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Most of those "Not street legal" things on aftermarket products are arse covering so you can't sue them if some anal cop takes offense to you offering them some donuts*. * freshly smoked on the ground in front of them at your local Walmart.
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Oct 20, 2020 13:07
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Steve French posted:Yeah, I'm starting to think that a carb replacement is not going to be as much of a short term savings over a more long term solution as I had hoped. Summit MAX-efi 500, $750: FITech Fuel Injection GoStreet EFI 400 HP Throttle Body System Basic Kit $858 (currently $818 w/ instant rebate) FITech Fuel Injection Go EFI Classic Black 550 HP Throttle Body System Basic Kit $912 None of these include the fuel pump/sump or fuel lines. The FITech kits are available with fuel pump and ignition. FITech Fuel Injection GoStreet EFI 400 HP Throttle Body Fuel Injection Master Kit [with Inline Fuel Pump & CDI Box] Natural Aluminum $1257 FITech Fuel Injection GoStreet EFI 400 HP Throttle Body Fuel Injection Master Kit [with Force Fuel System & CDI Box] Natural Aluminum (fuel module with pump inside surge tank.) $1412 Other combos and options here: https://www.jegs.com/p/FITech-Fuel-Injection/FiTech-GoStreet-EFI-400-HP-Throttle-Body-Systems/3539375/10002/-1 Looks like the Sniper is $1100 by itself, ~$1400 with fuel pump, and $1600 with ignition. No option for both in a kit. https://www.jegs.com/p/Holley/Holley-Sniper-EFI-Stealth-4150-4-bbl-Self-Tuning-Kits/8033244/10002/-1 One nice thing about the Sniper is that the ECU is integrated into the throttle body - no separate box to mount (it's hidden in one of the "float bowls") MSD has their Atomic EFI at about $1100, too ($1300 with fuel system) The MSD controller seems a little cheap to me. Monochrome backlit LCD. The rest appear to have color touchscreen controllers. FITechs, and the Summit uit appear to use the same controller - interface even looks the same. Edlebrock makes complete port injection systems that include the EFI, intake, fuel system, and ignition, BTW. About $2500 for the whole shebang. https://www.jegs.com/p/Edelbrock/Edelbrock-Pro-Flo-4-EFI-Systems/3649794/10002/-1 I'm a little salty that they cover AMC and Pontiac, as well as the usual SBC, BBC, LS, Chrysler big and small, and Ford big and small, but not Olds or Buick. Fascists. I happen to have two Cadillac Seville EFI intake manifolds, and a set of fuel rails. The Seville used an Olds 350, so I'm set, there. Just need a fuel system, throttle body, ECU... I've been wanting to go MegaSquirt, but the Holley/Summit/FITech TBIs look very inviting. I would like something that could handle (eventual) boost, though.
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Oct 20, 2020 21:11
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If you go this way get an entire kit so you are not trying to get parts for a fuel system running under high pressure. I know the Holley kits come with Earl's Vapor Guard hoses to run the feed and return rather than using the ones that came on the car for the carb.
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Oct 20, 2020 21:15
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Yeah, I was just looking in a bit more depth into the holley sniper master kit. I'm thinking at this point that at the very least, it's more of a project than I'll be able to tackle in the next couple of weeks, including some fuel system modifications that I am not yet entirely comfortable with. So I think my plan now is to focus on getting the starter fixed, and then doing a once-over of various components on the car to gain familiarity with the components and the condition that they're in, get the car into a state where it runs reliably (if not well) and safely (tires!), and then revisit the fuel system once I've done that.
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Oct 20, 2020 22:23
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One of the plusses of carbs is that they can run "OK" just fine. They can usually tolerate quite a bit of mis-tuning or suboptimal parts matching, if you're willing to put up with a little weirdness from time to time. I've lived with the nonfunctional accelerator pump on my Q-Jet for, oh, 30 years, I think. I'm not sure it ever worked under my hand. And the Q-jet has never been retuned despite the addition of headers, true duals, and a more aggressive cam. edit: honestly, to me, the hardest part about EFI is the fuel pump and new fuel lines. Especially for me, since an external pump is just not good enough. I'll be modifying the tank for an internal late model pump module than incorporates a swirl pot, so I don't have to weld one into the tank - just cut a hole and add a mounting ring. I can use the original fuel line as a return, but will need to run a new feed, and, again, *hose*, even braided, isn't good enough. The rest of the throttle body systems is mostly bolt on, and finding a 12V battery and ignition source. Darchangel fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Oct 21, 2020 |
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Oct 21, 2020 20:17
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 Having a summit retail location nearby is going to be either great or terrible, I think
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Oct 27, 2020 22:14
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Missed a page, dig this car
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Oct 27, 2020 23:34
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Krakkles posted:Missed a page, dig this car starter took up the whole page, most likely
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Oct 28, 2020 01:36
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Suburban Dad posted:starter took up the whole page, most likely is this a joke about the size of my photos? I've sorta stopped bothering to thumbnail or resize photos when posting, probably because I'm mostly browsing on my phone
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Oct 28, 2020 02:23
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Steve French posted:is this a joke about the size of my photos? I've sorta stopped bothering to thumbnail or resize photos when posting, probably because I'm mostly browsing on my phone Yeah but it's fine. Booze may have played a role in that post.
