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Hell yes, I'm pumped for this. Perfect excuse to start a rewatch. When I first watched it via Netflix by mail in 2008, as a young naif, I was genuinely shocked by the family reveal at the end of the pilot. They did such a good job of making Don such a cad, a man seemingly committed to projecting a very specific image to the people around him, that I expected him to see him wind up alone in an empty room. I maintain that Mad Men is the show that most directly carried on the legacy, voice and attitude of The Sopranos. I watched a lot of this series before I finished The Sopranos and as a result I could readily identify a later season Sopranos episode that Matt Weiner had a script credit on, just based on the mood (They were usually the ones where Tony's ennui was suffocating, where it's clear that he has everything yet longs for something. Weiner's really fixated on that concept. His other two main story tracks are "Wow, LA is really different from NYC, huh!" and "Everybody who works in television is a piece of poo poo." That seems like I'm highly critical but I do love this show; there are a few storylines I have my qualms with but overall I don't think there was ever an outright bad episode. I'm not exaggerating when I say I think about or reference this show on a daily basis.) JethroMcB fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Sep 27, 2020 |
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Sep 27, 2020 05:11
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The thing that strikes me first and foremost revisiting these early episodes is just how heavy-handed the "Holy poo poo, the 60's!" stuff is. It doesn't ever really go away - this is very much a show about its time period - but the really hacky bits like everybody coughing after discussing "safer cigarettes" and "Simple enough for a woman to use" and the plastic bag thing do fade away relatively quickly. The second thing is, holy poo poo, Young Pete! For all the attention Don gets, I think Pete Campbell may be one of the greatest television characters of all time, in terms of both how he's written and how Kartheiser portrays his gradual "evolution," physically and otherwise. i don't know that you ever like him, but...he has his moments. ("THE KING ORDERED IT!")
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Sep 28, 2020 17:24
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I wonder is Pete's complete absence was intentional, or if it was just a scheduling thing. Much like Sopranos, the pilot was filmed something like a year before the rest of the season actually went into production, with the added wrinkle that they moved production from NYC to LA. I suspect that's why a few pilot things were dropped...goodbye, switchboard girls; maybe one of you will become an indie comedy darling soon, or go on to land a decade-plus gig as the spokesperson for an insurance company.
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Sep 29, 2020 14:06
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"Direct marketing? I came up with that! Turns out it already existed... But I arrived at it independently!" The first great Pete Campbell tantrum
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Oct 4, 2020 18:08
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I hate that this thread is going to become 50% spoiler tags, but relish the ability to talk about the show. A conundrum.Escobarbarian posted:Him saying nobody ever told him he’s good with people before is such an amazing self-own too See, I think that's Pete's first real moment of self-awareness. He knows who he is, he knows his role in the company. He's willing to admit it to Don, but only in an effort to get under his skin. Xealot posted:I guess I'm kind of a sadist when it comes to Pete Campbell, though. A lot of my favorite moments involve him having a bad time. Perhaps my favorite episode of the show in general is S5E05 "Signal 30," a flawless takedown of the paper-thin masculine insecurity that defines every single problem Pete Campbell has. It's just a rock-solid episode. Signal 30 is fantastic; it sets the tone that makes the "Some...temporary bandage on a permanent wound." monologue at the end of the season such a revelation. He's not just a grimy little pimp, but a grimy little pimp with real and believable motivations as to why he's so terrible.
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Oct 5, 2020 06:29
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The guy from the bank adding "Private" back into the Executive Account branding is such a nice touch. The SC creatives are committed to making all of this very discreet, yet the client insists on making the subtext text.
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Oct 6, 2020 19:09
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Yoshi Wins posted:Pete is a jackass in this episode (unsurprisingly!), but we see that he is not 100% useless. His idea to shut Kennedy out of the Illinois ad market is clever. But it’s satisfying to see him miss out on some of the credit by letting Harry “take the blame” at first. His glee at scoring a win for Nixon makes some of his later developments, like his visible disgust at Roger's Derby Day party and sadly huddling on the couch with Trudy following JFK's assassination - wearing his finest black mourning turtleneck, no less - that much wilder. lurker2006 posted:He gets shot in the face while he's out duckhunting with ford execs and loses an eye. This starts a little arc where he becomes disillusioned with the accounts game and wants to focus on his writing but then he goes back on it. Ken was always a secondary character on the level of Silvio and Kinsey but I though his end in the show was kind of abrupt. Ken carries on a fulfilling writing career under multiple pen names, marries Larissa Oleynik, and manages to eventually take over her Dad's job as a Dow executive where all he'll really do is make things difficult for the company that made him miserable for a decade. He lost an eye and won at everything else.
