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Gaius Marius posted:drat I was planning on watching along, but I'm already half way through season 2. Having the discipline to only watch an episode at a time is something I clearly lack. You wanna get more into this, of course with spoilers.
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Oct 5, 2020 20:04
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Incelshok Na posted:I'm really conflicted about the Don-as-serial-killer line they dropped. You can still see a lot of it in S4. It would have been a . . . very different show. Dextermania was a part of the zeitgeist in weird ways because it was such a mediocre show. what what what?!??! where did you get this.
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Oct 20, 2020 02:32
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sebmojo posted:mcbain.gif if there's a joke i don't get it, so i guess i deserve that?
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Oct 20, 2020 02:45
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Cannot more disagree about that by the middle section of the show Peggy had a velvet smooth presentation style that shrewdly played on the psychology of the client in the room. It wasnt Don's alpha domineering thing, it was a more gentle, yet insistent pitching style that absolutely showed why she was so valued.
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Oct 20, 2020 13:56
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I mean look at this clip, and tell me she's not good at her job https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4LHb89pAlA&ab_channel=rcmiv e: or this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIIB_YTzxNc&ab_channel=-- Shageletic fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Oct 21, 2020 |
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Oct 21, 2020 06:11
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Forktoss posted:The video's blocked for me but I'm guessing this is the Heinz Ketchup pitch. I have to say that always falls a bit flat for me for whatever reason. It's the first time Don and Peggy directly compete with each other, and Peggy even wins, but somehow it doesn't feel big enough. Maybe it's because we see much more of the preparation and build-up towards Don's pitch before Ted and Peggy swoop in out of the blue. (Which is probably the point and you're supposed to feel deflated by it, but that emotional beat works for Don's story at that point more than Peggy's.) She has plenty of other great and well-earned moments though, Burger Chef for one (I mean she even steals her neighbour's kid for that pitch). Its the Heinz pitch.The way I saw it, Draper's pitch was better. But more importantly, Peggy's is more like what the client WANTED. The client deflates Don's pitch asking about where the bottle is, and Peggy comes in with a pitch with it as its center, right on cue, also mirroring Heinz desire to beat its then biggest rival, catsup. Don's pitch is light-years ahead, evincing a modern and brilliant approach that is at least 3 decades too soon (Heinz actually used his pitch in a campaign in 2017, giving credit to Mad Men writing staff for the idea). But Peggy gives people what they want at the time. And in business, the latter tends to win out. Of course the bigger firm won just based on its size, which is even more how these things shake out. E: to extend it further, Don challenged his clients with his confident and status shaking ideas. Peggy shrewdly played on their psychology, being whoever and whatever they wanted her to be. E2: but they both heavily played on nostalgia. Which makes sense they're mentor/mentee. Its a dated approach that gets swamped by an ironic/meta approach to advertising in recent times. I can imagine a 60 year old Peggy in the 90s being at a loss what the culture accepts as advertising. Shageletic fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Oct 21, 2020 |
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Oct 21, 2020 13:14
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Jerusalem posted:More than that, though, he had "moved up a notch": like Roger he had come to the realization that death is inevitable, and that he was moving ever closer to his own. Been doing a deep dive on Mad Men clips on youtube based on this thread (please Jerusalem make your posts as long as possible, I love em). Came across the scene in S7 when Draper joined that huge meeting of Creative Heads for the Milwakee Beer pitch. So much happening in that scene, like research running it and taking up his mantle as head bullshiter, Shaugh acknowledging him and being wistfully envious about his fleeing, etc, etc. But you know whats the first thing that soured the whole meeting for Draper and started the steps he would take to flee from Mccann and end up in California? When one of the other suits asks Shaugh if he and Draper were ready to "move [Mccann] up a notch". This loving show.