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Oct 28, 2020 03:23
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Steve French posted:
I'd like to get one of those for my Olds. The factory starter is yuuuuuuge. And very heavy. edit: I too have a Summit retail location nearby. They just built it a few years ago. It's amazing inside.
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Oct 30, 2020 18:28
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Those starters are clockable as well which makes getting aftermarket headers on so much easier.
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Oct 30, 2020 21:57
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Another option to look at if you haven’t already are the brawler carbs. They are essentially holley clones which the motor trend guys use quite often and seem to like. https://www.summitracing.com/search/product-line/quick-fuel-brawler-street-series-carburetors/part-type/carburetors?fr=part-type Or just go on Craigslist and get one for like $100. I have a edelbrock setup in my truck that I think I got for free from someone and it runs just fine.
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Oct 31, 2020 12:28
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Well, I went to put the starter on this afternoon while the kids were napping. It didn't pan out today, experienced the first (of many, I'm sure) chains of discovering problems. The first issue, and the one preventing the starter install, is that (somewhat ironically) the battery cable is too short to reach the starter now. So I went to remove it and noticed this situation on the negative cable:  and also noticed that the battery hold down is completely missing. Pulled the battery just to get it out of the way, and also found this terminal just sitting around loose on the battery tray  So I'll be buying new cables and parts for the hold down (maybe just a whole new tray kit if it's not much different price wise than the individual hold down parts), and then trying again.
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Nov 2, 2020 01:00
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That loose one looks like the kind you use to jump it or charge it easier. As a matter of course new battery cables are a good idea, and pretty cheap insurance.
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Nov 2, 2020 03:18
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That looks like the adapter terminal to use top post cables on a side post battery.
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Nov 2, 2020 05:04
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IOwnCalculus posted:That looks like the adapter terminal to use top post cables on a side post battery. Yup, that's exactly what it is. No clue why/how it was hanging around loose on the battery tray, though
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Nov 2, 2020 06:08
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Someone jammed a sidepost battery in it at one point years ago and didn't notice that they dropped an adapter when they went back to the right battery type? gently caress sideposts forever.
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Nov 2, 2020 16:16
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 Don't look at his battery cable then.
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Nov 2, 2020 16:50
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I voluntarily installed a DTS (top and side post) battery in one of my projects and I kind of like the side posts TBH. I'm using the top positive terminal and the side negative... Only reason I can see to not like it is if the threads strip out, but I've been careful so far and that hasn't happened. That battery cable looks pretty sad, especially the fender ground portion.
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Nov 2, 2020 18:33
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That post should be for testing and charging side terminal batteries. There is another style to actually convert them to top post terminals.
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Nov 2, 2020 18:56
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kastein posted:I voluntarily installed a DTS (top and side post) battery in one of my projects and I kind of like the side posts TBH. I'm using the top positive terminal and the side negative... I really like the idea behind side post batteries, so long as they don't corrode (which didn't happen with a trunk mounted battery with proper venting). Don't need to worry about the drat cables popping off or coming loose as the top post clamp stretches over the years. That said, the ones under the hood can go to hell. They get so much corrosion... I can pull both batteries cables off by hand on my current car with a top mount battery despite the bolts being as tight as they can go. If I take it on a rocky/washboard road at stupid speeds I often wind up popping a cable off, and I can tell because the gauges go apeshit and the stereo shuts off, and if the headlights are on, the ballasts get upset and start strobing the bulbs super bright. Always an instant "shift into neutral and kill the engine" moment since I know the alternator is pumping out 18+ volts at that point. Replacing the clamps would be too easy. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Nov 2, 2020 |
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Nov 2, 2020 19:30
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STR posted:
I didn't even notice that, what the hell kastein posted:I voluntarily installed a DTS (top and side post) battery in one of my projects and I kind of like the side posts TBH. I'm using the top positive terminal and the side negative... At one point I had a combo top/side post battery in my C10 because for whatever reason the "correct" one Firestone had on the shelf would not loving fit the hold-down. Never took the protectors out of the side posts. My Canyon has top-post terminals so somewhere along the line GM must have decided to start giving up on side-post poo poo.