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Oct 21, 2020 22:56
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KellHound posted:It's both. After Heinz, Ted and Peggy come to drink and ask if they can join the lonely hearts club. Don and Pete say how do you know we aren't celebrating, and Ted say Obery (i don't know how to spell it) does and Heinz bought it in the room. It is part of the build up to Ted wanting the merger because he assumes the same thing will happen with Chevy. Ogilvy, of real world ad firm Ogilvy and Mather. (I love the moment in "The Chrysanthemum and the Sword" when Joan surmises that at least one other ad firm has already dragged the Honda executives to Benihana, thinking they're appealing to their tastes, and one of them grumbles "...David Ogilvy.")
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Oct 22, 2020 05:12
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The Klowner posted:I feel like "the guys" have thus far too readily accepted Peggy. Like you would expect a bunch of 60s business men to feel a little more threatened by the trajectory of a young woman who's able to write and pitch copy as well as she has. It's like an idiot plot but for sexism instead of intelligence. Peggy might be able to come up with a good line on occasion, but she's just a novelty. To the boys' club, she's a secretary they can treat as an in-house focus group when needed, and saddle with account work they don't want to handle. Also, I suspect that the Rejuvenator for Men involves a prostate massager.
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Oct 30, 2020 19:07
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"Mr. Campbell...who cares?" is such a great moment. TV dramas, even in this dawning era of prestige TV, had set certain expectations for audiences, one of those being that a character holding a secret is sitting on a ticking timebomb that will, inevitably, bring ruin to them and have unimaginable fallout. Don has been cagey and apprehensive about his past all season; this big, kind of strange narrative hook in what's otherwise a pretty subdued show about a business and the interpersonal relationships of its employees. Pete Campbell, the closest thing we have to an antagonist, going to Cooper, a man we know little about but who commands immense respect within this world, with this revelatory information (in what we know to be the penultimate episode of the season) leads the viewer to believe that this is going to be explosive. And then...nothing. Cooper doesn't flinch. Don Draper is Don Draper, as far as Sterling Cooper is concerned. That's not to say that this secret will suddenly stop haunting Don - far from it - but it's not going to change anything about his circumstances. Pete's made his big play and Don didn't get fired, or whacked, or exiled. It's a moment to gently remind the audience "This is not that kind of show." Jerusalem posted:Man, I am endlessly fascinated by Pete. He's such a slimeball piece of poo poo and easily hate-able, but not in a way that I don't want to see him or get upset when he appears in a scene. On the contrary, it usually means things are gonna get super interesting. You are in for so, so many treats.
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Nov 3, 2020 16:02
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Sash! posted:I never think of Bert being evil. He simply is, like a hurricane. A hurricane that hates shoes. I always think of his scene in "Three Sundays," stepping on Sally's gum in his socks and immediately turning on the first secretary he sees smacking her lips - "YOU! Chewing your CUD..." He dismisses her before Duck swoops in with a napkin - thanks for getting Bert off the floor while they're working; just lose the gum, and go back to your desk. "He won't remember firing you."
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Nov 4, 2020 04:33
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January Jones delivers a flat line read from time to time but she also has one of my favorite "ACTING!" moments in the entire series; it's a single scene, it's an entirely physical performance, and every time I watch it I'm like "drat, that's good" all over again.
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Nov 5, 2020 05:35
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MightyJoe36 posted:Back when it originally aired on AMC, pretty much every "On the next Mad Men" preview was like this. That was a deliberate Matt Weiner troll move, the network demanded they provide previews but he kept imposing restrictions on the editing team - "You can't show anything past the first half of the episode," "You can only use the first scene of the the A plot," "Nothing with the guest star" etc. That's why by the last few seasons it was just clips of characters asking monosyllabic questions, making small talk and innocuous action/establishing shots (Don thumbing through paperwork, Betty closing a cabinet in the kitchen, Peggy thumbing through paperwork, etc.)
