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so the guild is the only group that can travel between planets because of their navigators right, and they need spice to do so. and there was mention of spice quotas not being met because of the fremen attacks. so it makes sense that the guild would happily buy spice from smugglers to fill the gap especially if it was being sold for less than the harkonnens.
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Mar 22, 2024 22:03
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Glorgnole posted:i would like to ask that someone please come up with a clever dune pun so we can retitle the thread. current title has been in place since before the first denis dune. would you still love me if i was a worm?
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Mar 22, 2024 22:03
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polyester concept posted:so the guild is the only group that can travel between planets because of their navigators right, and they need spice to do so. and there was mention of spice quotas not being met because of the fremen attacks. so it makes sense that the guild would happily buy spice from smugglers to fill the gap especially if it was being sold for less than the harkonnens. yup, plus the guild is effectively sovereign. everyone in dune 1 is theoretically a subject of the emperor but he's got very little actual power compared to the harkonnens/guild/choam/bene gesserit
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Mar 22, 2024 22:04
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haveblue posted:not wrong but I brought up the middle east because herbert admitted he intentionally paralleled OPEC plus the man cribbed hard from 'the sabres of paradise' so yeah lots of the basics are not really spun out of whole cloth
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Mar 22, 2024 22:05
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rjmccall posted:right, so how is this useful anywhere. why would you focus on naval power — not space naval, actual naval — in a universe where presumably all significant military disputes are interplanetary. do you just pay the guild to airdrop your entire fleet into place so you can blockade your enemy’s seaports https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYsumX7Or-c
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Mar 22, 2024 22:06
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quiggy posted:yup, plus the guild is effectively sovereign. everyone in dune 1 is theoretically a subject of the emperor but he's got very little actual power compared to the harkonnens/guild/choam/bene gesserit basically like danish kings in the middle ages until early modern times, and many other germanic/non-primogeniture areas i expect. kings had power as elected by the nobles. though it was generally the oldest son, he was only king at the mercy of the nobility. many times, oldest was a failson or a radical, so instead the kingship went to a nephew or a daughter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haandf%E6stning cf also how much power the east india company had in british politics, etc Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Mar 22, 2024 |
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Mar 22, 2024 22:11
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speaking of succession laws, dune uses a form of agnatic or salic primogeniture - female line descendants are excluded from succession this is why Jessica disobeying orders is a big deal
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Mar 22, 2024 22:21
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hobbesmaster posted:speaking of succession laws, dune uses a form of agnatic or salic primogeniture - female line descendants are excluded from succession what line of succession? baron harkonnen wasnt even aware she was his daughter (and she wasnt either) and she was leto's concubine, not his wife/duchess she has no right to any title unless columbo shows up Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Mar 22, 2024 |
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Mar 22, 2024 22:23
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Carthag Tuek posted:would you still love me if i was a worm?
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Mar 22, 2024 22:26
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half right. jessica disobeying orders is less of a big deal for the future of house atreides than for the future of the bene gesserit. what was supposed to happen was that jessica has a girl and then pauline atreides is mated to feyd-rautha harkonnen to produce the kwisatz haderach a decade or two later. the bene gesserit have been anticipating this for centuries and are set up to control this child from birth. jessica choosing leto's desires over her orders threw this off. this is why mohiam, through the emperor, ordered baron harkonnen to spare paul and jessica (which he technically did, in the most evil way possible) on the hopes that it could be recovered somehow. the plan is then thrown into even further chaos when feyd challenges paul to a fight to the death. and is then utterly destroyed when he loses and it becomes clear that paul is already the KH
haveblue fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Mar 22, 2024 |
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Mar 22, 2024 22:26
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quiggy posted:five long years the emperor kept the family atomics up his rear end 
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Mar 22, 2024 22:29
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lmbo
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Mar 22, 2024 22:29
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Carthag Tuek posted:what line of succession? baron harkonnen wasnt even aware she was his daughter (and she wasnt either) and she was leto's concubine, not his wife/duchess. Jessica only bearing daughters means Leto doesn’t get an heir actually I see what you’re saying, the confusing thing is that Leto never married and made Paul legitimate but there was a plan for Leto to marry somebody so it doesn’t make sense to make that call 16 years ago (or I didn’t catch if they aged Paul up). I can only assume that Leto somehow decided that his “real” heir can only come from true love or some such?
