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gradenko_2000 posted:would anyone be willing to effort-post about the history behind these two countries and/or their current political climates? I only have the vaguest idea about this region. Let's begin in the aftermath of the February Revolution in Russia where the Armenian and Azerbaijani republics (and Georgia too) were declared. There's a lot of Armenians and Azerbaijanis in Nakhichevan (map), Zangezur (map), Nagorno-Karabakh, (map) at this time. War erupted between the two states (which was really just a continuation of fighting at had been occurring since the Ottoman Army advanced through the region in 1918, but you know gotta have a cut off somewhere) and lasted until the Red Army of new Soviet Union invaded both nations. So the Soviets set up a committee headed by Josef Stalin to settle the matter. He assigns Nakhichevan to Azerbaijan as a autonomous republic, Zangezur to Armenia as a part of it, and Nagorno-Karabakh to Azerbaijan as an autonomous oblast. The problem here being Nagorno-Karabakh is overwhelming Armenian. Nakhichevan's Armenian population mostly moved to the new Armenian SSR, but those in Karabakh did not. Fast forward to 1988. The Regional Soviet of Karabakh, encouraged by Gorbachev's glasnost, votes to unite the oblast with Armenia SSR and requests the intercession of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR into the matter. The main complaints being that Heydar Aliyev (father of the current Azerbaijan President) is surpassing the Armenian language, decrease the amount of Armenians living there, favoring Azerbaijanis, etc. Any why the Supreme Soviet sends some mixed signals, but Gorbachev eventually comes down firmly against. Armenians strike and protest; Azerbaijanis counterprotest. The two sides clash at Askeran leaving two Azerbaijanis dead. This triggers the Sumgait pogrom a few days latter as dozens of Armenians are killed and Soviet authorities fail to react quickly to curb the violence. This sends a shockwave through the Armenian community and demands for Karabakh to be transferred to Armenia intensify as Armenians flee Azerbaijan. The Supreme Soviet now formally refuses and deploys soldiers into Armenia. A stalemate ensues until the end of the year as ethnic violence flares and Azerbaijan begin to flee to Azerbaijan. Then that December 1988 a earthquake levels the country and kills tens of thousands Armenians. Gorbachev arrests the entire Karabakh Committee a few days after and any Armenian faith left for the USSR collapses. The Azerbaijani Popular Front is founded and rapidly rises in support. This alarms the Kremlin who attempt and fail to suppress the rising nationalistic sentiment that's rising across its Caucasus union republics. (Georgian-Abkhaz conflict waves) Fast forward one year to January '90 and Boku pogrom occurs and Popular Front seizes the border crossing with Iran. Gorbachev declares a state of emergency and deploys the Soviet Army who kill dozens and wound hundreds of Azerbaijanis. Which sparks stronger nationalistic feelings across the country. Armenian paramilitaries begin to attack Azerbaijani enclaves inside Armenia this year and Armenian and Soviet forces are opening firing on each other. The Supreme Soviet of Armenia declares it's independence in August 1990. Armenia boycotts the 1991 referendum on keeping and reforming the USSR. Azerbaijan votes to keep the USSR. The Soviets launch Operation Ring a month later and begin the full scale deportation of Armenians from Nagorno-Karabakh in attempt to intimidate Armenia into giving up its demands, but backfires as the situation becomes a full on civil war until the August Coup a few months after brings the Union to an end. Republic of Artsakh is proclaimed and as Armenian forces advance its now Azerbaijani's who are expelled from the region. Azerbaijan forces placed Stepanakert, the capital of Nagorno-Karabakh, under siege. Which is lifted when Armenia forces capture Shusha and Khojaly (where Armenian forces shamefully massacre at least 200 civilians.) Azerbaijan pretty much gets bodied over the course of the rest of the war and Azerbaijan President Ayaz Mutallibov is ousted as losses continue. Abulfaz Elchibey, the chairman of the Popular Front, becomes President and precedes to alienate Iran with his anti-Iranian and Pan-Turkish irredentism so much that Iran supplies Armenian with energy and fuel. This countered the blockade on Armenia imposed by Turkey and the shutdown of its nuclear power plant due to damage from the '88 earthquake. Mutallibov would be overthrown and replaced by Heydar Aliyev as the war losses kept coming and a ceasefire was signed. Currently Azerbaijan is run by the Aliyey family with Heydar's son succeeding him in 2003. Armenia had a revolution in 2018 that brought Nikol Pashinyan to power on an anti-corruption message. Although I haven't looked into how successful that's been.
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Sep 28, 2020 07:24
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Vasukhani posted:Yup, The perpetrators of the pogroms were the beloved anti-soviet activists who founded such glorious states as the baltic states and Ukraine. Nationalism is a brain disease Feeling like you glossed over a lot of what I wrote about how Soviet decisions were at the root of the issue and then worsened instead of easing the situation later on.