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Nov 5, 2020 19:15
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Yoshi Wins posted:It's when she breaks the chair in A Night to Remember, isn't it? I love season 2. It's the most underrated season IMO. That's one of the brilliant moments that makes me love it so much. It's her hallucination in "The Fog" where the silkworm drops into her hand. As she goes from admiring the worm to wrapping her fist around it, her expression shifts from dreamy wonderment to this cold, cruel smile; there's a second where her eyes go wide, marveling at her power over a living thing, and that's when I think both "Ohhh, I suddenly have an understanding of how Betty views motherhood, and it's kind of terrifying" and "This is a really good performance for somebody pretending to crush a bug on a green screen."
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Nov 7, 2020 23:11
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GoutPatrol posted:I guess this isn't a spoiler now that we've passed the episode, but I'll spoil it just in case: Wow. Doubly surprising because Harry just becomes the worst piece of poo poo over the course of the series, the lens that Weiner uses to focus his undying hatred of everything about television as a business. He's broken and remorseful here, and then by Season 5 he's double-fisting White Castles while bemoaning how much he hates his wife. But hey...he had his moment with Hildy, Goddess of the secretary pool.
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Nov 9, 2020 02:34
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Uhoh, realizing Don was supposed to be 36 by this point - so, 34 in Season 1? - is making my 36-year-old Happy Meal-rear end feel extremely oldJerusalem posted:As an aside - the White House tour aired on Valentine's Day 1962, which means over a year has passed between the last episode of season 1 (Thanksgiving 1960) and this one rather than the 2-3 months I thought? That seems like a hell of a leap in time, especially given the subject of Peggy's brief absence is still office gossip. Yes, it's about a 15 month time jump. Not a production error, as there are other events going on throughout the season that anchor it to '62. This is the season when the show stops just treating the 60's as "Things sure were different back then!" and starts really leaning into actually having historical events unfolding in the background of the characters' personal dramas. At a certain point I was watching the show with Wikipedia already open on my phone, so I could look things up and piece together where we were meant to be, time-wise, and how far we'd jumped between episodes. I never considered the implication there, though - it is kind of strange that the creative department would still be hung up on some drama with Peggy that would've occurred over a year ago at this point.
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Nov 23, 2020 16:43
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I was very excited to read the take on this episode, which (appropriately) comes out of nowhere. Did not disappoint.The Klowner posted:I promise you, it's only going to get more difficult to pare down the write-ups. Everything builds on everything else exponentially and it rules. A few seasons from now I bet you'll be making a full length post on each scene. Absolutely; I think we're within spitting distance of Jerusalem needing three full posts for a single episode*. The show gets very good, and very dense, very quickly. *"For the little one."
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Nov 28, 2020 06:59
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Great write-up. I think Three Sundays is one of my favorite episodes of the series. Big Don speech, devastating final line, and the whole sequence of Palm Sunday at Sterling Cooper has such a realistic "off-day" vibe. (I love seeing everybody's "casual" officewear...Pete's tennis whites, my God.)
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Dec 5, 2020 21:33
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"...my gum is in my mouth!"
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Dec 6, 2020 18:47
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During my first viewing of the series the "Mozart" scene was the first time I think I really noticed Feddy as a recurring character, rather than just A Guy at Sterling Cooper. Doubly crazy given how important he was to Peggy's S1 arc.