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Oct 26, 2020 00:10
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Come to think of it, Research's analysis of the death drive pretty much is the engine Mad Men runs on from start to finish. e: as far as Don's quests and resulting need for emotional catharsis goes, remember who his first lover was. Don's on an eternal search for a mother/lover. This post is extremely Freud as gently caress e: Hey Jeruselem I know you're perusing the thread right now, hope I didn't spoil anything with my spoiler snafu earlier. Shageletic fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Oct 26, 2020 |
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Oct 26, 2020 00:11
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Yoshi Wins posted:Absolultely. He wanted to create a perfect image for all of society to see, and so he married a woman who looks A LOT like Grace Kelly. I actually think it's relevant to Don's character how much January Jones looks like Grace Kelly. It suggests he thought 2 things. One: "My life should look like the movies." And two: "When everything LOOKS perfect, everything will BE perfect." But wasn't that just what the Jet Set people were doing in California, something that Don definitively rejected as meaningless and without purpose? Don needed to start a family as a way to redeem or get past his own damaged childhood, even though he was completely lovely at it. Being eternally childless and without any responsibility? I don't think that his sort of escapism. It was recreating the family, the life, that he always wanted. To aspire to something he could claim as good. Its the heart of his motivation, and his self loathing, his success in business, and his whole life really.
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Oct 26, 2020 00:25
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HppyCmpr posted:I could be wrong but I feel like Kennedy is one of the first examples where the president was marketed more as a product than as a policy mouthpiece of the party. It has been a while since I've studied US politics and history though, so I could be forgetting earlier examples. Eh Lincoln chopping wood, Andrew Jackson fighting Indians, actually we had a string of Presidents in the 1840s that were seen as Indian fighters/genociders. Its always been a product. The first real competition btw Jefferson and Adams was a matter of who was meaner.
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Oct 28, 2020 00:03
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MightyJoe36 posted:Yeah, television really changed the whole campaign landscape. Eisenhower was the first president to use TV as a medium to reach the voters. IIRC, Kennedy/Nixon was the first televised debate. I'm trying to remember this book I read in poli sci, a fictional take about the handover of machine style politics to one dominated by TV. I can't remember!
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Oct 29, 2020 23:29
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Another great ep firmly setting Mad Men as the best work politics drama ever. also the best drama ever.
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Oct 30, 2020 00:09
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Hey Jerusalem theres alot of great stuff online when it comes to production design and Mad Men, people like Jane Bryant (who designed the costumes) and Matthew Weiner's near obsessive attn to detailquote:One of the keys to “Mad Men” was Weiner’s edict that it not be a stylized version of the 1960s, something which has become common in bigscreen period filmmaking. “Having so much detail and sweat stains and ashes and broken furniture and cracked glass and dirt on the walls and all that other stuff that makes it feel more like a real thing than like a movie, so that everyone’s imagination becomes employed,” Weiner said. “And when you work with people that good, you can’t even believe how much story comes up.” The AMC behind the scenes vignettes went into it. Dunno if its on the blurays. Heres a link to more interviews: https://www.google.com/amp/s/artdepartmental.com/blog/tv-sets-mad-men-seasons-1-3/amp/
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Nov 23, 2020 01:57
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Blood Nightmaster posted:I feel like I have to post the scene where Betty walks down the staircase from this episode--it really is one of those times where the music just fits the moment perfectly. It almost feels like an ad itself, kind of selling the idea of their relationship: The image is real to Don, isn't it. Appearance, and what it says. He has the perfect life precisely BECAUSE it looks perfect. His job is to spin words into fantasies you can buy, his affairs help him deny death, his identity his best creation. Image made real. Its such a damning idea of America it boggles.
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Dec 7, 2020 23:06
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I loved loved loved Bobbi and Peggy's interaction, a still rare interaction btw women thats just plain advice on how to survive, in a world of TV writing still awash in dark brooding male anti heroes. Bobbi's change in demeanor around Peggy, and Peggy's too, curious but not too curious, respectful but keeping her boundaries in check. Its the real Peggy peaking thru. I thought Bobbi was great personally.
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Dec 11, 2020 12:51
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Its a Chip AND Dip!
