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STR posted:The transmission kickdown is a cable, not a relay or switch. It'll be a cable that connects either to the pedal or the carb (usually carb). Nah, it’s a cable on the TH350, but electronic on the TH400. Car doesn’t have AC anyway. 
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Sep 11, 2021 19:26
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That’s what I was thinking. You beat me to it.
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Sep 11, 2021 21:52
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Minor update: winter sorta kinda finally ended here so I spent some time this weekend with the car. Everything seems to be running well, but it was a bit dirty, and wanted to get the underbody rinsed better than I could at home, so took it through a local touchless wash that I knew would be a gamble. I got pretty wet, there's definitely a pretty poor seal between the driver door and the t-top. Oops.  Fiddled around more with the wiring for the door poppers; redid the really grossly done stuff from the battery to the relays and the controller. Passenger door worked fine, still not the driver door though. Could hear the relay so thought at first that it was just a problem with the wiring from the relay to the popper, or the popper itself, but then saw a drain overnight, so did some swapping of wires between the relays for passenger and driver door and while I still couldn't get the driver door working (confirming some issue with the popper or wiring), there was also definitely something wrong with the driver relay. Measured 88 ohms between the two switch pins, so I'll be replacing that and then working further to figure out the rest of the problems. Had a minor transmission fluid leak while in storage, fairly sure it was just due to not tightening the speedometer cable well enough, so did that and cleaned things off and we'll see whether that did the trick. Still seeing a slow oil leak as well, and spent some time cleaning the oil pan, removed the shield around the flex plate and cleaning under there, to see if I can tell where things are coming from (oil pan gasket or rear main seal?); yet to be seen but I didn't see any oil to speak of on the flex plate which I'd expect to see if the rear main seal was the problem? Either way that seems like an engine out project to fix so will probably be monitoring that until I feel up for that. In the meantime will be doing some smaller things and probably planning suspension overhaul since the bushings are all pretty shot.
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May 31, 2022 00:46
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If anyone has any recommendations on suspension replacement, or that I should just take the opportunity to do something more major and upgrade, or even that it should be done at the same time as some engine removal maintenance, I'm all ears.
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May 31, 2022 02:37
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Steve French posted:If anyone has any recommendations on suspension replacement, or that I should just take the opportunity to do something more major and upgrade, or even that it should be done at the same time as some engine removal maintenance, I'm all ears. Every rubber bushing is for sure way past it's service life. Do not put in spherical bearings. Stick with rubber, just new stuff. Maybe polyurethane but try and get rubber bushings if at all possible.
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May 31, 2022 02:40
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whats your goal? autocross? tighter high speed street handling? cushy road cruising? the best bolt-on (i.e. not a full subframe) stuff is the speedtech afx tall spindle with coilovers and tubular control arms, from what i remember. i didnt want to spend that kind of money so i pieced together some other stuff, but thats not generally what i would recommend lol the sky's the limit if you want to go fast McTinkerson posted:Every rubber bushing is for sure way past it's service life. Do not put in spherical bearings. Stick with rubber, just new stuff. Maybe polyurethane but try and get rubber bushings if at all possible. arent the modern delrin sphericals supposed to be 100% fine on the street? i hope so, cause i got a set for my car, lol. wont know for a couple years since it wont be drivable for a while, but ive read nothing but positive stuff if you want something that handles tighter than rubber
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May 31, 2022 02:46
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McTinkerson posted:Every rubber bushing is for sure way past it's service life. Do not put in spherical bearings. Stick with rubber, just new stuff. Maybe polyurethane but try and get rubber bushings if at all possible. Thanks, that’s helpful. What I’d read is to basically assume everything is garbage and replace literally everything except maybe the springs, which suits me fine, so that was my default plan, but open to different options in terms of what to replace with.
