- Smik
- Mar 18, 2014
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I’m looking from some feedback on my fantasy novel. In the writing thread, Leng suggested this would be a good place so here it goes.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/10-2C2xG5kUQLGKscHneohwRW88G3ffh8/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=107950934718105266587&rtpof=true&sd=true
This is the opening section, it’s around 7000 words. Still working on my pitch but the basic premise is the main character is a former assassin who's become a kind of self-employed security consultant.
I’d say it’s a cross between Terry Pratchett’s Discworld, specifically Night Watch, and Scott Lynch’s Lies of Lock Lamora series. Its primary goal is to be funny but occasionally it might make some kind of broader point.
I’ve pretty much halved the novel since finishing the first draft and I’d be really grateful to get some eyes on it to see if it works. My partner has read it but at this point we’ve both read the thing so many times we’ve lost all perspective. Maybe it's good, maybe it's bad, maybe I accidentally deleted a lot of necessary information that we are just inferring the existence of it. Impossible to know.
Anyway, thanks to anyone willing to give it a look!
I read it and think it's fantastic. I've never had a chance to read Pratchett -- one of those things I'm supposed to do and never get around to actually doing -- so my closest experience is more "Hitchhiker's Guide" but I'm going to guess that's pretty close. Little confusing in the opening but I got my footing pretty easily.
I was a little confused by the tiny kingdom at first but with context I'm assuming the whole place is full of tiny kingdoms like that. Thought the humour worked really well.
Smik fucked around with this message at 08:48 on Jan 22, 2023
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Jan 22, 2023 08:43
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May 14, 2024 23:36
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- Smik
- Mar 18, 2014
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I've been working on a story for awhile now and am on revision seven. I played around with the narrative a bit and I need some feedback on this version. I've passed it around to a few people and while they seem to like it, I guess it's time to show it to some complete strangers to get a real feel if it works or not.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/11iAVDB9F90tnabrrdb2LaaxfJNv7pzfhldbfDyFp4ig/edit?usp=sharing
I've posted 11,000 words in the Google Docs file.
A supernatural investigator discovers the only way he can clear his client's haunting is by having the spirit haunt him instead. The exert includes introducing the client, protagonist and the eccentric supernatural organization that he gets some of his equipment and information from.
I kinda describe it as "Ghostbusters crossed with Pokémon" except there's no proton packs or traps or stuffing things into balls but there is the supernatural, dealing with them is a business, and there is a sort of "I choose you" aspect...
Smik fucked around with this message at 10:59 on Jan 22, 2023
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Jan 22, 2023 09:08
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- Smik
- Mar 18, 2014
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I’m guessing what you’re looking for is a crit on narrative voice? One thing I noticed is the grammar itself is a bit too formal to match the more colloquial tone you’re going for. For one, you rarely use contractions—not in the first page of dialogue or in the narration. Using a lot more contractions everywhere will help the narrative flow and help the voice you’re going for.
You also tend to use “had” in a lot of sentences that would benefit from more immediacy, but that’s a minor detail.
Punchier sentences would also help give it a more noir tone. Here’s an example of the kinda changes you could make:
“His client left his mansion grounds haggard (insert speculation regarding a lack of gardener perhaps): trees torn and twisted, branches littering the grass (insert creepy simile), mouldy stonework. (Fowl adjective) mushrooms dotted the lawn in circles. The small pond next to shattered remains of a statue was a stinking (another fowl adjective) unhealthy green. Practically cliché for a faerie haunting.”
I’ve broken it up into shorter sentences to try to improve the rhythm, dropped excess verbiage, and rearranged the sentence structure in various ways.
All the time you want to consider whose pov you’re seeing details from. Right now you’re omnicient, but even an omnicient pov can benefit by coloring the details so everything is presented with an attitude. You have to decide how closely you want that omnicient pov to zoom into the character’s heads, because in that case this house would be seen through the protagonist’s eyes and you have to insert his opinions about everything. That’s what a noir tone, even a comical one like this one (and like Dirk Gently), does best.
