Cuties: Another 2020 Controversy, Brought To You By Netflix

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Cuties: Another 2020 Controversy, Brought To You By Netflix

Starks: Sep 24, 2006

sexpig by night posted:

Yea that last review really sums up how absurd this all is. The movie is actually quite conservative in values and the entire point is the over-sexualization and rush to 'grow up' is bad and maybe we should just let kids be kids for a while. If it was a white mormon rear end movie it'd be on that godawful 'Pureflix' site or whatever and half these right wingers would be demanding to know why the sicko libs aren't nominating it for an oscar or whatever like they do whenever Sorbo makes a movie.

Franchescanado posted:

However, many brave viewers who have seen the film, are willing to defend it, saying it handles it's heavy controversial topics with care, and that most of the talking points about the film are being manipulated by media or internet users who would rather stir the controversy with accusations rather than watch or ignore the film.

This is all irrelevant. The issue many people have with the movie is not from an analytical perspective. To me and many others it's a labour issue - they really hired 11-year-old children and really made them act out these sexual scenes. I think that that's wrong no matter how powerful or effective the message. I don't need to watch the movie to know that they did this.

The whole thing has personally convinced me that we shouldn't be using child actors at all.

I also disagree that it's "politicized". The first people I saw posting about it on Twitter were leftists and it's not like I've seen any Democrat politicians come out in support of it.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2020 14:46

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 18:40

Starks: Sep 24, 2006

Franchescanado posted:

But to assume a 12 year old is--what? too stupid? too dumb? too immature?--to know the levels of the project that they're involved with really removes their agency

lmao yes? they have no agency they're 11 dude. That's why we assume they're too dumb and immature to vote, drive a car, smoke cigarettes, etc.

when I have a kid I'm going to get them to "establish trust" with the foreman and have a discussion with them so they can work on the floor of a toyota plant. Labour laws exist for a reason and the movie industry has been getting a pass, given their history with children I think it's about time we took that pass away.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2020 17:41

Starks: Sep 24, 2006

luxury handset posted:

i think you're confusing "agency" here for "consent".kids cannot legally consent to many things but they certainly have the agency to understand things like dancing, or even inappropriate sexy dancing if it were explained to them

No I don't think I am? Here's what google gives me: "Agency is defined as the capacity of individuals to act independently and to make their own free choices". Children don't have that freedom for their own safety because their brains are literally not developed enough to understand the consequences of their own decisions.

Read this thread by Mara Wilson. Do you think the children understand that they will end up on CP websites? It was wrong for the director to cast them in this movie, and I think that even without the sexualization it's wrong for people to profit off the work of children.

https://twitter.com/MaraWilson/status/1304883825789423616?s=20

It's funny that someone brought up Taxi Driver because they absolutely should've used an older actress for Foster's character. We know now that Scorcese's behaviour towards her on set was abhorrent, and at the time the his defense was "We went through all the precautions to ensure that the actress and her parents were comfortable with the environment". The same thing people in this thread are saying.

Starks fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Sep 14, 2020

# ¿ Sep 14, 2020 18:15

Starks: Sep 24, 2006

sexpig by night posted:

Also using Mara Wilson's thread as proof that the movie is exploitation is kinda rich, she herself said she's not really sure how she feels about it and her entire point was SHE got on child porn sites doing nothing but kid's movies, unless you think Matilda was also secret pedo code. The issue is how society treats women, even in their childhoods, and that issue is a lot deeper than 'movie bad'.

Also the best way to fight that issue is to, you know, give space for women who have dealt with that exact conflict to tell their stories and speak to others, like this movie does.

I didn�t say it�s proof the movie is exploitation, my point was that there�s no way the children have the �agency� to understand these complicated feelings that child stars wrestle with well into adulthood, and that it�s not right to put them in this position. I think the story could�ve been told in a way that didn�t use twerking 11 year old actresses.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2020 18:45

Starks: Sep 24, 2006

Franchescanado posted:

It's not someone; it was me, the person you are arguing with; the one who explicitly said "exploitation does happen, it's a constantly evolving situation as these situations become public".

As for the Mara Wilson thread, I just don't really have an answer for it. You're right, a 12 year old child may not be able to think about every disturbing way their performances may be perverted, but, again, they have to have parents or guardians who do think of those things, sign off on the children. That still doesn't mean a child doesn't realize what they are signing up for in their performance.

What you're positing is, sadly, inescapable. I've heard adult female actors I admire say they found photoshops of them in bondage, rape fantasies, WikiFeet, etc. Showrunners, artists and animators get sat down at the beginning of their show or whatever being published and get told "Rule34 exists. We are going to show you what can and will happen to your characters," and then proceed to show them Rule34 stuff. This is true of any type of character, whether a bipedal rabbit with breasts or, like, Dexter from Dexter's Lab. Look at what happened with Mrs. Incredible last year.

I bring this up not in defense of it, it's literally the inherent risk of being a content creator, including acting. And I understand the individual choice of saying "I wouldn't let my child be an actor." I wouldn't want my child (I don't have kids, mind) being a child actor until they're done with high school. But I also loved acting as a kid, and did plays and theater and dreamed about being in movies, and while fame or fortune aren't good goals for a child, learning the skills of acting, performance, team work, and everything else that goes into the artistry of acting, is valuable to a child.

But what you're saying is really a bigger problem with society. Society and internet culture allows a space for perversity to flourish. Mara Wilson was Matilda and the little girl from a few Robin Williams movies, she never did a movie like Cuties, and she was still a victim. Saying "She was too young/dumb/stupid/ignorant to predict that she would be sexualized" is still victim-blaming. And your solution is "No more art that involves children." Which would still, in order to avoid what you're saying, involve no more animated films either. Which feels like a complicated, impractical band-aid to a bigger wound. You're saying "Let's stop making art that pedophiles/sexual deviants/disturbed perverts can masturbate to!" Why not put the same effort into arresting/rehabiliting sexual deviants and making sure they can't harm children or make art that makes them victims. It just seems like a really backwards solution that ignores the actual problem.

It's certainly a bigger discussion beyond Cuties, even though as a film it is inherently going to be victim to that process.

Personally I really don't think you need to go as far as banning any depiction. Just no children working in movies. Like I said, the use of child actors is already an exception to child labour laws; all we need to do is take that exception anyway. If you're too young to work at the GAP then you're too young to be in a movie, it's that simple.

Anyways I take everyone's point that this is larger than the scope of the thread so I will drop it.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2020 19:05

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 18:40

Starks: Sep 24, 2006

edit: gently caress it actually not taking the bait

# ¿ Sep 14, 2020 19:33

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Cuties: Another 2020 Controversy, Brought To You By Netflix