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SKULL.GIF posted:Brunell was an assistant football coach at Providence School in Jacksonville, Florida in 2012. In January 2013, Brunell became the new head football coach and program director at Episcopal School of Jacksonville. Was editing in the high school experience that I'd missed (and managed to screw that up the first time too, ha). But I'd imagine high school to NFL doesn't happen without him being a known player. So in this case being a player seemed to help him get a job, but that doesn't seem universal at all.
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Feb 11, 2021 23:19
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For Brunell, I also seem to recall he was well regarded as a mentor-type backup during the latter part of his playing career, for what that’s worth.
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Feb 11, 2021 23:25
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Yeah, Patriots coaching staff from last year had a pair of former players: Players RB/KR - Troy Brown - Retired in '08, bummed around doing local media and stuff, did the coaching program in 2016, then got hired by the Pats in 2019. ILB - Jerod Mayo - Retired in '15. Hired by Pats in 2019. Nepotism: WR - Mick Lombardi. Kid of Mike Lombardi, yep. OLB - Steve Belichick. Yep Safeties - Brian Belichick. Oh you know it Lol: OL - Cole Popovich. A very, very distant relative of Gregg, was hired before he knew that. CB - Mike Pellegrino - Would you be surprised to find out he's a former professional lacrosse player?
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Feb 11, 2021 23:27
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fartknocker posted:For Brunell, I also seem to recall he was well regarded as a mentor-type backup during the latter part of his playing career, for what that’s worth. He also played on a torn ACL because god told him to. Get ready Texans fans.
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Feb 11, 2021 23:27
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Racism is a huge problem at the NFL head coach level and all through the coaching pipeline, and a reckoning is long overdue. That said, it bothers me a little that Bienemy is one of the key names in that reckoning now. On the surface his past is certainly problematic and it's reasonable to feel that his current success under Andy Reid doesn't outweigh that history. If you want to make the argument that lovely white guys like Matt Patricia get head coaching opportunities despite their past transgressions, the focus should be on that double standard. It doesn't necessarily mean that Bienemy deserves a shot now, it means that Matt Patricia never did. The solution to that isn't to give Eric Bienemy a head coaching gig, it's to promote other people of color who don't have that baggage, while making character concerns disqualifying for white guys too. At the same time, systemic racism puts Bienemy's legal troubles in a different light. It's pretty hard to say he's really more problematic than other potential candidates, and he's clearly an excellent offensive coordinator. I'm sure teams have taken a chance on less promising white people who have done worse than a few speeding tickets, shoving a firefighter, or harassing a woman in a parking garage. That's stuff that often won't even enter the legal system when a white person does it. It's hard to untangle past and present racism and his coaching potential. But I think guys like Pep Hamilton, Todd Bowles, Byron Leftwich, hell even Jim Caldwell and Marvin Lewis have been done more unambiguous wrong. They just don't get as much press because they haven't had the same level of coaching success.
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Feb 11, 2021 23:39
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I think the racism is far less a factor nowadays versus the cronyism and nepotism, but that all stems from the omnipresent good ole boy mentality of old. There are so many retreads from long dead coaching trees and sons and nephews and poo poo filling up the coaching ranks. The 3rd round pick rule is a good way to help with that but maybe there need to be more direct former-player-to-coach pipeline programs from the NFL. Would really help the diversity plus ideally also eliminate so many head coach failsons from keeping jobs
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Feb 12, 2021 02:02
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You'd probably get a big improvement in hiring diversity if the NFL simply enacted a no nepotism rule. The issue itself is systemic racism, whereas the attempts to find a solution are neoliberalism identity politics.
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Feb 12, 2021 02:18
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How would you enforce a no nepotism rule? The obvious first step is don't let people hire family members or relatives of their family. But after that? What if you hire your friend's kids? People you worked with? Studied with? LaFleur hired Joe Barry in large part because he'd already worked with him before, not because he's actually good or anything. They aren't related at all. But Barry got his start as coordinator for his father in law's team. LaFleur famously came up the ranks alongside Kyle Shanahan. Can you meaningfully recorded that out?