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Nov 2, 2020 21:19
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The year is 1999, my paternal Grandmother lit up a seemingly 10' long cigarette her blonde perm wiggled as she bounced her cloven hoof foot to a rhythm only she could hear. Several times a widow she watched glazed over as my father lay drugged and bloated in a chair. He didn't have much longer on the earth - Her home was probably one of the coolest mid century modern homes, it was built in 1961 and had marvelous views of the San Fernando Valley. Time stopped in that house shortly after the untimely death of her third husband in 1973. The couches had yellowed plastic on them, - "you know Ma, Dan will be driving next year... why don't you give him your car.... you don't even drive anymore" - The car he was referring to was a 1970 Firebird formula 400 - it was yellow, with the same hood yours has, it had a white vinyl interior and a white vinyl top. It smelled like cigarette smoke and hairspray. She lived in the Hollywood hills and would drive the car once a week to the market and beauty shop and once a month to the republican women's club meeting. She would start the car up and put it in reverse out of her long winding driveway, once she got to the street she would put it in neutral and coast it down the hill. headed up the hill she would put the car in low and putt up the hill. When my dad was in better health we would occasionally take the car out and "blow the carbon out of it" - the fucker could move - It still had the Wide O val tires on it from new so my dad was a bit timid with it. I had fantasies of driving it to school, to the beach or even taking a girl out in it - My two cousins had kinda warned me about what was going to happen, as they both had made bids for the car over the years. My one cousin had recently fallen out of grace with her for dating a girl that wasn't white. The other cousin, a lawyer, later helped me change my last name. As the cigarette burned down she turned her nose up at me and said "I'd rather donate to Jerrys kids it than give it to him" - my dad looked at me with jaundiced, glazed over eyes and said "well there you go..."
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Nov 3, 2020 05:50
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Wish I'd seen this sooner! I had many old Pontiacs: 64 GTO, 64 Lemans, 66 Bonneville, 66 GTO, 67 GTO, 69 Firebird 400, 72 Formula 350, 72 Grand Prix. I could tell you about Q-jets, the flap on the secondaries is a spring loaded air valve, which you can adjust for when the secondaries kick in. I still have a q-jet from my old 455 if you have more specific questions.
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Nov 4, 2020 22:01
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Hermaphrodite posted:Wish I'd seen this sooner! I had many old Pontiacs: 64 GTO, 64 Lemans, 66 Bonneville, 66 GTO, 67 GTO, 69 Firebird 400, 72 Formula 350, 72 Grand Prix. I could tell you about Q-jets, the flap on the secondaries is a spring loaded air valve, which you can adjust for when the secondaries kick in. I still have a q-jet from my old 455 if you have more specific questions. Makes sense, though the air valve is missing along with other parts. If you think I’ve assessed that wrong, would you be able to point it out in my photo? Minor update after doing some more reading and realizing where the secondary code is marked on the head and realized why I was confused on the 5C; it’s a 5C-9, so originally from a 1975 400 and is 100cc rather than the 51-6 or 6H-6 with 124.5cc original to the engine
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Nov 27, 2020 20:33
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You're missing the choke (on the primaries), but the air door/flap on the secondaries is there. No telling what else is broken or missing.
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Dec 1, 2020 17:39
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Darchangel posted:You're missing the choke (on the primaries), but the air door/flap on the secondaries is there. No telling what else is broken or missing. Yes, I'm aware that the secondary choke is there; I was a bit imprecise in my last message. What I was not understanding, but I think I get now, is that the hot air coil that is missing only ever controlled the plates on the primary, and that the secondary plates would just open due to airflow/vacuum when the secondary throttle opens, and that it's maybe more or less functional (depending on spring tension etc)?
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Dec 1, 2020 18:44
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Steve French posted:Yes, I'm aware that the secondary choke is there; I was a bit imprecise in my last message. What I was not understanding, but I think I get now, is that the hot air coil that is missing only ever controlled the plates on the primary, and that the secondary plates would just open due to airflow/vacuum when the secondary throttle opens, and that it's maybe more or less functional (depending on spring tension etc)? Exactly, the secondary spring tension adjustment screw can barely be seen through the linkage on the rear upper passenger side of the carb, there is a lock screw underneath that holds the adjustment screw in place:  I forget the size but the lock screw is an allen.
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Dec 1, 2020 19:13
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Yeah, the plate over the secondaries is not a choke but a device to change the effective size of the secondaries on the fly. Well, technically... I guess it could be described as a choke, but is vacuum dependant rather than heat controlled. It's what makes a Q-Jet work on a fairly wide variety of engines and conditions/modification ranges, yet still deliver something resembling fuel economy. When it's working right.