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May 31, 2022 02:47
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if you want to improve handling, imo the big things are these:
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May 31, 2022 02:53
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Raluek posted:whats your goal? autocross? tighter high speed street handling? cushy road cruising? Primary goal for now is to have the car in a state where I feel comfortable driving it and not worrying about old wear items falling apart. Secondary goal is to do a thing with a car in my garage. Performance after that, but I’d say mainly focused on somewhat but not terribly spirited road driving. I think my wife likes the idea of making it an actually fast car, which I’m willing to indulge, but just seems like such a long adventure to get it somewhere close to the RS4 we already have and can use for that. I want it for the project/driving experience enjoyment
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May 31, 2022 02:57
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I was looking at the speed tech kits earlier and haven’t yet quite made sense of them. Budget isn’t terribly much of a concern, so I’m happy to spend whatever gets me a good outcome, but unsure which of their options would make the most sense.
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May 31, 2022 02:59
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Steve French posted:Primary goal for now is to have the car in a state where I feel comfortable driving it and not worrying about old wear items falling apart. Secondary goal is to do a thing with a car in my garage. Performance after that, but I’d say mainly focused on somewhat but not terribly spirited road driving. I think my wife likes the idea of making it an actually fast car, which I’m willing to indulge, but just seems like such a long adventure to get it somewhere close to the RS4 we already have and can use for that. I want it for the project/driving experience enjoyment the ridetech streetgrip package might be worth looking at, in that case, as it's sort of a "refresh" kit without going all out with spindles and tubular arms and coilovers and stuff. i would guess it would handle significantly better than stock, but not as good as you could get it if you were replacing everything. replacing the rear leafs with a multilink coilover setup would be pretty cool, but idk how much the rear suspension is really limiting you right now Steve French posted:I was looking at the speed tech kits earlier and haven’t yet quite made sense of them. Budget isn’t terribly much of a concern, so I’m happy to spend whatever gets me a good outcome, but unsure which of their options would make the most sense. yeah i know what you mean. i spent like, 9 months researching all the suspension bits for my own car, trying to figure out what was worth doing for actual performance and what was just shiny. i ended up with sort of a hodgepodge, and i dont know yet how well it's going to work!
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May 31, 2022 03:10
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Nice thing with the A- and F-body GM cars is that there are a lot of options with regards to suspension. That's also the terrible thing. The two options previously mentioned seem solid and well-regarded, though. I *think* the second-gen F-bodies already have a lot better geometry than our early A-bodies, so he can just focus on bushing, spring, and shock replacement for the most part, maybe tubulars as Raluek mentioned, for adjustability. Hotchkis also makes some good relatively budget stuff. If sticking with rubber bushings, Moog should be the way to go - OEM quality.
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May 31, 2022 19:18
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Looking over what Speedtech, Ridetech, and Hotchkiss have, in terms of getting a full refresh without going nuts and switching out leaf springs for coils, it seems like Ridetech is pretty promising in terms of price and comprehensive upgrades. Poking at something like: https://www.ridetech.com/product/1970-1981-camaro-streetgrip-system/ with the control arm options as well https://www.ridetech.com/product/1970-1981-camaro-firebird-front-lower-strongarms-stock-style-coil-spring_11172199/ https://www.ridetech.com/product/front-upper-strongarms-for-1970-1981-camaro-firebird/ along with a steering kit https://www.ridetech.com/product/1970-1981-f-body-steering-kit-w-power-steering/ Does something like this seem reasonable? Would like to stick with bolt on, and I like the idea of doing the whole deal (front and rear springs and shocks, control arms, steering). From skimming the repair manual along with installation instructions for these, seems there's only a couple specialized tools I'd need? I have a ball joint separator already, and beyond that, a spring compressor, puller, pickle fork? If anyone has recommendations on additional tools I'd want, or specific versions of any of the above, would love to hear them. I'm strongly considering pulling the trigger on something soon, along with a bridge jack for the lift, with the intent on getting a lot of this done while my wife is out of town for a while at the end of the month.