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Sep 28, 2020 08:14
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Vasukhani posted:crazy how the soviet union was defined by 70 years of ethnic violence I'd appreciate if you articulated your views a little more thoroughly than this. As I view the Soviets handing Nagorno-Karabakh to Azerbaijan as the root cause of current situation. Along with Gorbachev's doing nothing, doing to little to late, and than going so heavy handed in the early 90s that he turns both sides against the then current Soviet system, but I suppose that sort of discussion belongs in the history thread. On to current events: The fighting is continuing as Azerbaijan brings up its TOS rocket systems: https://twitter.com/ShStepanyan/status/1310483306048348160?s=20 Armenian wounded has doubled to 200 Partial Mobilization ordered in Azerbaijan. Translated from Russian.
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Sep 28, 2020 08:53
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http://nkrmil.am/news/view/2920 Artsakh listed the names of 28 soldiers killed today the 28th. Recent statements from Erdogan https://twitter.com/TRTWorldNow/status/1310543977205071873?s=20
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Sep 28, 2020 13:05
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One day old friend. One day... https://twitter.com/Joelrookwood/status/735132612134588416?s=19
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Sep 29, 2020 02:53
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https://twitter.com/ShStepanyan/status/1310852092215595008?s=20 https://twitter.com/ShStepanyan/status/1310852449335418880?s=20 I don't think Armenia will trigger CSTO unless Turkey decides to directly attack or the Azerbaijani Army directly crosses in Armenia proper, but it's clear the war is widening. Al-Saqr posted:So as it stands who has the bigger military dick here? It’s probably Azerbaijan what with their deals with Israel/Turkey? I mean barring any Russian intervention do they have enough stuff to fight back against Azerbaijan? Azerbaijan has the larger and more high tech military, but are attacking into very strong defensive positions. Tanks having to roll in single file on a narrow road or across open fields that the other side has a clear view of and a height advantage over has poor results. I would say Armenian morale and willingness to fight is much higher as well. From what I can tell the biggest advantage Azerbaijan has is its drone fleet.  Kazinsal posted:Air Forces: Armenia has 4 Su-30s and 14 Su-25s; Azerbaijan has 5 MiG-21s, 12 MiG-29s, and 12 Su-25s. I believe attacking Nakhchivan is a red line for Turkey. I don't think we'll see either side strike there. https://twitter.com/517design/status/1310855178392940544?s=20 Probably just scapegoating over why they haven't rolled over the region yet, but if true then lol
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Sep 29, 2020 09:40
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Ghost of Mussolini posted:Where is your source for this? He's probably citing this: https://twitter.com/Iran_Military/status/1310876097001795584?s=20 but this isn't an actual Twitter account of the Iranian military.
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Sep 29, 2020 11:22
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https://t.me/reartsakh/3686 Video of a shoot down of an Azerbaijani Orbiter-1K. Didn't realize how popular Telegram is for news and stuff over there.
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Sep 29, 2020 14:43
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Well poo poo. Turkish F-16s are operating out of the Ganja Airport in Azerbaijan and have shot down an Armenian Su-25 over Armenia airspace. Pilot is dead. https://www.facebook.com/shushanstepanyan/posts/3283559811680156 translation quote:Today, at 10:30, F-16 fighters of the Turkish air force took off from the Ganja airport of the Republic of Azerbaijan and provided bombing attacks from Turkish-made Bayraktar UAVs on localities and ground units of the Armenian armed forces located in the regions of Vardenis, Mets masrik, Sotk of Vardenis, Vardenis and Mets masrik, Sotk: edit: beaten
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Sep 29, 2020 15:08
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https://twitter.com/Archer83Able/status/1310949976801976321?s=20 Turkey and Azerbaijan have denied that a Turkish F-16 has shot down an Armenian Su-25. Edit: tweets form official news agency: https://twitter.com/MuradGazdiev/status/1310940360886095876?s=19 https://twitter.com/MuradGazdiev/status/1310951011343884291?s=19
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Sep 29, 2020 15:55
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https://twitter.com/ArmenianUnified/status/1311226444207579136?s=20 Pictures of the downed Su-25.
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Sep 30, 2020 11:26
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https://twitter.com/MuradGazdiev/status/1311308080869765121?s=19 This video taken from the Iran side of the border does a good job of showing just how mountainous the frontline is. https://twitter.com/MuradGazdiev/status/1311288727751266310?s=19 Hmmm. I wonder what timetable here is? It'll be winter soon. Once snow starts to fall offensive operations won't be possible.
