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eschaton posted:the question is whether they have any understanding of whether trump would be better or worse (hint it’s the second one and I’m pretty sure that an awful lot of people understand that, though not as many as need to) given that president biden is the one in office and enthusiastically supporting genocide, tiktok was banned under his administration, students are being beaten and arrested, well.. some people may not want that anymore even if the alternative is a worse kind of different should president biden be re-elected given the above? absolutely not. should donald trump be president again? also absolutely not, but the american people live in an authoritarian police state cosplaying a democracy
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Apr 27, 2024 15:01
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biden bad
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Apr 27, 2024 19:06
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more like baden lol
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Apr 27, 2024 20:22
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President badman
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Apr 27, 2024 20:25
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ADINSX posted:President badman kojima-rear end name
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Apr 28, 2024 03:27
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dioxazine posted:given that president biden is the one in office and enthusiastically supporting genocide, tiktok was banned under his administration, students are being beaten and arrested, well.. some people may not want that anymore even if the alternative is a worse kind of different it’s so cute you think those things would be different under Trump—as opposed to the things that actually would be different under Trump, which are very very bad remember that this is the guy who moved the US embassy to Jerusalem and his close advisor and son in law is talking about seaside resorts in Gaza after the ethnic cleansing is successful what do you think “dictator on day 1” will do with people who disagree with him on anything? do you think there’ll be any due process? they are gearing up for full fascism and have been since before he lost in 2020, if you want to see the future if Trump wins look at Chile under Pinochet
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Apr 28, 2024 09:43
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eschaton posted:it’s so cute you think those things would be different under Trump—as opposed to the things that actually would be different under Trump, which are very very bad lol at trying to vote shame someone into literally voting for genocide
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Apr 28, 2024 09:45
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fart simpson posted:lol at trying to vote shame someone into literally voting for genocide
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Apr 28, 2024 09:45
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you have no red line. nothing blue could do that you will not vote for. some people do have principles though
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Apr 28, 2024 09:49
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your choice is genocide without fascism and a marginal chance to do something about it, or genocide with fascism and a much higher chance of getting killed for even saying anything about it tell me which is the principled stand again
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Apr 28, 2024 10:41
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but hey maybe go ahead and don’t believe Trump and all of the people in his orbit when they say exactly what a second (permanent) Trump administration (dynasty) would look like the guy whose followers literally erected a gallows outside the Capitol and attempted to capture the Vice President to prevent counting electoral votes will surely adhere to the norms and traditions of the office and government as a whole, and nothing will get too bad for computer touchers in the 4 years he will most certainly only be in office, right?
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Apr 28, 2024 10:48
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fart simpson posted:lol at trying to vote shame someone into literally voting for genocide this is america, fart, not-genocide hasn't been on the ballot for 250 years
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Apr 28, 2024 10:54
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not with anything resembling any of realistic chance of winning anyway, and in a first past the post system that means you’re still voting for one of the two actually-could-win candidates even if you don’t vote at al
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Apr 28, 2024 10:57
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eschaton posted:your choice is genocide without fascism and a marginal chance to do something about it, or genocide with fascism and a much higher chance of getting killed for even saying anything about it you would literally vote for hitler if he ran as a democrat
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Apr 28, 2024 11:13
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if the other option is someone even worse, then what would the right choice be? remember that the American system will assign your potential vote to one or the other no matter what fantasy you harbor: your vote is always going to be counted for one or the other, and can never actually oppose both what do you do?
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Apr 28, 2024 11:21
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surely there would be no genocide under noted compassion-haver donald j trump
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Apr 28, 2024 11:29
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you have snipers on rooftops, security forces beating people, national guard in your subways, elected officials calling for the arrest and expulsion of those who participate in civil disobedience, police injecting detainees with sedatives that kill them, xenophobia at an all time high, a foreign policy based on endless war and more. it's so cute that you don't think you live under fascism yet
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Apr 28, 2024 15:04
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eschaton posted:tell me which is the principled stand again Vote for a third party candidate, or write in the person you think would actually be a good president.
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Apr 28, 2024 16:31
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eschaton posted:if the other option is someone even worse, then what would the right choice be? what would you tell a palestinian american in michigan? who should they vote for?