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Jun 2, 2022 02:12
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Steve French posted:Looking over what Speedtech, Ridetech, and Hotchkiss have, in terms of getting a full refresh without going nuts and switching out leaf springs for coils, it seems like Ridetech is pretty promising in terms of price and comprehensive upgrades. looks good to me. you might consider looking at how much more it would be to upgrade to coilovers in front. it would involve a different lower control arm, and of course their coilover instead of the springs/shocks. looks like they don't sell a kit for that, weirdly, so it would be pieced together with arms + coilovers + swaybar + rear end stuff. would be easier to switch spring rates, or adjust ride height, or whatever in future. it is really only half a coilover, since the top fits in the frame pocket where the original spring went. if you're not gonna fuss with rates and shock adjustments and stuff, though, the kit you have is bound to be perfectly fine. one point in ridetech's favor is they are owned by fox shocks, so they're the only ones using fox stuff for classic applications. and at least a couple years ago when i was doing research into this, fox is the best monotube gas shock available for this kind of thing. if you do go ahead with ridetech stuff, i would suggest buying through Matt's Classic Bowties (mcbparts.com, sales@mcbparts.com). their website kind of sucks, but they are quite a bit cheaper than buying straight through ridetech or summit. and they set up a drop ship straight from ridetech. i think it was like 10% off across the board, or so? not huge, but it certainly adds up when you're buying a fat stack of gear. i found out about them via the pro-touring forums, so i PM'd them through there asking for a quote, but you can probably just email them with an RFQ and get quoted that way. i ended up getting quite a few ridetech bits for my chevelle, and they're all still sitting in my living room lol. so i can't say how well it goes together. but the fit and finish seems very good!
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Jun 2, 2022 04:17
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Detroit Speed has the (half) coilover kit in non-, single, and double-adjustable, and even remote reservoir. https://www.detroitspeed.com/products/suspension_and_chassis/coilovers/ About $1K for the base shocks, though. https://www.detroitspeed.com/products/suspension_and_chassis/coilovers/parts/030313DS They do appear to work with the stock-type control arms. Ridetech's appear to be "normal" coilovers with top plates @ $830 Those do require the tubular lowers, looks like. I kinda want the Ridetech Shockwave air springs on my Cutlass so I can play around with the ride height.
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Jun 2, 2022 17:16
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Darchangel posted:Detroit Speed has the (half) coilover kit in non-, single, and double-adjustable, and even remote reservoir. the ridetech ones don't use normal coilover springs, they're open at the top. but yeah, requires a coilover lower control arm. but imo that's a benefit, so the control arm can be designed for what you're actually using it for, instead of being adapters all the way down. mr french seemed to be interested in doing tubular control arms anyway, so that doesn't seem like a hurdle that said, if he's not going to be constantly adjusting/swapping to find the right spring rate and ride height, probably just the streetgrip stuff would turn out great
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Jun 3, 2022 03:29
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Any concerns about this spring compressor? Not really clear what to look for in an internal spring compressor, haven't noticed much difference between what I see, but am yet still a bit paranoid about using one. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wmr-w80554
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Jun 3, 2022 03:32
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Steve French posted:Any concerns about this spring compressor? Not really clear what to look for in an internal spring compressor, haven't noticed much difference between what I see, but am yet still a bit paranoid about using one. theres one a lot like that in the autozone loan-a-tool program, looks like. its probably fine come to think of it though, when i did it in the past i think i just popped the upper balljoint apart with a jack under the knuckle (keep the nut partially on until after the taper is separated), and then lowered everything down until the spring was decompressed and came out. i dont remember using a spring compressor at all, although its been a few years.
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Jun 3, 2022 08:41
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I don't know how much the F-bodies changed from gen 1 to gen 2, but for gen 1s (which are identical to my gen 3 X-body), you don't need spring compressors. When I did mine, I put a jack under the lower arm (car on stands, obviously), undid the arm mounting bolts, and lowered the whole thing down. You can pop the lower ball joint if you want, but I didn't need to do that. Just be smooth with your jack movements and the spring will basically just fall out.
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Jun 3, 2022 13:09
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Same process I used on my C10. There's less preload on these springs than a typical strut, and it's not like the spring can rocket one of the control arms completely off the car like it could a strut top.