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Oct 1, 2020 00:35
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https://twitter.com/ShStepanyan/status/1311576204705763333?s=19 There's between some talk (but nothing that I feel confirms) that the Iran military is moving to secure it's border with Azerbaijan and Artsakh. I can see it being true though as the fighting spills over.
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Oct 1, 2020 09:04
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https://twitter.com/MuradGazdiev/status/1311649048659742721?s=19 The two are journalists with Le Monde. One is reportedly in critical condition.
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Oct 1, 2020 15:48
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Atrocious Joe posted:https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1311565933383688192?s=20 Those are tweets from Rob Lee are from the July clashes btw.
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Oct 1, 2020 17:10
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https://twitter.com/cavidaga/status/1311674213942595584?s=19 Oh boy... Iranian authorities aren't going to look kindly on those types of chants. https://twitter.com/cavidaga/status/1311694685967179776?s=19 Some potential political moves.
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Oct 1, 2020 17:36
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All links to articles on nations relations are broken for me.
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Oct 1, 2020 17:57
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:ehh... not as good as turbo folk https://twitter.com/armenia/status/1311967519289286661?s=19 Armenia will not allow a music video gap! https://twitter.com/clashreport/status/1311723596411211777?s=19 I read that this account has some connections to the Turkish General Staff and if this is remotely true then some truly delusional thinking is happening in the upper Turks circles.
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Oct 2, 2020 13:24
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Al-Saqr posted:So like does anyone have any idea what the state of things are and who's 'Winning'? It's hard to say since unlike in Syria this is a real conventional war between nation-states with armies that actually care about opsec. Today saw the heaviest fighting of the war so far though. If I had to provide an armchair analysis from what informarion we've seen online. I'd say Azerbaijan hasn't made any real territorial gains so far. As all we're seeing is drone footage from them. Whereas on the Armenian side we're seeing videos of Azerbaijani tank columns and infantry attacks being repulsed along with shoot downs of helicopters and drones. Now this could just be an opening strategy to wear down Armenian defense positions with drone strikes and Syrian mercenaries as cannon fodder. Armenian Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan gave a speech today and he mentioned that there's been many human, hardware, and civilian losses. He said however that the "Artsakh Defense Army has already carried out active counter-offensive operations, achieved significant success, obliterating several enemy special unit battalions." Other Armenian accounts are echoing news of a successful counterattack, but we'll have to see what that entails. Georgia has reportedly (1)ceased allowing the transport of military goods through, so we'll see who has better supply and resupply. 1: https://twitter.com/MuradGazdiev/status/1312298125290360833?s=19 Syrian groups still have bad opsec. https://twitter.com/MuradGazdiev/status/1312372865937932289?s=19
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Oct 3, 2020 15:34
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https://twitter.com/MuradGazdiev/status/1312443790188191744?s=19 Neither Azerbaijan nor Armenia are signatories to the Convention on Cluster Munitions. This is a significant escalation in the war.
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Oct 3, 2020 19:25
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Vasukhani posted:Armenian MoD reporting that they just hit Azeri targets with strategic weapons, probably Iskanders Specifically it's the Ganja airbase that has been targeted. https://twitter.com/ArmenianUnified/status/1312650060614823937?s=19
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Oct 4, 2020 08:11
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Vasukhani posted:Azeris are also reporting strikes in two other cities. Ganja airbase is right in the middle of the town too. If something were to spark a general war, this is it. It's already a general war. Azerbaijan already stuck Vardenis in Armenia proper a few days ago. Edit: I like to note Armenian MoD denies these strikes were launched from Armenia. https://twitter.com/ArmenianUnified/status/1312650841329934336?s=19 The announcement of these strikes come from Infocom's telegram channel, citing Vahram Poghosyan, Arayik's (President of Artsakh) spokesman. OhFunny has issued a correction as of 08:22 on Oct 4, 2020 |
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Oct 4, 2020 08:16
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Pryor on Fire posted:This won't work against the thermal cameras and targeting systems of missiles. Maybe if the decoys were steel and you heat them up. And that fake Sherman is from WW2, there were never used in WW1 aside from training. If the shoot down count is anywhere near correct then Azerbaijani's drone fleet is sustaining heavy losses.
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Oct 4, 2020 08:29
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Pryor on Fire posted:Where are the numbers on how many drones have been shot down and how many they have? https://twitter.com/ArmenianUnified/status/1312463807403360256?s=20 I've been getting my numbers from here. As for Azerbaijani's total inventory who knows.
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Oct 4, 2020 09:04
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Vasukhani posted:lol dude, I think this source might be a tiny bit inflated We don't really have any better sources than the two sides estimates and I don't see why modern war wouldn't produce high causalities in a short period of time.
