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TrixRabbi posted:The other film Cuties draws to mind is Little Miss Sunshine, which ends with a provocative dance performed by the family's young daughter that's played for a mix of laughs and discomfort but also iirc lacked as pointed a commentary as Cuties does (I haven't seen it since like 2007 fyi). And that movie was nominated for Best Picture! Yeah it comes completely out of nowhere and is goofy as poo poo and the scene is her family joining her to dance to stick it to the audience. The scene in Cuties is more like when they would do Saw movies, and everything sees the drill coming towards the eye and is expecting it to cut away, but it doesn't and just shows it all in its horrific glory. I'd love for the director to say something like "yes, all sorts of female child pageants/dancing contests need to stop existing" and wait for the response from all the republicans to claim that Southern Beauty Pageant culture is 100% different and none of those children are being exploited.
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Sep 15, 2020 02:03
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I saw a good comment somewhere else with someone pointing out that children don't spontaneously develop sexual awareness at 15/16 they know about it from a fairly young age and will explore to understand it. Scenes with 12 year old boys talking about boobs are a staple of gross comedy hi-jinks and the movie Good Boys featured exactly that. The fearmongering over the girls doing such things like talking about blowjobs, watching porn, etc. comes from a mentality that wants to pretend young girls are essentially asexual until they hit the 15/16 age range which is coincidentally the same age that all these adult men think is an appropriate age for them to consent to sex. The few people discussing it in good faith are the same ones saying "this is a movie parents should watch with their preteen daughters and explain the issues b/c if those girls have smartphones they already know about all this stuff anyways" poo poo, look at this from 1994 quote:Milk Money is a 1994 American romantic comedy film directed by Richard Benjamin and starring Melanie Griffith and Ed Harris. The film is about three suburban 11-year-old boys who find themselves behind in "the battle of the sexes," believing they would regain the upper hand if they could just see a real, live naked lady. The real issue is less about child exploitation and more the recurring message "girls don't think about sex, until they're old enough to have sex with adult men, in which case they are 100% fully informed to consent"
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Sep 17, 2020 01:54
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EA Sports posted:Being supportive of the actors, having psychologist there, making sure the girls are as comfortable shooting the scenes as possible, does that keep them from feeling used and exploited? does a simple talk with a psychologist really heal the feeling of being This can apply to literally any female child actor in any role ever portrayed in media, and it doesn't even have to just be the preteen girls told to show off their feet on nick shows because Dan Schneider was a pedophile foot fetishist. Mara Wilson made the point that all the people who want to use the words like "exploited" about cuties don't really seem to have a problem with a culture that both incessantly serializes female children in a regular manner and also expects them to be wholly ignorant of any sexual identity until they are of age to consent to sex. https://twitter.com/MaraWilson/status/1304883825789423616 https://twitter.com/MaraWilson/status/1304885731916017664 https://twitter.com/MaraWilson/status/1304886220745371648 Going back to the well of "these poor girls are suffering so much damage from being exposed to this" is such an extremely patronizing and paternalistic view. This is the experience of women and girls in media (and in life) and has been since media consumption became a thing. Quit with the bad faith bullshit of how fragile and vulnerable these little girls are. They aren't china dolls you keep on a shelf and protect, they are living human beings capable of learning and understanding and taking that away from them is exactly what causes the problems the film presents. pentyne fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Sep 17, 2020 |
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Sep 17, 2020 09:30
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EA Sports posted:As a male, if i became a trending topic on a porn site after doing some magic mike routine in a movie, i would feel very betrayed. betrayed by my parents, the adults that choreographed the scene and all of the people involved with it. Maybe don't speak "as a male" when making sweeping declarations about the female experience in media and life. I can't imagine a more bad faith argument then declaring "well, IF I was harassed, I'd feel this way and so should they" when you're a man. As for "scenes used that way", Mara Wilson explained it perfectly clear she played completely non-sexual saccharine roles in kids movies and was subject to sexual harassment by grown men over it. You think there has to be some specific threshold of performance at which women and girls in media will feel "betrayed" by the "response" and the reality is the very moment they appear on camera they are going to get that "response" in some form or another. Seriously, you're doubling down on this patronizing tone and a paternalistic attitude of how bad this girls will feel based on your view, as a man, of what harassment will feel like. News flash they know what it feels like and it's something they are going to have to worry about and face for the rest of their lives regardless of being in a movie or not.