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Jun 3, 2022 15:24
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Boaz MacPhereson posted:I don't know how much the F-bodies changed from gen 1 to gen 2, but for gen 1s (which are identical to my gen 3 X-body), you don't need spring compressors. When I did mine, I put a jack under the lower arm (car on stands, obviously), undid the arm mounting bolts, and lowered the whole thing down. You can pop the lower ball joint if you want, but I didn't need to do that. Just be smooth with your jack movements and the spring will basically just fall out. Interesting. I was just going off of the instructions in the repair manual I’ve got (and various online guides). Seems like this is basically the same with the spring compressor step added. I imagine it wouldn’t hurt to add that step? Unless I’m more worried about releasing tension with the spring compressor vs the floor jack.  I’m also realizing it’ll be a little annoying to do this with the car on the lift, as getting a floor jack in position with the control arms halfway over the lift platform is meh
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Jun 3, 2022 16:50
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Steve French posted:Interesting. I was just going off of the instructions in the repair manual I’ve got (and various online guides). Seems like this is basically the same with the spring compressor step added. I imagine it wouldn’t hurt to add that step? Unless I’m more worried about releasing tension with the spring compressor vs the floor jack. Yup, that's pretty much exactly what I did minus the spring compressor. Hell, last time I had to do it I didn't even take the wheel off because I was feeling extra lazy. Wouldn't recommend it, but it is physically possible. I actually rented a compressor the first time I took it all apart and kind of came to the conclusion that it was more hassle (for me, anyway) than it's worth. Your situation will definitely be a bit different with a lift, though. It may actually be easier to put the car on some stands and let gravity help you out a bit. A tip on ball joints, though: skip the pickle forks. There's a GM tool for separating ball joints that works on a very different principle and it's much more efficient. I made my own and went over it here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=1&threadid=3651725&pagenumber=10&perpage=40#post465158596
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Jun 3, 2022 17:18
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Steve French posted:Interesting. I was just going off of the instructions in the repair manual I’ve got (and various online guides). Seems like this is basically the same with the spring compressor step added. I imagine it wouldn’t hurt to add that step? Unless I’m more worried about releasing tension with the spring compressor vs the floor jack. I like how they insist on a spring compressor in the instructions but that sure looks like there's no compressor on that spring in the photo.
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Jun 3, 2022 17:40
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I did struts on my Mercedes with a floor jack and it felt a lot safer than using a spring compressor; chiming in to say just do it. If you're hung up on the lift, you could use your lift and a big solid object to the same effect.
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Jun 3, 2022 18:11
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Thanks for all the tips; sounds like it won't be too much of an issue either way. Not that I need to figure this out soon anyway, but it does seem like there are three different options for the disassembly, right? Disconnect upper ball joint, disconnect lower ball joint, or remove arm mounting/pivot bolts. The repair manual says to remove the pivot bolts, but given that that's just in the instructions for removing the spring maybe that's easier if you're not otherwise planning on removing and replacing the arms like I am. Maybe disconnecting a ball joint first would give a more controlled lowering of the spring because the pivot bolts make sure the arm is only rotating on one axis? About ready to pull the trigger on the Ridetech stuff, but of course I have to choose between big block vs small block / LS when ordering. I'm assuming that just determines which springs you get. Of course the 455 is not really either of those, and between the two in weight I'd assume. I'm thinking I'll err on the softer side with the small block springs? Since the lower control arm they sell come with spacers, if it ends up too low I can adjust upwards that way as needed?
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Jun 4, 2022 01:47
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i think the 455 is closer to the weight of a big block. hmm. lets see according to some guy on the internet, the book "Practical Engine Swapping" lists these weights: SBC = 550lbs BBC = 625lbs Pont. = 590' for 350-400 Pont. = 640' for 455 Buick = 450' for 350 Buick = 600' for 430-455 Olds = 600' for 330-455 SBF = 460' BBF = 625' (FE 332-428) SBD = 550' BBD = 670' (383-440) Hemi = 690' Caddy = 600' AMC = 540' (304-401) so you'd be heavier than a BBC. So I'd select big block, in that case. e: some disagreement with those numbers. another source: hotrod mag from 1977: PONTIAC(326-455)640 lbs. SBC(262-400)575lbs. BBC(396-454)685lbs which seems a bit more believable, since the bbc is physically bigger, it makes sense for it to be a little heavier in that case, it could go either way! you know, i bet the ridtech guys would be able to answer this question better than any of us, they probably have done a number of these by now Raluek fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Jun 4, 2022 |
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Jun 4, 2022 02:47
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Yeah, I'll just give them a call Monday. I tried today but time zones hosed me up and I called 10 minutes before they close and nobody answered.