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Oct 4, 2020 09:15
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Vasukhani posted:https://twitter.com/HovhanNaz/status/1312668896726523904 https://twitter.com/HovhanNaz/status/1312673281493925889?s=20 lol
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Oct 4, 2020 09:57
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https://twitter.com/MuradGazdiev/status/1312693150054526977?s=20 https://twitter.com/MuradGazdiev/status/1312707912507285505?s=20 https://twitter.com/IgorZhdanovRT/status/1312686001010216965?s=20
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Oct 4, 2020 12:36
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Atrocious Joe posted:Armenia using their ballistic missiles? https://twitter.com/ShStepanyan/status/1312836737459257348?s=20 One official tweeted out this (now deleted) as proof: https://i.imgur.com/QXenZSw.png But it's a video from the 2018 Gaza War https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX3zvbi9AXg OhFunny has issued a correction as of 21:44 on Oct 4, 2020 |
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Oct 4, 2020 21:37
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Mister Bates posted:Azerbaijan only has a total of about 600 tanks so if that were true they'd be suing for peace right now lol, losing over half of their armored forces in days would be an absolutely crushing defeat Tanks aren't the only type of armored vehicle.
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Oct 4, 2020 22:02
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Atrocious Joe posted:Armenia looks like it's denying that a missile came "from the territory of Armenia," which means it still could have come from Nagorno-Karabakh. Denied by Artsakh officials as well. https://twitter.com/Shirinyan/status/1312832797590069248?s=20 Vasukhani posted:
-Denied the presence of Syria mercenaries. (Which was false) -Claimed their forces had found Arayik Harutyunyan, the President of the Artaskh Republic, wounded on the front-line (Which was false) -Insisted today on RT that Stepanakert has not been bombed (Which was false) I see no reason to trust these reports that Mingicevir or the outskirts of Baku itself have been attacked.
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Oct 4, 2020 23:01
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Pryor on Fire posted:Both sides seem to be going hard on propaganda and wishful thinking. Are there any independent journalists who made it into the area worth following on twitter? All I can find are cheerleaders for one side or the other. Reporters on the Armenian side of the frontline were in Stepanakert and have evacuated the city due to the current bombing. WarGozno looks to still be near the front, but he posts in Russian and via Telegram. A lot of reports and statements seem to posted on Telegram instead of Twitter. Could simply be the more popular social app there. So I guess the answer is no? https://twitter.com/Obs_IL/status/1313040272192921600?s=20 Someone high up from Russia just arrived in Armenia.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:24
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This isn't the Central Asian thread Jose. This is the Azerbaijan-Armenia War thread.
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Oct 6, 2020 00:21
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Atrocious Joe posted:https://twitter.com/KyleWOrton/status/1313474137566916609?s=20 https://twitter.com/NatGold1/status/1313474617827188736?s=19 The dreaded Armenian-Hezbollah Axis.
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Oct 6, 2020 19:47
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I wonder how long it'll last. The article notes it's a temporary truce in order to exchange prisoners and recover dead bodies. Edit: I see the article has been changed. "substantive" talks will now begin according to Lavrov. OhFunny has issued a correction as of 03:02 on Oct 10, 2020 |
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Oct 10, 2020 02:08
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Vasukhani posted:what appears to have been an armenian ballistic missile wiped out an apartment block in Ganja, killing ten. Ceasefire so so very dead. The ceasefire never lived. Azerbaijan attacked Hadrut and has continued to bomb Stepanakert. https://twitter.com/MuradGazdiev/status/1315017963775438850?s=19 https://twitter.com/IgorZhdanovRT/status/1315263915622838274?s=19
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Oct 11, 2020 20:12
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Vasukhani posted:drat its a shame there can't be one big state that helps maintain these tiny ethnicities while supporting them and providing security. Oh and who should that be? Who do you think that should be? There's a very clear set of three options and I'd love to know how you think any one of them is going to work out here in the year 2020. OhFunny has issued a correction as of 01:57 on Oct 14, 2020 |
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Oct 14, 2020 01:50
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https://twitter.com/UnitedHumanity5/status/1315382419239964673?s=20 Feeling like maybe it's tad unwise to stand at the literal border of a war zone to watch the heavy exchange of heavy caliber guns and rocket artillery. OhFunny has issued a correction as of 06:33 on Oct 14, 2020 |
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Oct 14, 2020 06:23
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Vasukhani posted:This is very fake unless Iranians have a Russian announcer who explaining what each weapon system is That's good to know. I thought that was the Iranian flag on the flagpole.
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Oct 14, 2020 20:07
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https://twitter.com/naghdalyan/status/1317534657160925184?s=19 Another ceasefire attempt.
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Oct 17, 2020 20:27
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Vasukhani posted:this is the most useful map so far I got real confused until I tilted my head and realized the map has South and North on the left and right instead of bottom and top.
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Oct 18, 2020 00:59
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