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OctaviusBeaver
Apr 30, 2009

Say what now?
If Steve-o's wife came on to the scene in Jackass every five minutes and lectured them about why jumping off a balcony into a hotel pool is a dumb idea then she's being very reasonable, normal person with her own goals and motivations. But that's not why I'm watching the show.

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OctaviusBeaver
Apr 30, 2009

Say what now?
If Stan ever breaks up with Peggy she's going to die alone.

OctaviusBeaver
Apr 30, 2009

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Does anybody remember that animated fan fiction from back when the show originally aired where Paul Kinsey is a Soviet spy who holds Don at gunpoint and the self-insert protagonist saves him?

OctaviusBeaver
Apr 30, 2009

Say what now?
Found it (S4 spoilers apparently):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRU-SIlr-MA

OctaviusBeaver
Apr 30, 2009

Say what now?
There was also the thing where they would torture, murder and sometimes even eat prisoners and civilians. You don't need to go digging into propaganda to find out why the Japanese were hated. Plenty of Korean, Chinese and Filipino people hate the Japanese just as much and more than Roger does in this episode.

OctaviusBeaver
Apr 30, 2009

Say what now?
The other thing about "that's what the money is for" is that he doesn't believe it. It's established that he could easily jump to a larger firm and make way more money than he did sticking around Stirling Cooper, but he valued the creative freedom more. He knows that money isn't the only, or necessarily even the most, important thing you get out of work.

OctaviusBeaver
Apr 30, 2009

Say what now?

Admiral Bosch posted:

Okay. It's a fantastic ending. It's also incredibly cynical.

I don't think it's cynical exploitation to Don. Not any more than his Carousel ad was cynical.

OctaviusBeaver
Apr 30, 2009

Say what now?
I think that review was too harsh towards Richard. Getting up and leaving in the middle of the phone call was a bad way to do it, but I don't blame him for leaving because she wanted a completely different type of life than he did. Of course starting a production company is going to take up 90% of her time and it's going to tie her to New York (or LA I guess). If they want totally different lifestyles then breaking up is the right move.

OctaviusBeaver
Apr 30, 2009

Say what now?
I might be biased towards Richard because if I was rich I would travel and do cocaine and I think anybody who would voluntarily work in an office instead is insane.

OctaviusBeaver
Apr 30, 2009

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ram dass in hell posted:

drat can you elaborate a bit on how the 1970s were worse than slavery, manifest destiny, civil war, etc :pwn:

I mean the 1970s on haven't been great but

Shag carpets

OctaviusBeaver
Apr 30, 2009

Say what now?
I'd ask my secretary but she's dead.

OctaviusBeaver
Apr 30, 2009

Say what now?
I think Don's "Pass the Heinz" pitch was better than Peggy's. Of course the client wanted to ruin it.

A giant picture of a ketchup bottle is just lazy.

OctaviusBeaver
Apr 30, 2009

Say what now?
Most of my favorite ones were the rejects. I thought his Hilton pitch was clever and memorable. "How do you say ice water in Italian? Hilton". Connie's "Hilton on the Moon" idea is nonsense, I don't even understand what he was trying to get at by asking for that. Apparently Hilton actually did have a moon ad in the 60s, maybe it was cooler when the future of space travel looked so full of possibilities.


"Hawaii: The Jumping Off Point" was also great. Something about being by the ocean always makes me think about death but in a peaceful way, not morbid. The ad really captured that feeling of just laying down and dissolving.

I can't say I was a huge fan of the Jaguar one but I'm not the target demographic so maybe that's why. "At Last Something Beautiful You Can Truly Own" just doesn't flow well as a sentence imo. Maybe the idea could have worked but they didn't execute it particularly well. Or it might have been that they cut it in with the gross Joan/Herb scenes that ruined it for me. The scene where Ginsburg pitches it to Don is great though.

Maybe other people knew this but I had no idea that Mohawk was a real airline. You can find a couple of their commercials on youtube. This one is entirely about how much faster and more convenient it is than other airlines, there's none of Don's sentimentality. They had a computer booking system and you could buy seats that face each other so you can have your business meeting in the air. I guess they invented carry on luggage too which is a mixed blessing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBlRft8H0Og

OctaviusBeaver
Apr 30, 2009

Say what now?
Don has his virtues too. He's extremely forgiving for one thing. Pete tries to blackmail him and get him fired but Don lets it go and works with him for years and treats him like a real friend at times. The kid who works at the motel in season 7 frames him for theft and lets him take a beating, Don not only takes the blame but helps the kid get out of town and gives him his car. He lets Lane walk away free and clear after he embezzles money from the firm and doesn't give him up when Burt blames him for writing Lane's forged check.

He's generous. He came from nothing but he almost always helps people out when they need it. Midge, Danny (the teacher's brother), his brother, the motel kid, he gives Pete $50k so he can keep his partnership etc. He sees Glen having a bad day and is thoughtful enough to let him drive his car. You can say he's giving people money as a substitute for emotional closeness and that's true in some cases, but he's still at least making an effort.

I think it goes too far to say that he's "really" an alcoholic wreck instead of a handsome, charismatic advertising genius. He's both. His achievements are just as real as his flaws. Unfortunately I think he tends to show his best side to strangers and his worst side to his family.

OctaviusBeaver
Apr 30, 2009

Say what now?
I'm with Don on this one, not a huge fan of the Beatles' psychedelic stuff.

OctaviusBeaver
Apr 30, 2009

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I'd ask my secretary but she's dead.

OctaviusBeaver
Apr 30, 2009

Say what now?
I can't stop the war, Ted.

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OctaviusBeaver
Apr 30, 2009

Say what now?

quote:

Do you want to believe that everything Don just did ended up being cynical ploy just to sell sugar water (as you think right now?)

No, Don didn't work that way. Don was good at advertising because of his sincerity. The one time he tried to use cynicism to sell something was Hershey and he couldn't go through with it. The feeling may not have lasted (I think it probably didn't, like Roger's LSD it wore off), but when he was making it he was being honest about what he was feeling at the time.

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