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Jun 4, 2022 03:27
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Pulled the trigger on the full deal, big block springs, with control arms and steering kit. Summit had a good portion of the stuff in stock, but it’ll be a while before I get all of it I’m sure. Also grabbed a bridge jack for the lift which I’ll hopefully be much more comfortable with than just a few jack stands. Waiting game time
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Jun 7, 2022 03:08
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what was the advice from ridetech? that the original 400/455 was closer to the big block, so only use the small block springs if you were gonna ls swap? i just hope that the ride height isnt too tall if the springs are expecting another 50lb
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Jun 7, 2022 03:23
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Raluek posted:what was the advice from ridetech? that the original 400/455 was closer to the big block, so only use the small block springs if you were gonna ls swap? The guy I talked to was honestly sort of dismissive, like "what engine is in it?" "455 from a '75 trans am" "oh that's a big block" "well not exactly but" I explained that I wasn't sure since it's a pontiac and not technically a big block and maybe lighter than some of the BBCs, but he seemed pretty confident that big block springs were right. I'm still uncertain, but ultimately need to decide one way or the other and direct from the manufacturer seems like the right starting point. We'll see. I think second worst case is that since the system is designed to be 1" lower than stock, it ends up being higher than intended but still lower than it is now, which I think I'd be relatively okay with unless the discrepancy between front and back is severe. Worst case would be it ends up higher than it is now, in which case I replace the springs, which are a relatively small portion of the overall $$ I'm throwing at this, so I'm okay with that being a possibility.
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Jun 7, 2022 03:37
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now that i think about it, if you still have the iron intake and manifolds and stuff like that, it might be about the same weight as a BBC with an aluminum intake and headers. i wonder if they take factory weights, or typical enthusiast upgrade configurations when they figure that stuff out yeah worst case you can cut the springs or just throw another set in there. i think muscle/pony cars look best when dumped super low, but on the other hand, doing that with a softer spring rate seems like a poor choice. so getting the stiffer big block rate is probably a good call from a handling point of view of course, saying all that, if i drove two T/As back to back, one with small block springs and one with big block springs, idk if i would be able to tell the difference from the drivers seat. they are probably not that far off
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Jun 7, 2022 03:43
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I really doubt the difference in weight between a 455 Pontiac and a BBC is going to change ride height by any significant amount.
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Jun 7, 2022 03:53
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Yeah not totally sure how things shake out for this car vs stock in terms of weight. I’d guess lighter but no idea how much; it has stock intake but aftermarket headers, no heater, not sure off hand what else is missing from the engine compartment of any significant weight. I’m expecting it’ll be fine
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Jun 7, 2022 04:10
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I think I'm the only gross person that likes a tall ride height on old school cars. I just think it looks neat.
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Jun 7, 2022 04:27
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Very few people understand that Buick/Pontiac didn't have "Big Blocks" they had the same engine for everything from sub 300 CU all the way up to 455 CU. Olds is similar but the large displacements have a taller deck for more stroke to get to 455. It doesn't help that a lot of racing bodies split engines into small block/big block by displacement to make it easier to put cars into a specific class. Butler Performance who are a big name in Pontiac engines do 496 stroker kits that work in a 400 and the largest kit for a 455 is 503 the only difference being a slightly larger bore. My 400 at the machine shop right now is staying a 400 because for the application it is going in having a 496 or even a 461 is money that will be better spent on the FI side of the build.
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Jun 7, 2022 16:11
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Raluek posted:the ridetech ones don't use normal coilover springs, they're open at the top. but yeah, requires a coilover lower control arm. but imo that's a benefit, so the control arm can be designed for what you're actually using it for, instead of being adapters all the way down. mr french seemed to be interested in doing tubular control arms anyway, so that doesn't seem like a hurdle Ridetech’s website and the PDF instructions for the coil overs disagree without you. There is an upper perch on the shock body. https://www.ridetech.com/product/1970-1981-chevy-camaro-firebird-coilover-front-system-single-adjustable/ Bonus there is that they should be a standard diameter and of the springs turn out to be too heavy for the 455, they can be fairly easily replaced, though I agree with others that while the 455 isn’t technically a “big block” it’s close enough.