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Feb 12, 2021 02:51
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:Obviously there are NFL teams ran by racist front offices and racist owners, but I think the biggest "ism" preventing the hiring of black coaches seems like it isn't racism but rather cronyism and nepotism. But maybe I'm just being naive. Nepotism and cronyism is still a direct result of racism. Those bonds that were formed by ancient coaching trees and football families were ones born of a league that didn't want to play with black people. They may have integrated in 1920 but there's an obvious reason they didn't have a black head coach until 1989.. This means that those guys who came from the Walsh, Parcell, Ditka, and to a further extent Halas, Landry, and Paul Brown were raised in a time where black people were barely accepted as athletes, let alone managerial positions. You're surrounded by like minded people and bam, you get the current nepotism and cronyism today with less overt racism. The sons of coaches who were originally handed their position with barely any competition from other races. SKULL.GIF posted:How would you enforce a no nepotism rule? The obvious first step is don't let people hire family members or relatives of their family. You don't, nor should you. Nepotism is how pretty much everyone gets hired in a world of 7.5+ billion people. It just becomes inflammatory when it represents old money. I don't blame the Schottenheimers or Belichicks of the world for riding their dad's coat tails. Hell, they may be really good or even better than contemporaries because they grew up in the environment. What I do blame is the segregation that lasted way too long in the NFL. Hell, look at the NBA. Once the 60s hit about a third of all players were black and by the 80s about a third of all coaches were black. They've been so far ahead of the curve from the other major sports that now you see nepotistic hires among black coaches all over the place on almost the same scale as the NFL. The best you can do with the NFL is make a better Rooney Rule, which they're trying to do, and let the years go by for it to take fruition.
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Feb 12, 2021 03:14
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Asproigerosis posted:You'd probably get a big improvement in hiring diversity if the NFL simply enacted a no nepotism rule. The issue itself is systemic racism, whereas the attempts to find a solution are neoliberalism identity politics. imagine thinking that trying to solve the racist glass ceiling in NFL hiring is "neoliberalism identity politics". imagine being that loving stupid
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Feb 12, 2021 03:30
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If you want to get teams to stop hiring only whities, build a formula based on minority hires in your organization, say something like 10 for a GM / HC / TP, 5 for an OC / DC, 3 for a QB coach, 1 for ST / other major position coaches. Then take a chunk of revenue, equal to some modest % of the cap and dole that out in a weighted order based on the #'s from the formula. Becomes a self correcting issue. if most teams are loaded with minority coaches, then the salary cap stays even, if the league has like 3 black HC's and 1 GM, then those teams are getting enough cap space to sign an extra star player, so go gently caress yourselves. If you hate the idea of using cap space and revenue, then replace the comp pick system with this.
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Feb 12, 2021 03:31
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what does the nfl think about poc who are not black and is there a difference in how they perceive white-passing poc, as well. 5th and 7th round comp picks respectively?
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Feb 12, 2021 03:36
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You're gonna see a shitload more of the 1/128th Cherokee bullshit.
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Feb 12, 2021 03:38
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Minnesota is a pretty good example of nepotism being a thing, although I kinda get it with Klint Kubiak. There's been six OC's in six years and there's an unsurprising desire to have some continuity on the offense. Still, he's complete untested at running an offense so who knows. The evidence of racism is shown by what's missing. The percentage of players who are the "Not good enough to be a starter but they love the game and so they go into coaching" should be equal across the player base regardless of skin color. The fact that it's not shows that there is an issue.
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Feb 12, 2021 03:41
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You know society is in a good state when you get “nepotism isn’t that bad unless it is also tied to racism” takes.
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Feb 12, 2021 04:17
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Kalli posted:If you hate the idea of using cap space and revenue, then replace the comp pick system with this. I’m okay with the latter option. The comp system is dumb as gently caress now, but rewarding teams for doing good staff stuff with some extra picks would be cool.
