thing about it in my opinion is how little slack black coordinators get before getting banished to joke leagues or college. Look at Pep Hamilton. A guy with his pedigree would have been handed jobs over and over if he was white but because he's black he had to slum it in the XFL league before being given a shot again. Meanwhile total poo poo coordinators like McDaniels keep their jobs and become HC candidates. You can say it's because of the Patriots but if that dude was black you know he would have been gone by now. I like what they're doing with incentivizing minority hires in coaches now. Punishing teams monetarily for not hiring black coaches was one of the dumbest things the NFL ever did. Basically gave teams a 200-500k fine for being racist which is less than the equivalent of one minimum contract. Now they're awarding 3rd round compensation picks which is nothing to scoff at. Teams will give up an arm and a leg to move back into the top 100 sometimes and I'm interested to see what will happen with teams like the Bucs who have a 'dynasty' going and have to refuel with the draft. That's of course assuming that other teams will actually start hiring black people which as you can see we're a long way away from still.
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Feb 11, 2021 18:49
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Obviously there are NFL teams ran by racist front offices and racist owners, but I think the biggest "ism" preventing the hiring of black coaches seems like it isn't racism but rather cronyism and nepotism. But maybe I'm just being naive.
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Feb 11, 2021 18:52
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:Obviously there are NFL teams ran by racist front offices and racist owners, but I think the biggest "ism" preventing the hiring of black coaches seems like it isn't racism but rather cronyism and nepotism. But maybe I'm just being naive. Every owner is at least as racist as the rest of the people in their cohort, and if you want to think about how racist your average billionaire is it is every bit as egregious and anachronistic as you can imagine.
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Feb 11, 2021 18:56
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a neat cape posted:The league is like 75% black And this isn’t an equally significant issue for all the other races because...? In other sports there’s little link between being a top player and being the best coach - frequently the top coaches didn’t even reach the top league or got injured out of the game young - so they may have 10+ years experience over any successful player of the same age by 35. There’s also the fact that most wealthy retired players don’t want to work lowly coaching jobs for years when they’re already rich. Not being able to run a 4.4 40 doesn’t make you a worse coach, but does stop you getting into the NFL as a player. I’m sure there are coaches being passed over unjustly, but I think people calling for some dramatic, disproportionate quota of coaches to be black to mirror the player pool need to step back and apply the same thinking to other races employed in other industries. And then realise that racial quotas are ridiculous and racist.
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Feb 11, 2021 19:19
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:This is the real crux of the problem. There are simply not enough black coaches being promoted into the positions that are stepping stones to becoming a HC candidate. I agree. I do think racism is playing a part, but I think it's nepotism that's the real culprit here. Not to downplay racism since lol it's the nfl of course there's racism. But I think the issue is more coaches hiring friends and family and the few outsiders are ex headcoaches (who are predominantly white) because "hey the problem was they couldn't run the whole team, not one side of the ball". Edit: okay nm, there's a dude who's now arguing affirmative action is the real racism so I'm backing out
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Feb 11, 2021 19:30
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Like how many times is someone like Bill Lazor going to waltz into yet another OC job despite being completely mediocre at best?
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Feb 11, 2021 19:34
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wooger posted:And this isn’t an equally significant issue for all the other races because...? What the hell you absolutely do not have to do so and you absolutely shouldn’t
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Feb 11, 2021 19:35
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:
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Feb 11, 2021 19:36
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wooger posted:Not being able to run a 4.4 40 doesn’t make you a worse coach, but does stop you getting into the NFL as a player.
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Feb 11, 2021 19:36
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Nick Jr. Face posted:no it doesn't Even when it probably should 
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Feb 11, 2021 20:18
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:Obviously there are NFL teams ran by racist front offices and racist owners, but I think the biggest "ism" preventing the hiring of black coaches seems like it isn't racism but rather cronyism and nepotism. But maybe I'm just being naive. I feel like you can't really excise the role racism plays in the particular makeup of the cronyism, though.
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Feb 11, 2021 20:37
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I cannot let this injustice stand. Josh McDaniels is absolutely easily one of the tip top most very best OCs in the league. You can talk poo poo about him as an HC all you want but the McDaniels years have all been the best pats offenses. And its not just Brady, he did terrific with a busted cam and 0 receivers this year. e: McDaniels is the motherfucker responsible for getting a team to trade a 2nd for the Matt Cassel, you clod!!!! Magicpants fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Feb 11, 2021 |
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Feb 11, 2021 20:42
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wooger posted:And this isn’t an equally significant issue for all the other races because...? gently caress off
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Feb 11, 2021 20:47
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Magicpants posted:I cannot let this injustice stand. Josh McDaniels is absolutely easily one of the tip top most very best OCs in the league. You can talk poo poo about him as an HC all you want but the McDaniels years have all been the best pats offenses. And its not just Brady, he did terrific with a busted cam and 0 receivers this year. dude's the second-longest tenured coordinator in the NFL, and he'd be the longest-tenured if not for that ill-fated Broncos run, he has to be doing something right
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Feb 11, 2021 20:54
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wooger posted:And this isn’t an equally significant issue for all the other races because...? Sir, your take appears to be on fire.