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Apr 28, 2024 16:34
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dioxazine posted:you have snipers on rooftops, security forces beating people, national guard in your subways, elected officials calling for the arrest and expulsion of those who participate in civil disobedience, police injecting detainees with sedatives that kill them, xenophobia at an all time high, a foreign policy based on endless war and more. it's so cute that you don't think you live under fascism yet claiming that things could not get substantially and qualitatively worse betrays an astonishing lack of either imagination or historical awareness
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Apr 28, 2024 16:45
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fart simpson posted:what would you tell a palestinian american in michigan? who should they vote for? Generally my problem with the liberal "Blue no matter who" people is their attitude about it. It's one thing to do the calculus and know that Biden is better for you on the whole than Trump and pull the lever while still openly hating his guts, but liberals won't just take that- they want you to smile when you do it.
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Apr 28, 2024 17:20
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in a choice between hitler and mega-hitler, if you refuse to participate, the end result won’t change, but at least you didn’t vote for hitler
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Apr 28, 2024 17:30
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fart simpson posted:lol at trying to vote shame someone into literally voting for genocide
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Apr 28, 2024 17:41
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eschaton posted:if the other option is someone even worse, then what would the right choice be? i wouldn't vote.
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Apr 28, 2024 17:42
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Truman Peyote posted:in a choice between hitler and mega-hitler, if you refuse to participate, the end result won’t change, but at least you didn’t vote for hitler
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Apr 28, 2024 17:57
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im voting for the guy who’s not trump. sorry if that offends u
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Apr 28, 2024 18:16
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Sagebrush posted:Vote for a third party candidate, or write in the person you think would actually be a good president. by this logic jo jorgenson arguably did the right thing albeit nearly 20x less successfully than perot
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Apr 28, 2024 18:17
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i just thought that marker was interesting
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Apr 28, 2024 18:17
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there is no option in the american system to vote meaningfully for change. you can opt to help steer in one of two predetermined directions (right or more right) or you can opt out. it's real bad shaming someone for opting out is tacky, but so is being smug about your non-participation because the difference between right and more right won't affect you personally
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Apr 28, 2024 18:20
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I'm not gonna rubberstamp gaza, sorry. the electoral college will wipe out my vote anyway so it truly does not matter
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Apr 28, 2024 18:24
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Not supporting genocide must become as important as gas prices or jobs for political analysts and political advisors. Not voting, or voting for democrats is basically endorsing genocide. The only moral choice is to vote for Trump to show the current and any future administrations that supporting genocide is unacceptable and will cause your administration to lose elections. The electorate must show the political parties that there is a large enough group of vengeful voters who will destroy any pro genocide administration or party.
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Apr 28, 2024 18:31
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well-read undead posted:there is no option in the american system to vote meaningfully for change. you can opt to help steer in one of two predetermined directions (right or more right) or you can opt out. it's real bad i'm probably gonna vote for the green party candidate. if everyone did this instead of VOtiNG BlUe nO MaTtEr wHo, neither biden nor trump would be the president. so it's everyone else's fault for not voting their convictions.
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Apr 28, 2024 18:32
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i voted for 侯 last election, so i'm blame free
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Apr 28, 2024 18:35
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This is all just mostly coping with your inability to absolve yourself completely of whatever your country does- outside of expatriating or strapping up, you can't btw
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Apr 28, 2024 18:36
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it’s almost as if the working class has slowly been stripped of representation in favour of monied interests
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Apr 28, 2024 18:37
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Sagebrush posted:i'm probably gonna vote for the green party candidate. if everyone did this instead of VOtiNG BlUe nO MaTtEr wHo, neither biden nor trump would be the president. yes very true, also if everyone would send me a dollar a could retire in luxury bold of you to assume most americans have political convictions
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Apr 28, 2024 18:46
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well-read undead posted:yes very true, also if everyone would send me a dollar a could retire in luxury I think his point is more for people who claim we need to vote blue no matter who: if it truely doesn’t matter to you who to vote for, then vote for my socialist guy, that way trump loses and that’s all that mattered to you anyway, so we all win
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Apr 28, 2024 19:22
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i am not going to vote for biden but i am going to vote for whoever is running against trump even if that's biden sucks but it tis what it tis
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Apr 28, 2024 19:38
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I think this is probably the page that we're going to solve the ethics of voting on.
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Apr 28, 2024 19:47
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Fabricated posted:I'd tell them that Biden is the better choice and to just hope he drops dead in his second term. why wait that long? if he drops dead before election night the rules don't say it goes to the runner up do they?
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Apr 28, 2024 19:55
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