Like, in the next bit where you describe the clients, it’s all distant and formal and matter-of-fact when instead it oughta be Carter’s read on these people the entire time, rather than the one point you barely dip into his head with, “JD suspected there might have been an additional half-child to complete the statistical expectations…” Do more of this—do it with everything, all the time.
I’m also not sure if omnicient is the best pov choice, because the whole thing would be stronger and more consistent sticking to Carter’s pov. His interaction with the guard, we don’t need to know what the guard thinks but rather Carter assuming what the guard must be thinking. Same for the interactions with his client. His pov in the intro is of course fine, but later we don’t need it. Carter can assume this gated-community white dude is mistrustful and trying to rationalize him as “one of the good ones.” Carter’s opinion on that would be way more interesting. Like this…
This is the kind of thing you can slightly edit to make this Carter’s thought, cause he’d be well aware of where he stands with these kinda people.
Another thing, regarding your protag’s blackness—don’t be afraid to lean just a little bit into AAVE. Now I say that with a caveat—don’t go too hard and make drat sure you know exactly how AAVE works before you use something (like the habitual aspect “be”). But do use a fuckton of contractions in his dialogue when he’s not code switching. Don’t be afraid of “gotta, woulda, coulda, haveta, y’all, s’posed, cause, till, aight…”
What I mean by code switching is this: “Unless I can get inside and start looking for evidence I don’t know what to call it yet. You want to come with me to watch me work?” This is fine. He’s likely making his speech less ”black” to talk to rich white people here, but you can actually acknowledge that (maybe earlier with the guard), and have him speak way less formally when he’s not talking to clients and whatnot.
For example here: “Good. Aight, let’s get to business.” He’s still talking to rich white guy, so that would be a slip. You could either call attention to that, or go the opposite way with, “All right,” he drew out all the letters so they sat just right… or somesuch. Since you’re leaning comical, you could even have him lightly parodying the people he’s talking to by taking on some of their mannerisms to try to put them at ease while laughing inside.
Overall the story itself is engaging and the humor adds and extra spark, but you could push further to make the voice really swing, and then you’ll have nailed it.
Thanks very much for taking the time to read it. I've been flip-flopping on POV between omniscient and tight third person because the story has a lot of quirky elements to it and I remember reading that omni works better for it. The protag is black because I needed a heroic character and my brother-in-law is both former navy and worked as nurse during COVID so I felt he qualified (my wife was black but she's been gone 8 years now or I'd definitely be getting help from her). The only problem is I'm not black so AAVE is something I'm not great with (wife used to ask me not to try) and will probably need to research more.
You're right about the voice, I think that's the weakest part about it. I think if I go omni I'd better make sure the narrator is a separate character. I've been revising a lot lately but it looks like my work's still cut out for me. Honestly it's never even dawned on me that I should have a noir kind of tone at all but JD's is pretty noir-detective in retrospect.
Thanks again for taking the time to read.
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Jan 22, 2023 23:52
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- Smik
- Mar 18, 2014
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I think not knowing AAVE, it’s probably safest to lean on heavy contractions in speech and dropping some slang here and there without getting into don’t-you-dare territory.
What you’ve been told about omnicient being better for quirky is not really true. The thing with making a limited pov quirky is you transfer those quirks to the pov character, and that can strengthen your main character to an impressive degree. If your black protag is the one making all the sly observations and assuming the thoughts in other people’s heads—even possibly being the narrator reconstructing things he didn’t witness—and noticing his own foibles, then you’ve got yourself an A+ protagonist to carry the story.
Whereas by splitting the narrator’s personality from the protagonist, you could weaken the protagonist to just another player in the play, and strong black protag seems like the better way to go. It would also be (or so it seems from what I’ve read), and easier edit for you to do, because the sardonic observations you’ve already made could easily be ascribed to Carter—they already feel like the kind he’d make.
Well by 'quirky' I mean there's a lot of strange things that happens in the story, although a tight third could help ease the reader into it. Speaking of, in the very opening of the 7th major revision if I were to keep a tight third it would need to be taken from the spirit's point of view instead which I initially balked at but could make for an interesting opener. I might give that a shot and start working on revision 8.
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Jan 23, 2023 00:49
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Jan 22, 2023 08:43