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Dec 11, 2020 14:50
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Gaius Marius posted:I was surprised by how much more I empathized with Duck on this watch. There's a strong undercurrent in the show about people dealing with the trauma of war, nearly every character we see who has a severe addiction to alcohol is someone self medicating to deal with it. I don't think it's any coincidence they set this episode on memorial day and directly brought up Don's service. There's been some good studies and articles on the prevalence of alcoholism in re to WWII vets returning to the work force, its crazy how prevalent it was, and the unprecedented amount od heart attacks and life long illnesses being largely normalized
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Dec 20, 2020 18:44
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Jerusalem posted:Kind of a tangent to this, but something I find interesting is that Pete pays lipservice to emulating his superiors, but it's always empty talk that is never backed up by anything we actually see him doing. He told Don that he considered Roger a mentor which is just utter bullshit, he tells Don he would "follow him into war" because he thinks a guy with Don's military record would want to hear something like that, but Duck is the only one of the two I recall him ever actively insulting in public in front of others. He comes close when talking poo poo about Don sometimes but always couches it more in regards to himself and others. With Duck, he's always showing his disdain to others, but ironically Duck is one of the few higher-ups in Sterling Cooper that not only treats Pete well, but with a measure of respect/admiration... well at least until Pete made that ridiculous suggestion about getting a dog to just live in the office. Pete's really interesting because he obviously came from a family without much paternal attn or love, and you can see how much how he wants to be validated by his older male superiors. But he also devalues them and seeks to cast them down at every opportunity. Some real push pull psychology right there. A lesser show would have made him a brown noser, or machivellian. This show made him both, and strangely adolescent. The Klowner posted:Pete is certainly emulating Don in one specific way in this episode. For Don affairs are an escape. For Pete, they're an excuse.
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Dec 20, 2020 18:48
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Jerusalem posted:Strangely adolescent is spot on, he's a grown rear end married man but he still looks like a little kid playing dress up in his suits to me. One of the many reasons why Mad Men is my favorite TV show of all time is that Matt Weiner and the rest of the writers really, really, really had their knives out for the idea of concepts of the supposedly meritocratic workplace, these people are all children, and that's fine enough, as long they get along with those in real power Yoshi Wins posted:I keep thinking about Jimmy saying about Don "I've been standing behind guys like him my whole life." Don is such a unique jumble of privilege and misfortune. When Jimmy said that, he obviously didn't mean "guys who were absolutely destitute, utterly unloved orphans." He sees the costume Don wears all the time, and the costume is one of absolute privilege. A tall, handsome, rich gentile. It is impossible for Jimmy to sympathize with that man. Example A right here, for Don to get where he is he needed to be something that wasn't real, something pretty terrible but everyone pretends is great, Don is America
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Dec 21, 2020 21:01
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The Klowner posted:
That's a pretty good distillery but yeah starting out drinking bourbon is gonna make anyone take a step back, personally I find good scotch like this boy here [url]https://www.totalwine.com/spirits/scotch/single-malt/auchentoshan-three-wood/p/101387750?glia=true&s=303&&pid=cpc:Core+Catalog+-+Shopping%2BUS%2BCALI%2BENG%2BSPART:  :&gclid=CjwKCAiAxKv_BRBdEiwAyd40N0we0z2A-Ms0fK9t-RjJ2E1oeuZx2tJT_E-v10qsYeOZbnShIgcVPhoC9NcQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds[/url] to be as smooth as juice, but tastes differ ofc e: lol what the gently caress is happening with links
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Dec 29, 2020 22:53
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sebmojo posted:ok yeah that was fairly weird but i think this is what you were pointing at? Yup. Haunted code.