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Dec 10, 2020 17:24
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KellHound posted:I'm also gonna add a counter example. Mission Hill is a really good show, but a lot of what it's about reflects better on right now rather than early 2000s when it came out. And while it's quick with it's writing and has a unique world view, it didn't go longer than a season. If it came out now would have probably done better or at least well enough to get renewed a couple of times. See, I think the show could only work when it did, because in 2020 the Mission Hills of American cities have largely been gentrified to hell and back. The creators have said that, had the show continued, the long-term plot was for Andy to achieve Matt Groening-level success as a cartoonist, becoming absolutely miserable and jaded in the process. With that kind of cynicism so entrenched in the show's DNA, I suspect a running background plot about the gradual death of the neighborhood would've been in there as well. GoutPatrol posted:I believe both of those shows were made directly to get some of that Mad Men chum runoff. Both tried to get viewers by saying "its the 60s (like Mad Men), on Network TV!" And they both blew chunks, the end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNVWqdxNWpU Here's the Playboy Club pilot if anybody's interested in seeing a few minutes of that. It definitely feels like network execs said "We get why people watch Mad Men: Costuming. Women wear colorful dresses, and all the stoic guys wear suits and Brylcreem the crap outta their hair. Just slap any ol' primetime soap plot on it, if attractive people look good in period outfits, people will tune in." (That Youtube account is a pro follow, by the way. Guy has been uploading pilots for fairly short-lived series on there for a while, some going back as far as the mid-90's. Quality's not the best, but where else are you going to see the first episode of The Brotherhood of Poland, New Hampshire or Wednesday 9:30 (8:30 Central)?)
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Dec 15, 2020 06:57
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MightyJoe36 posted:Duck makes Don look like a good guy. Feel like they had Duck abandon a dog to make Don's treatment of Bobbie in the same episode seem less egregious by contrast And it works! Eat poo poo Duck.
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Dec 15, 2020 21:52
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Don's dismissive "...puppets." in the Martinson's pitch is a reference to the Wilkins Coffee television advertisements that were among Jim Henson's earliest (and darkest-humored) work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmhIizQQol0 The picnic scene is what most people probably remember about this episode; it's shocking and funny and also one of the last big "Haha, this is just how things were back then!" gag moments in the series that I remember. What should stick with people is Cooper's "Philanthropy is the gateway to power" scene, which is maybe one of the greatest truths the show ever put out there. JethroMcB fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Dec 21, 2020 |
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Dec 21, 2020 01:41
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Spirits are definitely an acquired taste and the best way to do that is find a cocktail that takes the edge off the harsh notes but still lets you appreciate the character of the liquor. For example,VinylonUnderground posted:Pre-prohibition old fashions (the kind without muddled fruit) are also great. Is a great starter. A little sugar, a shake of bitters, a slug of whiskey and some club soda to fill it out. It's not too cloying but it does just enough to tame the pure alcohol taste. My pet theory is that Don drinks whiskey like a mad man (Hey, that's the name of the show!) because a modern Canadian Club bottle looks extremely similar to a bottle from the 60's, so it reads on camera very quickly and it was easier for the props department to procure those. (A quick Google tells me that eventually the production did reach out to Canadian Club and the company supplied a full case of new "vintage" bottles for use in the show.)
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Dec 28, 2020 21:22
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Yoshi Wins posted:Don seems like a whiskey man in general, doesn't he? He strives to project masculinity, and it probably has the most masculine image of the well-known liquors. I'm not sure why Roger drinks vodka. It feels right, somehow, but I'm not sure why. Vodka makes sense for Roger's straightforward, no-nonsense personality. Sterling very rarely beats around the bush, his usual MO is to tell you exactly what he wants, and he'll typically follow that up by letting you know that he has the means to get it. His drink of choice is similarly lean, mean and clean. "Help yourself - NOT the Stoli." A great character moment and one of the most effective product placement spots I can think of. JethroMcB fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Dec 29, 2020 |
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Dec 29, 2020 03:45
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Grammarchist posted:My memory of the seventh season is really shaky and I'm not sure I ever saw, or at least remembered the finale. In fact, I forgot most of the series and it's a lot easier to have everything broken down like this. A lot of the final season is hazy to me, but the finale itself is very memorable in that nothing major happens, it's primarily epilogue to what happened a few episodes prior. Also, Brett Gelman's there sunbathing naked and it throws ~*~my immersion~*~ out the window. "...Did Don Draper just stumble into an episode of Eagleheart?"
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Jan 4, 2021 21:25
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Heineken: "Brand integration with your series is seamless. We'd love to do a product placement spot that could make Heineken a memorable entry in the Sterling-Cooper portfolio." Mad Men: "Just remember: You asked for this."