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Jun 7, 2022 21:47
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Darchangel posted:Ridetech’s website and the PDF instructions for the coil overs disagree without you. hmm, you are right. i guess i was thinking of the style used by QA1 and others:  i don't like the way ridetech does it, because it puts the whole weight of the vehicle on those little shock mount bolt holes in the frame. there's not much surface area to spread that out, and it feels more sketchy than a proper eye mount in double shear to a gusseted bracket. i mean, ridetech has mechanical engineers, its probably fine, but i dont like it. i thought they did it the other way, cause that way you would get a lot more surface area contact with the frame to hold the weight, and you still get height adjustment at the bottom. but then the downside is spring availability. really i dont see a good solution unless you cut out all the stock stuff and weld on upper mounts designed for coilovers. my gut feeling is probably wrong on this, so if you know better then please share.
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Jun 8, 2022 04:09
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Detroit Speed's are like those QA1s, and yeah, I think I like that better. That said, standard coilovers let you use a wide variety of springs easily available. I don't think the shock mount on the frame is too much of a weak point, seeing as how it's just a hole in the part where the springs rest anyway, though your concern about spreading the load versus concentrating it is a valid point. I'd probably consider welding something like a 3" 3/16" donut there to reinforce the area, just on principle.
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Jun 9, 2022 23:12
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Small update: ridetech kit is quite delayed, apparently due to the composite leaf springs being unobtainium. I have the steering kit and the lower control arms, but the uppers and the street grip kit are still in limbo. In the meantime I fiddled with wiring some more to diagnose the inoperable driver side door popper. I noticed this in the dash, figured I didn’t need it in there anymore  Concluded after blowing a fuse and doing some continuity testing that the issue is a short somewhere in the popper. Fun. I have no interest at the moment in dealing with replacing it, buried inside the door. So I’ll just deal with entering from the passenger side for a while anytime I am not leaving the T tops off and windows down, which is pretty rare.  
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Jul 11, 2022 01:30
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Winter was a rough one here and I got absolutely nothing done on the car, but used my birthday as an excuse yesterday to spend the afternoon in the garage with my wife starting the suspension replacement project. The rear seemed less intimidating so we started with that. Only had a few hours before we had to pick up the kids so didn't do a ton, spent a lot of the time familiarizing ourselves with the parts and the layout of everything and the process. The first step was fixing the way it was lifted up on the bridge jack; the lift pads weren't high enough and would result in the mufflers being pressed a bit against the center of the jack. But the lift pad extensions were too long too fit under it before lifting. So we did a dumb little sequence of moving the floor jack under the car, then lowering the lift to the floor, then lifting the car with the floor jack, then putting the extensions on, then lifting the car with the bridge jack. Didn't think until someone pointed it out later that I coulda just used some wood blocks. Oh well. Lifted with the extension on, and axle supported for spring removal:  Removed this nut from the rear. Instructions warned this might be seized on there good and need some pb blaster soaking, but came off with the breaker bar without much trouble.  And the nut holding the parking brake cable clip, along with the next nut holding the shock bottom in place and associated rubber bits  Removed the three bolts holding the front bracket on as well, and then the four bolts in the center. Didn't get a photo of the front bracket. Had to run to get kids right as we got to this point; the bracket didn't come off easily and didn't have time to figure out what was still keeping it in place, might just be binding against the bolts from sitting there at an angle with a bit of pressure.  In other news that will also involve a fair bit of work here, and will just lump into this thread, bought a 1993 bronco back from a friend that we sold 5 years ago. Wife bought it ~20 years ago.   It's running well, but everything rattles and the suspension also for sure needs work, so a fair bit of work on that will likely be next up after replacing the Firebird suspension.
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May 5, 2023 01:55
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