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Dec 30, 2020 03:02
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I think its clear over the first 2 seasons of Mad Men that Don's most honed pitch is himself. He doesn't have any roots, or any family, or any past, but what he has is the same thing underlying his every client meeting, every interaction at work, even his paternal aloofness at home, he's better than all of this, because Don only looks to the future. I've said Don is America, and this aspect of himself is especially so, in the space age 60s where Americans can look up to the Moon and not at the bloodied earth under their feet. This is a recipe for psychological disaster. For a sociopathic psychosis that tears away at cohesion and relationships. Eternal optimism cut off from reality leads to an eternal hunger for more and just out of reach happiness. Don is never happy (or only for brief, brief moments, mostly when he engages with his children, or engages with his coworkers in the pure art of craft and ideas). Most of the time Don is so devoted to the idea of looking like a great person, better than everything around him, the things that actually make him act are always a mystery to himself. He doesn't engage with his shadow self, or his unconscious desires that make him clutch at anything that pushes away the idea of death or decline for himself (America), he's separated himself from the hard work of growing and appreciating the things that give him comfort, the mundane realities of family, of socializing with peers on equal terms, of putting in stakes and attempting to be content. Don would so benefit from good psychological advice, from a specialist. But he's inured, so powerful, so rich, and so lauded, he wouldn't even deign to do anything of the sort. Its a shame, kinda.
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Jan 5, 2021 23:09
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Yeah Don's an emotional guy, even a sentimental one, but its really only honed to make himself more money. Like Pete's ability to read tea leaves. These people's gifts or what have you are honed to their business. It reminds me of ppl I met in grad school. If you're gonna make money, parts of your personality wither away based on your focus on your ambition. Then cue 20 years later and everyone is having divorces and just embarrasing themselves tryi g to turn into a DJ or something
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Jan 7, 2021 05:29
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The similarities between Marilyn Monroe and Don are obvious, but for anyone who doesn’t know, iirc Marilyn aka Norma Jean Mortenson had an abusive childhood, escaped her old family and name by going to Holllywood, and completely changing herself. Well, tried to anyway. The other thing I’d note about the ep is that Mad Men is the only show where Checkov’s Gun is a verbose, life loving millionaire boss, and the gun shooting off is him running away with a secretary. Perfectly makes sense in hindsight, an inevitability.
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Jan 13, 2021 04:57
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Yoshi Wins posted:. Don trying to pass as a wealthy white man born to privilege takes up all his mental space, well his conscious mental space. He doesn’t have the energy to spare for sympathizing with other people on the margins, tho he doesn’t have any spite for them either. There have been occasions, like with Peggy, where he exhibits something like sympathy, but I see it more as spotting an uncut gem, something precious that he can see and other dumber people can’t quote:Yeah, “those people” definitely belongs in quotes here. Who are we talking about Pete? The conversation is about Freddy Rumsen, who never, ever blamed anyone else for what happened. Freddy just asked for clemency. Pete's justification is completely inapplicable here. To me, it suggests that he holds other people in contempt by default. So my hard-hitting analysis is: Pete's a jerk. Feels like Pete is is projecting stuff about his dad, who apparently was just a fortune wasting playboy. Maybe he was a drunk as well?
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Jan 13, 2021 05:02
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Man I need to rewatch the stretch of episodes between Don finding out about Sal in the hotel and Sal turning down Lee Jr. I feel like Don tolerated Sal when he found out, then kicked him out without hesitation when he thought it might impact the business. I think Don is DEFINITELY homophobic, but is not a virulent homophobe. Don takes pride in being dispassionate (in the car with Bobbie saying “I don’t feel anything”) and being passionately anything would remove an essential layer of the shell he’d created around himself. He reminds me of a lot of people of privilege and supposed education, their bigotry comes at you in surprising times, when you are vulnerable and no one else is watching.
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Jan 13, 2021 05:37
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Xealot posted:(Don and Sal stuff) That's real interesting. I hadn't thought of Don's secret life creating, well not sympathy, but understanding for what Sal is going through.