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Jan 5, 2021 20:04
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pentyne posted:Did the show have any sponsored placements? I remember later in the show the brands would make jokes on twitter whenever they'd get featured in an unflattering light. Looking around online, I can't find a ton of concrete info on which brands paid for the privilege and which just went along with it. An article I read had a quote from an AMC exec playing coy, saying that their aim was that the audience should never be able to tell the difference between a sponsored spot and the characters organically discussing a brand. One AdAge article did confirm at least two "structured" product appearances in the third season premiere - London Fog and Stoli vodka both apparently paid for the privilege.
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Jan 6, 2021 17:38
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Freddy forgot to play Mozart this time
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Jan 13, 2021 01:35
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BrotherJayne posted:Ugh, that would have been great. And a re-return of Paul. At least Harry makes it through Harry's worse than all of them.
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Jan 15, 2021 01:46
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I don't always love Mad Men's sojourns to California but I think this one really works because of Willy, Joy and their entourage. They're just so weird, as though like they walked in from a different show in a different genre altogether, and it does a great job of getting the viewer in Don's mindset. There's always a level of discomfort being around them, even though they're fascinating. I'm torn (no pun intended) on Don ripping the last page out of the book. It's been a while since I read it, but from my recollections having the narrative stop midsentence would be perfectly on-brand for the rest of the text.
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Jan 23, 2021 00:09
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Greg is just The Worst. I'm consistently amazed at how many little details and character moments there are in passing so early in the show that don't really carry weight until much later. This time, it's Anna noting the importance of The World in Don's tarot reading.
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Jan 27, 2021 05:58
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Pete's response is most definitely motivated first and foremost by seeing Trudy take the lead on it - his wife making this kind of decision is antithetical to his whole "noble, stoic hunter returning home to a waiting dinner" fantasy - but there is also some fear of commitment at play there, not necessarily of adoption itself but of saying farewell to his youth. Pete very much likes being where he is, a relatively carefree guy with a lot of disposable income, a nice midtown Manhattan highrise apartment and a loving wife (who he occasionally steps out on.)The introduction of a child into that world, biological or not, is going to suddenly introduce stakes to his life and definitively close a chapter he's still enjoying.
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Jan 27, 2021 21:01
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The Klowner posted:Clearly you've never seen the show. It's right there on the wikipedia page: God I hope fanart exists of this
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Jan 29, 2021 16:52
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GoutPatrol posted:Don gets away with so much because he looks good. Hell, the Carousel pitch depends on him and his family looking the way they do. Except Don's advice is sound, more or less "Read the room, address the previous offense with a sense of humor, but do NOT explicitly apologize because the client will read that as weakness. They've already agreed to a second meeting, so what you did clearly was not a deal-breaker for them, we still have leverage here." Don even gives Mathis the appropriate angle - "Go in with a bar of soap, tell them you've got it on hand in case you need to wash your mouth out." Prop humor, but it addresses the elephant in the room and turns it into a self-effacing thing. Instead, Mathis just parrots the exact line from the story Don told him - A bawdy one - knowing that being coarse was what got him in hot water in the first place, and then blames Don for bad advice. Mathis sucks.