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Sep 17, 2020 09:55
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EA Sports posted:Though I'm a man I was sexually harassed when i was younger. starting since I was 12. groping, impromptu lapdances, getting called over to peoples cars. even some gay men were brave enough to flirt with me. I know my experience is atypical, but I still wouldn't fell comfortable with millions of people being forced to leer at me in a movie. if my parents pressured me to do this in hopes of stardom and them some psychologist plied me to be comfortable with it i would look back on the whole situation feeling betrayed by society. So based on your story, your experience with sexual harassment is what almost all girls and women, actors or not, can expect to be on the receiving end of in their lives? the actresses in the movie don't have a monopoly on being "betrayed by society" its something every girl can expect to learn growing up, again a MAJOR POINT OF THE FILM. You seemed to have a vendetta against psychologists the way you phrase them as some master manipulators forcing these girls to do something they didn't want to as well as implying they were forced into by abusive parents. Every statement you make reduces the girl actors to having 0 agency or understanding of what they are doing, like they are a poor little faultless goose harmed irreperably by being exposed to these concepts. And you keep ducking the main point. Girls can act in a kids movie wearing parkas and overalls and still get leered at and harassed. This movie isn't suddenly going to turn people into pedophiles and there's not some required amount of sexualized behavior that suddenly sets off someone who wouldn't have done it before. You really keeping hammering that this movie is going to be the source of endless misery in these actors lives. Not the fact that, you know, they are going to be women (some of color) and face no shortage of racist and misogynist treatment in all societies regardless of said film. That's where the patronizing and paternalism comes in, you're refusing to acknowledge that this film is merely representing what already exists in society, wildly inappropriate sexualization of young girls and the attitudes towards it. You present it as a problem created by the film specifically and that actresses should feel betrayed for being allowed to take part in it. Debates about the effectiveness/appropriateness of the content are valid, but trying to dismiss it as some parent forced, head shrink manipulation is extremely gross and borderline misogynistic. People don't have this debate about 11 year old boys in films watching porn, talking about sex, and being exposed to naked women, that is apparently all youthful hijinks that cause no harm or damage. However when its young girls, its some horrible thing that damages them for life. pentyne fucked around with this message at 11:49 on Jan 1, 2021 |
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Sep 17, 2020 11:46
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punk rebel ecks posted:When on Earth has this thread implied that the oversexualization of young girls is a cultural issue from people who "don't speak English"? It's a very common thing for conservatives to portray young women of color as somehow sexually enticing and problematic for morally upstanding men. When you get 13-17 year old poc girls abused/raped by adult men quite often the idea of "well she's plenty experienced so nbd/just some temptress" is tossed around. It adds another layer of hypocrisy to this movie. The pagent/dance culture in the US is heavily white, and you get very similar behavior to what happens in cuties but those things are treated as wholesome learning experiences for beauty competitions. EA Sports posted:Mara wilson never trended on pornhub, asmuch as her experiences sucked. lots of people who are sex/porn addicts or predatory are going to get off on this stuff, just as most kids aren't even molested by pedophiles, but by predatory people Like Franch said, you are saying some wildly unacceptable things here, assuming that sex/porn addicts mean they must desire young children, that most people molesting children aren't pedophiles? and advocating eugenics in the same sentence as referring to poor English speakers? That's very troubling no matter what you believe. In addition, predators don't need their target to be "sexy" enough to go after them. You keep focusing intently on the idea that the depiction of sexual behavior is what triggers these people to commit crimes; it's like saying only attractive people need to worry about being raped. You keep talking around the point, seeming to assume that literally everyone involved was dead-set on abusing the children and creating a conspiracy theory level of coercion and brainwashing to effect it. This is some Pizzagate/Qanon level ranting and seems to reflect your own issues more then anything real. Naked contempt for brainwashing from therapists is also very unhelpful as talk therapy doesn't give the therapist the power to force people to behave certain ways. You're obviously checking out playing the "well I'll banned for arguing with a mod" card but there are very real, substantive problems with how you are looking at and explaining your position on this matter. Assuming bad faith on behalf of literally everyone but the girls performing is extreme but not wildly unreasonable given decades of treatment in the entertainment industry. However then focusing so intently on how the dancing is going to be what triggers someone to harass/abuse the girls and not the mere fact that all females in the entertainment industry will deal with it regardless brings the focus back to "it's only a problem when they are sexy enough" pentyne fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Sep 17, 2020 |
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Sep 17, 2020 19:08
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Panic! At The Tesco posted:It's doing a huge disservice to hand wave away perfectly legitimate criticism from some people just because a bunch of far right nuts have latched onto this controversy. The whole world doesn't revolve around the American left vs right thing. I don't think someone using phrases like "forced by greedy parents" and "brainwashed by psychologists into accepting it" is making legitimate criticism.
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Sep 17, 2020 20:15
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Panic! At The Tesco posted:I wasn't talking about anyone in particular in this thread or otherwise. It's more something I've noticed as I've read discussions on the film. I'm not defending or excusing those right wing nutters either (there are definitely some idiots who are using it as a political tool and making poo poo arguments like in your examples). I was just pointing out that a lot of people have decided that anyone who isn't cool with the film must be one them. It's so rife with bad faith arguments it's hard to be clear who is just saying "nah this sucks" and who is trying to make political hay over it. The first viral twitter video was the ending dance scene edited down to remove the crowd reactions showing disgust and shock and presented as "this is what hollywood liberals want". Further major critiques mention how the girls talk about sex, discuss penises, trying to get a pic of a guy in the locker room, the main character posting a nude on IG, etc. all things that are explicitly condemned as abusive and pedophile-adjacent for the mere act of showing the girls have sexual awareness and curiosity absent any sort of healthy educational perspective from responsible adults in their lives. There's definitely a strong argument to be made about art vs exploitation when the art is blatantly depicting it for that reason, but the vast majority of the discourse is "lol hollywood pedos" and politicians trying to grandstand about "saving ur children".
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Sep 17, 2020 21:04
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It's also a sad reality the foreign nature of the film and the race of the actresses are certainly a factor. Many comparisons have been made to shows like Dance Moms and other reality pageant shows that depict a culture that places extreme importance on the percieved attractiveness of female children for the purposes of competition. The southern belle pageant culture is constantly described in terms like "wholesome" and "harmless" I would go so far as to say raising female children up in a practice by where they are rigourously judged for their appearance and perfomance from age 5 and up is vastly more harmful to children then anything this movie could ever do.
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Sep 17, 2020 22:35
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Horizon Burning posted:"The guide has since been changed to accurately describe the movie, which only briefly shows the bare breast of a woman, who is not underage, dancing in a video, according to a Forbes viewing of the movie. (IMDB did not immediately respond to a request for comment, and a Netflix spokesperson confirmed the film does not contain any underage nudity)." What? You mean major aspect of this movie have been deliberately lied about to push a narrative? Shocking.
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Sep 18, 2020 19:53
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Cut to a room full of old white republican men all emphatically insisting that while they 100% did not find it arousing because they are good Christians they all know plenty of degenerates who have told them they got excited watching it.
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Oct 7, 2020 03:38
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