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Feb 12, 2021 04:26
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a patagonian cavy posted:imagine thinking that trying to solve the racist glass ceiling in NFL hiring is "neoliberalism identity politics". imagine being that loving stupid
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Feb 12, 2021 04:31
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Would you like a summation of the problems in football: https://twitter.com/brucefeldmancfb/status/1359914380712792070?s=21 An rear end in a top hat who is good at coaching (who “retired” after he went to bat for a domestic abuser on his staff) hires an rear end in a top hat who is good at S&C (who got the boot after a decade’s worth of black former players came out to talk about him being a racist rear end in a top hat as part of larger complaints about the athletic department as a whole), and I guarantee you there are plenty of black S&C coaches or coaches who are equipped to run that post who won’t get a shot. I thought I couldn’t possibly hate Urban Meyer any more than I already did but giving this shithead another shot in the pros is definitely a good way to go further down in my book. https://twitter.com/bso/status/1359956073478647808?s=21 Edit: I’m sure the jags already have plenty of trouble getting players to sign with them what with the being terrible and run by assholes and actively getting yelled at in public by the NFLPA but there’s no shortage of Iowa players in the NFL who are probably gonna be actively warning people that if they go to Jacksonville to watch out for the Strength coach. Bitter Iowa fans would tell you it was only guys who didn’t like how much time they got or felt they were underused but James Daniels is both well respected by the Hawkeyes and a fairly successful NFL player and he was very open about his negative experiences. DC Murderverse fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Feb 12, 2021 |
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Feb 12, 2021 05:26
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I am glad brandon staley has hired a diverse staff
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Feb 12, 2021 05:27
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King Hong Kong posted:You know society is in a good state when you get “nepotism isn’t that bad unless it is also tied to racism” takes. I'm trying to think of a good coach whose dad coached in the NFL other than Kyle Shanahan. The ultimate example of a coach's son is Belichick, but his dad topped out at the college level and BB had to climb up the ranks himself. David Shula, Rob & Rex Ryan and Brian Shottenheimer are or were awful.
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Feb 12, 2021 05:32
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Wade Phillips? Maybe not as HC, but he was a good coach for a long time.
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Feb 12, 2021 05:36
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King Hong Kong posted:You know society is in a good state when you get “nepotism isn’t that bad unless it is also tied to racism” takes. Nepotism is always bad and you missed the point on purpose I think
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Feb 12, 2021 05:45
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Grittybeard posted:Wade Phillips? Maybe not as HC, but he was a good coach for a long time. Better coach than his dad, really. And I loved Bum Phillips. This is weird to me, because I remember Bernie Parmalee as always being mentioned with about six other Dolphins RBs as examples of "this is why Marino never got a ring" https://twitter.com/Jaguars/status/1359910193803460612
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Feb 12, 2021 05:54
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Urban responds with the characteristically tone-deaf horseshit you'd expect https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30882524/jacksonville-jaguars-urban-meyer-defends-hiring-controversial-chris-doyle quote:Meyer said he researched Doyle, had some intense conversations with him, and is confident that there will not be problems. His defense is literally "well, I know the guy"
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Feb 12, 2021 05:58
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I just really dislike that an NFL coach is named “Klint”
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Feb 12, 2021 13:14
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nah posted:I just really dislike that an NFL coach is named “Klint” it is a terrible name
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Feb 12, 2021 13:30
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nah posted:I just really dislike that an NFL coach is named “Klint” There isn't one. There is one named Kliff, though.
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Feb 12, 2021 14:16
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Mr. Nice! posted:There isn't one. There is one named Kliff, though. Klint Kubiak, son of former hc Gary Kubiak, is the new oc for the vikings.
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Feb 12, 2021 14:56
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Mr. Nice! posted:There isn't one. There is one named Kliff, though. Klint Kubiak
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Feb 12, 2021 15:04
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I was thinking head coach and got confused. Klint is indeed a horrible name.
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Feb 12, 2021 15:19
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Hoop Dreams posted:Klint Kubiak, son of former hc Gary Kubiak, is the new oc for the vikings. Thankfully his middle name is Alexander.
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Feb 12, 2021 18:22
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Right now I'm hoping this guy finds out that life's a lot harder when you can't use you position of authority to bully a bunch of teenagers. And then gets "Hey, Nick!"-ed by all the jags players into oblivion.