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Feb 1, 2021 02:14
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My grandfather once told me about how my second cousin (or somesuch relation) was born during the height of the Cuban Missile Crisis, and that when the family went to see him in the hospital nursery he was just standing there thinking "Well, it's a shame he'll be dead with all the rest of us in the next 48 hours." I thought this episode did a good job of capturing that mood, everybody going through the motions of even major life events with a pervasive dread and sense of resignation in the back of their minds.ulvir posted:I might be misremembering, but didn’t Mathis end up taking Don’s advice in completely the opposite way? Like instead of making a light-hearted joke about himself with the soap, he just further insulted the client? I never read that as Don getting away with it over “being handsome” but more Mathis not understanding how to defuse a situation at all. You don’t need to look good to make light of something and turn a new page Don tells him a story about how, as a young creative guy, he spoke up in a meeting with Lucky Strike when he wasn't supposed to be heard at all. When the client came back for a make-good meeting, Don started by greeting them with "You've got some balls, coming back in here after you embarrassed yourself like that." Which is, to be fair, a line that Don Draper can get away with and Mathis could not, but also the kind of humor that works when dealing with people like the Garners, guys with very brusque and bawdy characters. Mathis had offended the reps from Peter Pan by swearing when they criticized the creative work being shown, indicating that they're more "morally upstanding" kind of people. Mathis lets them walk in and starts the meeting using the exact "You've got some balls" line from Don's story, because he clearly figures that if Don Draper said it, it must work. When that line blows up in his face and costs them the account, he decides that it didn't work only because Don gets away with everything, not that he misread the entire situation front to back. JethroMcB fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Feb 1, 2021 |
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Feb 1, 2021 17:07
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Even more satisfying than Don's "I don't have a contract" reveal is how quickly Powell dismisses Duck from the meeting. One gets the feeling that, even if Duck's scheme to sell out his employers and rule them like a tyrant had worked out exactly has he'd planned, the Brits were not going to hold up their end of the bargain the second the deal was closed. A possibility that Duck - blinded by his ego and grievances - somehow never even managed to consider. This is a more dramatic betrayal than anything on Game of Thrones or its ilk.
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Feb 2, 2021 09:47
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Started Season 3 yesterday in anticipation and there's so much incredible stuff I've forgotten about. Pete's college chum Ho-Ho and his absolutely insane obsession that Jai Alai is the future of American sport. I can't believe this storyline didn't stick with me, because everything about it has a sitcom-level escalation of absurdities. Somehow his ask that Sterling-Cooper produce a TV series with the sport's star player as the leading man - AND that it be aired on all 3 major networks, in color, simultaneously - isn't the craziest part of the bit. (I think that may be a later scene where he states to Don and Pete that the posh restaurant they're in will be serving "nothing but rum and Mexican beer" within a year, ostensibly tied to the meteoric rise of Jai Alai.)
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Feb 3, 2021 17:43
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Trucking along, already onto Season 4. So glad to finally be in the SCDP offices. Always liked that space more than the original SC set. Had to stop myself from posting a wall of black bars about the back half of season 3, I'll just have to wait until the recaps roll around to really start spouting off.
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Feb 4, 2021 22:50
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I had forgotten about how quickly Hooker works to establish himself as the alpha of the office and his intensely smug attitude. His comeuppance-on-fast-forward at the end of this episode ("Let me just steal Joan's idea and claim it as my own. Oh, drat, my boss hates this idea and has promptly reprimanded me!") is immensely satisfying.Jerusalem posted:It's hard to say what to make of the "flashback" scenes that precede Don and Betty in bed together though. This is the start of the third season of the show, and it's wonderful to have it back.. but this felt very self-indulgent. There's no denying it was shot extremely well and the sets and art direction were top notch, even if the music (which felt straight out of a Ken Burns Civil War documentary) was a little much... but what the hell is Don seeing? These aren't memories, most of them were from before he was born. Did somebody tell him all this? That this is where he got his original name? What his prostitute mother's deathbed words were? How his mean drunk of a father negotiated terms for screwing her without a condom etc? Season 3 was when I started watching the show as it aired, and I remember settling in on a Sunday night with a glass of whiskey and that opening really throwing me for a loop - just so, so uncharacteristic of what had come before. Though a few details enter "How exactly did the housekeeper hear Kane say 'Rosebud' when he died?" territory, I do think what we're seeing is the fact of the matter, not a Draper fabrication. There's some clarification as the season goes along where he could have gotten the whole story. It's easy to fill in the blanks that Abigail - an abusive woman who loved to remind him that he's not her child - probably repeated a lot of those details to him over the years. I can also imagine a scenario where "Uncle Mack," who Don indicates he had a good relationship with, gave him the unvarnished turth in an attempt to help young Don understand why his "Mother" kept saying such terrible things about him. GoutPatrol posted:Old Bobby is dead, long live New Bobby Bobby Draper is like Pokémon, just undergoing diverse evolutions until he achieves his final form ("Bobby Who Can Hold His Own in a Scene Where He Has More Than 2 Lines")
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Feb 9, 2021 17:43
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