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Dec 1, 2020 23:27
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Awesome, thanks a lot everyone, appreciate the insight. Had a few hours today so I figured it was time to finally get around to installing the new starter and battery cables. Observations: The clearance between the block and the alternator assembly sure makes attaching the negative cable to the block an annoyance. Not hard just slow. Also the lug on the end of the new cable is apparently a bit thinner, so bolt wouldn't actually fully tighten down onto it. I'll need to throw a washer on there I think. It still makes contact, but not snug. The clearance with the exhaust headers installing the starter, even with the compact summit racing starter, is tricky. Again a minor annoyance but realizing that with one bolt in, that the exhaust was blocking my ability to slide the second bolt into the starter was just nice. I started with no shims, to see what clearance looked like. Then realized that determining how much clearance I actually had was incredibly difficult; I couldn't get a good angle straight onto the interface at all. I could get a bit closer with my phone camera, but that's about it:  That said, it sure seemed like with no shims at all, that there was enough of a gap, if anything too much of one, but nothing I could really do about that. So I gave it a try. Seems to work just fine, none of that awful noise with the old starter, and I sure gave it plenty of chances to gently caress up; the fuel issues with the carburetor meant I had to crank it about 15-20 times before it was warm enough to idle. https://photos.app.goo.gl/e9BTLk5WfcwhDr5Q9 I'm still thinking more about what I want to do about the carb; one of the reasons I shied away from the fuel injection option in the near term was that I didn't want to deal with putting a return line into the fuel tank (and apparently ideally an in-tank pump is used, which was another hurdle). But then I realized a replacement tank that's already set up for EFI isn't really all that expensive, so I'm pondering that now. In the meantime, to get it at least driveable I need new tires, which means I need to make a decision about wheels. I don't like the rally wheels that are on it, and my father in law has a set of 15x7 honeycombs that I like a lot more, if I can get them in presentable condition (I have no idea what they really are like right now). I love the idea of some of the aftermarket alloy honeycombs, but they only come in 17", which I'm not really sold on, aesthetically, for the car. Currently leaning towards doing what I can with the free 15x7 honeycombs once I can get them, and getting some tires for those.
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Dec 7, 2020 02:23
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And here's the wheels. I think they seem in reasonably good shape, and the bigger question is whether I am personally capable of restoring them nicely. 
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Dec 10, 2020 01:33
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Those are pretty heavy aren't they? They called them "polycast", the honeycomb section is rubber or something else flexible.
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Dec 10, 2020 06:39
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Hermaphrodite posted:Those are pretty heavy aren't they? They called them "polycast", the honeycomb section is rubber or something else flexible. WTF? They look awesome, if they're alloy like nearly every other wheel in existence some quality time with mild abrasive power tools then careful masking and painting will improve them. Or pay to have them refinished, depends what your time is worth.
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Dec 10, 2020 09:26
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Those look like they require a fair bit of patience, but will look awesome when done.
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Dec 10, 2020 09:33
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cakesmith handyman posted:WTF? https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/polycast-wheels While looking this up I see that 17x9 aluminum repros are available for about $900/set.
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Dec 10, 2020 15:17
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Hermaphrodite posted:https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/polycast-wheels Yeah, these are the original polycast wheels. I strongly considered picking up the repros, since they'd perform better, open up tire choices a bit, and I like the sharper look of the real alloys. However, my father in law already had these wheels lying around, and my wife and I both think we prefer the look of smaller wheels; looking at photos of cars with the 17s. So I'm going to start with this; give a shot at restoring them the best I can, and if we decide down the line we'd rather have the repros we can still do that. Any tips for restoring them welcome; I figure cleaning up the steel parts should be fairly straightforward and then I need to be gentle with the polycast part. Googling around suggests tedious hand sanding or light sand/bead blasting to clean, then prime and paint. A lot of broken links to supposedly comprehensive guides, fantastic. I also decided to go with a replacement quadrajet carb for the time being, I'll be waiting a couple months for a build from https://quadrajetpower.com/ Finally, starting to look into replacing the fugly aircleaner with one that will actually make the formula hood functional. I don't know whether it would really impact performance that much, but getting that hooked up really appeals to me in principle.
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Dec 10, 2020 18:30
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I would probably use soda or walnut-shell blasting on the polycast parts. That should clean without damaging the urethane. They can look great. They're just heavy as heck, being a steel wheel with another 10 pounds of urethane rubber attached...
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Dec 10, 2020 18:38
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A steel wheel with a cosmetic injection moulded-on front - amazing, I've never heard of those before, thanks for the link.
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Dec 10, 2020 19:32
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Hermaphrodite posted:https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/polycast-wheels Interesting. My first car (93 mustang) had something like this and I never thought about it until reading this. I remember them being heavy as poo poo and having this rubbery stuff on the spokes. The little triple strips around the perimeter were rubbery and you could move them with finger pressure. Always thought it was really weird.  OP, those wheels look cool as heck and I'd want to keep them too. I can't offer much on getting them cleaned, but you might talk to some wheel refinishers who specialize in that stuff and see what they say. Suburban Dad fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Dec 10, 2020 |
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Dec 10, 2020 19:37
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