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Jan 15, 2021 00:09
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GoutPatrol posted:I think its not intentionally trying to make a connection, but I'm guessing when writing The Suitcase they went back to some familiar ideas to expand upon the ideas here. wow, this bit in the article: Luckily, Matt knew what he wanted. At my makeup and wardrobe test, he came over and said, "You know what's going to happen to Sal?" I said, "What?" Keep in mind, this was before we filmed the pilot. "Later on, I don't know when, but he's going to go on a business trip with Don and Don's going to bag a stewardess. And Sal's going to go on the trip too. He's going to have sex with some guy and Don's going to find out—but it's not going to matter." I said, "That's cool." I hadn't even read the whole script yet. I had just been cast. All I knew was: This was television! I was going to bring Matt's image of Sal to life. It really adds to the convo we were having earlier.
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Jan 22, 2021 14:53
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Yoshi Wins posted:Yeah, the end of this season is super strong. This is a very good episode, although I think the Glen part drags a bit. But that conversation with Helen Bishop is so powerful. Betty was trained to be a housewife and mother. She was never shown how to be nor expected to be an independent adult. It's a daunting prospect. And truth be told, she does have some childish tendencies, which is part of why she inappropriately takes comfort in Glen's affection. This episode was a purposeful contrast in studying various ways your childhood and parents can gently caress you up. Pete's family situation and Betty's, its a pretty obvious compare and contrast thing...with Pete coming off as more...healthy? Like the Betty household seems to have reared their children in illusions, lies, and infantilizing their children way past adulthood. William literally hid in a treefort. Gene, well we don't know how Gene is normally, but he seemed to have his way around the house, and his needs catered for. Betty from the start of the show has been a sheltered, naive, well, "princess", just like Gene said and went out of his way to foster. Pete is completely hosed up. he thinks getting close to someone is being able to have the means to hurt them, from Don, to his mother. Abuse and manipulation is his expressions of love. But at least he seems cognizant of how hosed up his childhood was, and seems to be trying to make a break from it, in one way or the other. Maybe not having an inheritance freed him in some way. Betty seems to still be trapped in the circle of her upbringing. The show seems to be saying that its better to be shown the truth, in all its nasty permutations, than be coddled. At least thats what I'm getting.
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Jan 22, 2021 16:07
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Thanks! I'm a big fan of the show so have plenty of time to have thought about the character dynamics. One thing I forgot to mention is how healthy, comparatively, Pete and his brother (an excellent actor, and great everytime he shows up) are with each other. They know their parents are poo poo, but at least they've gone through it together, even tho his brother told on him. Betty and William honestly feel more dysfunctional to me. As a brother with four other brothers, I'm very away of the dynamic that happens when you grow up. You either drop the dynamics you had as children (for the most part) and become friends who have a LOT in common, or you hold onto it and gradually drift away. Pete and his brother seemed to have gone for the first option. Betty and William for the latter (with Betty still bossing him around like the elder sister).
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Jan 22, 2021 18:42
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Sash! posted:I'm not sure what just triggered the thought, but aviation comes up so much in the show and in so many different ways. Not just "they fly around, because they are fancy Jet Age business men," but in every aspect it can. Mohawk, American, the Flight 1 crash, the Jet Set California people, General Dynamics, North American Aviation, Ted and Jim are/were pilots, Ted's Cessna and his various adventures, Don's wistful contrail watching at McCann, Pete ending up at Learjet. Almost like it is supposed to be a theme that I'm too dense to figure out. Aviation and the its mystique was huge in the 60s. New technological future, an optimistic vision of America and all that. Also you can literally run away on a plane E: Wasn't Ted miserable flyong on his plane by the end of the show E2: What Yoshi said Shageletic fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Jan 23, 2021 |
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Jan 23, 2021 01:47
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alotta thoughts on the latest write-up (Don/Anna's relationship could take up a book) but just quickly wanted to point how loving excellent the acting was this ep. John Hamm, obviously, shifting like a chameleon between the facade of Donnie Drapes, to the man bitterly holding the remnants of it, to the eager huckster looking for love willing to create it. His face loving CHANGES. Its unearthly. You know who else did a little acting showcase? Keirnan Shipka. Don't know where they plucked the girl actress, but I've never seen a show before and since that had a child barely out of toddler age act so convincingly, and so...full of heart-rendingly sympathetic? Her being locked in the closet and crying out for her dad, playing a victim and honestly hurt. Its so weirdly well-acted, but not robotically like many a child actor. It just rings true, and ably elides the complex emotional landscape you have as a child and no parent is willing to acknowledge. Also real neat to see the further cementing of Peggy, Pitch Master. You can see her more easily falling into her pitching persona, not as aggressive or in control as Don's, by necessity, but a warm yet complete certainty in what she is saying. Real fun.