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Feb 11, 2021 21:14
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Magicpants posted:e: McDaniels is the motherfucker responsible for getting a team to trade a 2nd for the Matt Cassel, you clod!!!! I would describe the person responsible for this as Scott Pioli, and use the word motherfucker much more vehemently about him.
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Feb 11, 2021 22:24
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wooger posted:And this isn’t an equally significant issue for all the other races because...? racist against whom?
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Feb 11, 2021 22:27
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ItohRespectArmy posted:racist against whom? I think you know his answer.
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Feb 11, 2021 22:39
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:I think you know his answer. i do but I think if he's gona have that take he should atleast have the guts to say it.
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Feb 11, 2021 22:44
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wooger posted:And this isn’t an equally significant issue for all the other races because...? it absolutely is; however, in addition to the pointedly anti-black history of US business, the overwhelming proportion of black players in the NFL necessarily elevates their particular struggle with getting top coaching/FO jobs in the public eye. if the league were >75% latine or polynesian, there'd (hopefully) be a similarly vocal outcry regarding their job opportunities. wooger posted:In other sports there’s little link between being a top player and being the best coach - frequently the top coaches didn’t even reach the top league or got injured out of the game young - so they may have 10+ years experience over any successful player of the same age by 35. nobody said anything specifically about "top players" receiving coaching opportunities. there's no cries for Ed Reed or Randy Moss to become position coaches or coordinators (although I'd love to see coach Moss' press availability). I think you're having an argument with somebody who doesn't exist, here. even charitably assuming you mean "top player" as "anyone who reached the NFL," former college or high school players are still a majority black demographic, so this point falls apart under any scrutiny whatsoever. wooger posted:I’m sure there are coaches being passed over unjustly, but I think people calling for some dramatic, disproportionate quota of coaches to be black to mirror the player pool need to step back and apply the same thinking to other races employed in other industries. nobody but you said anything about a quota. every discussion about the topic in this thread has been about ways to incentivize owners, GMs, and HCs to give more black people the opportunities they've been denied thus far, not compel them to. in conclusion, lol go gently caress yourself you racist piece of poo poo
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Feb 11, 2021 22:44
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What is the current pathway system for former players? Is there one? I know with the NRL out here they have programs here where players as they reach the end of their careers can start to go to coaching meetings etc and provide in put into certain things if they want to become coaches. So they start while they're still playing and usually end up in a mentoring role with the junior leagues to start with. So you go from player/consultant to mentor/consultant with a feeder team to assistant coach with the feeder team and up from there. It's proven to be pretty successful with a whole lot of players transitioning into assistant roles and eventually head coaching ones.
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Feb 11, 2021 22:58
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BlindSite posted:What is the current pathway system for former players? Is there one? Not an official system no. Usually they're a noted player at some college who is not good enough to make the draft get picked up someplace as a graduate assistant for a bit to position coach or analyst. Somewhere in there they make a friend who is friends or family with an actual NFL coach somewhere that brings them in or are the friend. It's extremely nepotism.
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Feb 11, 2021 23:04
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There is a sort of official program: https://operations.nfl.com/inside-f...ing-fellowship/ quote:Applicants must meet one of the following prerequisites to be considered for the fellowship:
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Feb 11, 2021 23:08
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BlindSite posted:What is the current pathway system for former players? Is there one? Glancing at the Lions because they have a bunch of these guys. Dan Campbell: interned for a year doing something or other for the Dolphins, then TE coach Duce Staley: started as a special teams QC coach for the Eagles, the lowest of the low coaching job. Like you just sit there for hours on end grinding special teams tape looking for tells. Aaron Glenn: GM for an indoor football league team for a year > personnel scout for the Jets > Assistant DB coach for the Browns Mark Brunell: first coaching job is this one as QB coach as far as I can tell. Oh he had high school experience Hank Fraley: straight to OL coach for the Chargers in 2012 Yeah it's just all over the place for players who were good enough for me to remember them playing past college. As Ches noted for a lot of the career coaches they started out as grad assistants at a college somewhere. Grittybeard fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Feb 11, 2021 |
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Feb 11, 2021 23:12
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Grittybeard posted:Glancing at the Lions because they have a bunch of these guys. Brunell was an assistant football coach at Providence School in Jacksonville, Florida in 2012. In January 2013, Brunell became the new head football coach and program director at Episcopal School of Jacksonville. He was head coach of Episcopal up through this year until Campbell nabbed him for the Lions.
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Feb 11, 2021 23:15
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