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Feb 13, 2021 00:45
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Achernar posted:Right now I'm hoping this guy finds out that life's a lot harder when you can't use you position of authority to bully a bunch of teenagers. And then gets "Hey, Nick!"-ed by all the jags players into oblivion. Think he deserves the Geno Smith if he tries it
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Feb 13, 2021 00:59
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Is Director of Sport Performance just the NFL title for an S&C coach?
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Feb 13, 2021 01:02
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GD_American posted:Is Director of Sport Performance just the NFL title for an S&C coach? The Browns have a "director of high performance" and a Head of S&C. Think the performance guys are in charge of some of the wearable tech stuff that you see.
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Feb 13, 2021 01:25
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OK. I just wondered if he was gonna be the guy screaming to do more reps, or if he was gonna be riding a desk.
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Feb 13, 2021 01:33
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I think something that's kind of overlooked a little bit too is that an NFL headcoach is in charge of over a hundred people and it's also why coaches often don't make good GMs. That's a lot of people to be responsible for and there has to be a level of trust when it comes to who you choose to be in charge of the smaller groupings. You're obviously going to naturally gravitate to a known quantity rather than taking someone who you've never worked with before. I'm not saying this is a justification for not looking to fill the assistant roles under guys you trust with people you may be unfamiliar with but I think a lot of what can be chalked up to as nefariousness is also done simply because people don't think "who can I give an opportunity to" and more "oh god, I don't want to gently caress this up who do I know that can at least do the job. It makes sense as to why someone might hire their son, or someone they came up under as an assistant to be their defensive coordinator for example rather than someone they've otherwise never met or worked with. A lot of people raised questions about Rhule brining along Phil Snow to be his DC when he was hired because he's simply not that storied as a coordinator, but he's someone Rhule knows won't second guess him, will be loyal and is basically just a known quantity. Conversely Rivera when he came to Carolina kept Ron Meeks (the former defensive coordinator) on board as his DB coach wanting to keep some continuity but had to fire him (I believe mid season) because there was a significant amount of white anting and second guessing going on behind the scenes. I don't know how you address that or combat that but there's 0 way you can tell coaches you can't hire people you trust.
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Feb 13, 2021 04:08
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BlindSite posted:I think something that's kind of overlooked a little bit too is that an NFL headcoach is in charge of over a hundred people and it's also why coaches often don't make good GMs. That's a lot of people to be responsible for and there has to be a level of trust when it comes to who you choose to be in charge of the smaller groupings. You're obviously going to naturally gravitate to a known quantity rather than taking someone who you've never worked with before. I'm not saying this is a justification for not looking to fill the assistant roles under guys you trust with people you may be unfamiliar with but I think a lot of what can be chalked up to as nefariousness is also done simply because people don't think "who can I give an opportunity to" and more "oh god, I don't want to gently caress this up who do I know that can at least do the job. The reasons for cronyism and nepotism are not a mystery that needs to be solved. We already understand it. What needs to happen is greater incentives for hiring practices that actually reward merit regardless of who you know - or what you look like. The 3rd round pick thing is a good start.
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Feb 13, 2021 04:29
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BlindSite posted:I think something that's kind of overlooked a little bit too is that an NFL headcoach is in charge of over a hundred people and it's also why coaches often don't make good GMs. That's a lot of people to be responsible for and there has to be a level of trust when it comes to who you choose to be in charge of the smaller groupings. You're obviously going to naturally gravitate to a known quantity rather than taking someone who you've never worked with before. I'm not saying this is a justification for not looking to fill the assistant roles under guys you trust with people you may be unfamiliar with but I think a lot of what can be chalked up to as nefariousness is also done simply because people don't think "who can I give an opportunity to" and more "oh god, I don't want to gently caress this up who do I know that can at least do the job. Tldr (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 13, 2021 04:56
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I mean a manager of a Costco is in charge of over a hundred people too but they don’t exclusively hire their friends and children to run the produce section.
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Feb 13, 2021 05:31
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