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Jan 27, 2021 16:22
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Yoshi Wins posted:What does everyone think of how firmly Pete rejects adoption in this episode when in The Inheritance he appeared to be softening on the idea a bit? He drunkenly rambles to Peggy in The Inheritance that the fact that "it's not yours" could be a good thing. He never seems keen on it, but it seems like he's starting to at least consider it a bit. But then in this episode he's so violently opposed to Trudy making them an appointment that he maybe possibly killed a Manhattan pedestrian. Because Trudy made the decision. Rationally, and Pete's a pretty smart guy, its not a bad idea. But his future being decided without his supposed say so got him freaking out emotionally tp regain control. Probavly because he subconsciously feels like he doesnt control his life. Don's in the wind, and Pete's stuck in the nest.
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Jan 27, 2021 20:29
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VinylonUnderground posted:Pete is a complex character. He's the best character on the show. Primo pete post
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Feb 2, 2021 13:43
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pentyne posted:show us on the doll where Matthew Weiner touched you Vinylon has a point. Weiner's love of privilege is something that jars with his depiction of its infantilizing and negative effects. I think its interesting, but it can also lead to tepid valorizing if it isnt carefully calibrated. CoughTheRomanovscough
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Feb 2, 2021 13:55
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GoutPatrol posted:I would disagree on this. I feel like the entire point of the final conversation is Mathis saying anything Don would have done to fix it would work, while anything Mathis does wouldn't (you may disagree on this, but I think that's true. Nothing Mathis did probably would of made the client happy). He could get away with so many things because of his looks, and I think Mad Men does a great job explaining that - like when Pete and Don go golfing and Don forgets his golf clothes, and just goes "I'll throw my tie back and roll up my sleeves, they'll love it." Pete replies "...they probably will." and they go. Only a Don could get away with this. Even Don does subconsciously know this, when they all go on speed and Don is explaining to tap dancing Ken that "he must be there in the flesh" on his pitches, because in the end, a big part of his sales pitch is himself. I keep on thinking about the line in S7 where Sally says Don and Betty ooze when ppl look at them.
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Feb 2, 2021 14:07
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"If," warns Ken, but once he's gone Lois' face breaks out in a huge smile, this merger is going to be great for her!
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Feb 2, 2021 15:23
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Xealot posted:I was so psyched for The Romanoffs and goddamn what a let-down that was. Though I think the Russian orphanage episode is legit great; it has a lot of things to say about privilege, and valorizing it isn't one of them. I kinda lost interest from what I saw of the first episode, the reviews, and no one talking about it so I might just be talking out of my rear end.