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Mar 22, 2024 22:34
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hobbesmaster posted:Jessica only bearing daughters means Leto doesn’t get an heir ooh ok same page now. yeah i think leto was just so much in love (film) or affected by jessica's bene gesserit pussy power (book? been a while) that he was like okay im gonna legitimize my bastard son that was a thing in denmark as well, "lyse i kuld og køn", where youd go to the thing (you know, the thing) and declare the kid your own. then they get full inheritance, etc. otherwise nothing
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Mar 22, 2024 22:40
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wait is paul actually the KH though (i somehow thought he was just the final precursor) i refuse to read any sequels
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Mar 22, 2024 22:43
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Yes he is. That part is in the first book
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Mar 22, 2024 22:43
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both paul and Leto II are explicitly referred to as both being kwisatz haderachs it would make some sense if Leto II was the only real one and in children he does seem to find some sort of “higher” understanding even before his metamorphosis but frank wrote that they both count
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Mar 22, 2024 22:46
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cool, I realize that's potentially a major misunderstanding but somehow I'd thought it was the KH that turns into a worm and thus equated the two anyway I really want to see someone turn into a worm e: okay I buy that too
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Mar 22, 2024 22:46
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hobbesmaster posted:both paul and Leto II are explicitly referred to as both being kwisatz haderachs *kwisatzim haderach
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Mar 22, 2024 22:48
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thank you
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Mar 22, 2024 22:49
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hobbesmaster posted:thank you shukran
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Mar 22, 2024 22:51
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The kwisatz haderach is a male reverend mother. Women only have access to their ancestral female memories/personalities, but men would have access to both the male and female lines for some reason Herbert leaves unexplained. This would make the kwisatz haderach fully clairvoyant (hence all the questions to Paul about dreaming of things that later happen). All of the men who have tried the reverend mother ritual were killed by it. The breeding program is trying to create a male who is strong enough to survive it and become a super reverend mother, so that the bene gesserit can use his powers for their devious plots.
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Mar 22, 2024 22:53
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regarding the ritual: the candidate drinks poison and then, through supreme control over her own physiology, changes it internally into a non-toxic form. it doesn't have to be done with sandworm goo -- that's just what they use on arrakis because it's available and has religious symbolism. on other planets without sandworms the bene gesserit obviously use other poisons. my question: is the orgy always a part of it, or was that added by the fremen? does the candidate just have to neutralize the poison, or does she also have to turn it into space E and barf it up so all the other sisters can get it on?
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Mar 22, 2024 23:03
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I keep forgetting if it’s “the” or “a” kwisatz haderach the real question that raises is what is ghani. other than too cool to be in any book for a significant period of time
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Mar 22, 2024 23:04
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kwisatz haderach means something like "the seer of the way," re his clairvoyant abilities, so presumably there can be more than one if they get more than one dude who can survive the ritual. but The kwisatz haderach will be the first one ever
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Mar 22, 2024 23:07
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the more that is explained about dune the less it makes sense
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Mar 22, 2024 23:07
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Eeyo posted:the more that is explained about dune the less it makes sense he is not the one ...
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Mar 22, 2024 23:10
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Eeyo posted:the more that is explained about dune the less it makes sense hi moneo
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Mar 22, 2024 23:11
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frank actually borrowed the term kwisatz haderach from the jewish kabbaladune wiki posted:It's likely that the term was borrowed by Frank Herbert from the Kabbala. The compilation of Jewish mysticism the core of which is entitled HaZohar (The Book of Splendor) ascribed to Rabbi Shimon bar-Yohai, ascribed by Jewish people to have been written in the 1st century C.E. Modern scholars ascribe it to a sephardic Jewish author around the 13th century. The term itself is Hebrew, "K'fitzat ha-Derekh", (קְפִיצַת הַדֶּרֶךְ) literally, "The Leap of the Way," by means of which an initiate may travel some distance instantaneously, appearing to be in two or more places at once.
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Mar 22, 2024 23:26
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/workshopping memes for Elon A picture of Lynchdune Gaius Helen Mohiam with the caption He's Not The Messiah, He's A Very Naughty Boy
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Mar 22, 2024 23:37
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*extremely fremen accent* how shall we gently caress off, lisan al-gaib
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Mar 22, 2024 23:40
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polyester concept posted:it's been a few days since I watched dune 2 but I can't stop thinking about the visuals. everything was so on point and satisfying. so menacing. even small things like how their laser weapons were continuous beams of light rather than the typical PEW PEW projectiles you see in sci-fi. I remember thinking the same thing in the first part, when the bombs were slowly penetrating the ship's shields. just a delight to watch. it's so good
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Mar 22, 2024 23:51
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elon: go gently caress yourself  everyone: lmao did he just try to use the voice? sounds like a big crying baby wtf? did you tell him to do this?? im gonna post this on Z - the actual future platform
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Mar 22, 2024 23:53
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Mar 23, 2024 00:14
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quidditch hattrick
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Mar 23, 2024 00:45
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rjmccall posted:quidditch hattrick  i hate this
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Mar 23, 2024 00:48
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FAT32 SHAMER posted:but the empire still runs on Duncan 
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Mar 23, 2024 01:01
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Eeyo posted:the more that is explained about dune the less it makes sense
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Mar 23, 2024 01:39
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the thousand sons of Idaho and nine daughters of Siona would seem to indicate that “marry” doesn’t work out well
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Mar 23, 2024 01:40
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rewatched “guns akimbo” last night, it’s a dumb but entertaining indie action movie. kinda uneven in spots but worth a watch imo
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Mar 23, 2024 02:09
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