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Feb 3, 2021 01:55
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Catching up with the thread and read your S3E1 recap Jerusalem, so going off that, felt like making a post...about management I've only a glancing first person experience with it, but I love this show and there's a lot of good stuff about it relating to Mad Men. A lot of takes from people that do it professional approving of the show's take on it. In fact, its kinda surprising how much they think Mad Men gets it right regarding visimillitude, until I realized how each one used it as a jumping off point for their ultimate vision of proper management techniques. Reaching into the 20th Century, there had been a long tradition of popular management techniques using the language of science and progress to help businesses earn more money. Here's a little information it, and how it changes roughly when the show's timeline begins: http://www.nwlink.com/~donclark/history_management/management.html More human factors are emphasized, a turn towards the power of individuals to effect changes, mirroring sociology and other developments present at the time. Like we'll see later, capitalism has a habit of taking new cultural changes, and using it to change itself for its own benefit. A slight change in its DNA so that it could itself viable and keep itself expressing. So a renewed emphasis on the individual, and their ability to effect change. Smack dab when Don Draper is really making his mark. Don is a man built for sales. Handsome, in a carefully constructed way (I keep on thinking about this thing I heard Sarah Silverman say, that she had met John Hamm before he got the show, and didn't even think he was really good looking, he just seemed like a regular dude), based on the way he carries himself, his supreme confidence, his intelligence, and his general reticience. Don's a cypher, due to a combination of ambition, fear, and unrealized self actualization, and that makes him supremely good at business. There's a frankly amazing series of essays on the Office that views it thru the lens of management that I have to cite here (and its worth reading the whole series by the way), because I think its pretty illuminating regarding Don: "Of all organization men, the true executive is the one who remains most suspicious of The Organization. If there is one thing that characterizes him, it is a fierce desire to control his own destiny and, deep down, he resents yielding that control to The Organization, no matter how velvety its grip… he wants to dominate, not be dominated…Many people from the great reaches of middle management can become true believers in The Organization…But the most able are not vouchsafed this solace." https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/ That is from a book written in the 1950s, that the author says perfectly describes how corporations work to the present day, and I am inclined to agree with. Taking the pretty well known Peter Principle, that people rise up in a business to their level of incompetence, the author, Whyte, adds another layer, saying that occurring is purposeful, and it is used to create a middle layer of "Organization Men" that can be jettisoned or manipulated according to the real masters, the executives actually running the companies. That's what's happening with Pete and Ken. Organization Men (the author of the article uses "Clueless" for them, lol, as more biting takes on management techniques occur past the 1960s) who might buy into idea of their business and working for its benefit, while all the real benefits accrue upwards. There is a way out for these types, become a necessarily exploitative executive. Or as Hugh Macleod later writes, a "Sociopath". Putting aside most of the other things that word suggests, its a handy way to focus on the utter dedication to one's own benefit that we tend to see in business organization in its most upper levels. As executives then exploit these clueless as much as they can, they then can decide to fire them, or even sell their company to make as much as money as possible, which inevitably tends to happen. Also its a funnier way to put it. Ken seems to not be clueless, but almost reach Don's level of awareness regarding his role (Don's suspicion and inabilty to buy into the illusion of corporate communality is ironically why he's so sought after by real sociopaths). Pete...not so much. Because of his easily visible gaping psychological needs, he is easily exploited to generate more revenues from sociopaths, and be happy to do so as long as he views the company as a paternal figure, instead of an exploitative one. The people most likely to be hosed by an organization are the ones that place the most trust and loyalty in it, instead of seeing it as a stepping stone, or something to be exploited in turn. Which is a pretty Marxist take as Karl was taking about workers only being able to offer their bodies were doomed to have those bodies broken in turn (I'm still reading Kapital, so you can definitely correct me there). In fact all of the above is just from reading random poo poo, its just some thoughts I had. Last thing, because I've written enough (tho I might return to this later), there is another layer below Sociopaths and Clueless. That's Losers. People who have no buy in to the idea of an organization, but are just there to get paid and leave. They know its bullshit, but also know their work is replaceable and their worth is diminutive. Their live is outside the office, and perhaps because of this, Hugh Macleod wrote, they are much more likely to be promoted to the sociopath level than the clueless, due their cynical view of the whole thing, instead of one more delusional. Maybe Ken's that. Dunno.
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Feb 16, 2021 17:01
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Torquemada posted:Breaking Bad is to Mad Men as The Shield is to The Wire. Yeah? I agree with this? I sure as hell am more likely to watch Mad Men/The Wire anyway
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Feb 19, 2021 13:49
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