Debate Liveposting Thread - WILL YOU SHUT UP, MAN?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Debate Liveposting Thread - WILL YOU SHUT UP, MAN?

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Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Loucks posted:

Is this a non sequitur, or does this poster really think Juggalos are a "gang?"

they are a FBI designated gang�

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:40

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 00:41

ElrondHubbard: Sep 14, 2007

ratbert90 posted:

Now is not the time to vote for change! You need to vote for Mondale! We need to beat Reagan!

Now is not the time to vote for change! You need to vote for Clinton! We need to beat Bush Sr!

Now is not the time to vote for change! You need to vote for Obama! We need to beat Bush Jr!

Now is not the time to vote for change! You need to vote for Obama! We need to beat McCain!

Now is not the time to vote for change! You need to vote for Clinton! We need to beat Trump!

Now is not the time to vote for change! You need to vote for Joe! We need to beat Trump!

Exactly. If you want leftists instead, the time for changing it was during the primaries and it would read:
Now is not the time to vote for change! You need to vote for Bernie! We need to beat Trump!
(Because of course Bernie would be accused of being a compromise candidate and a closet centrist, just like he already was in this very thread)

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:40

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

Seven Hundred Bee posted:

Do you know what the Proud Boys are?

Inconsequential boogeymen for fearmongers to use to drum up votes for their garbage hero?

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:40

Mr Ice Cream Glove: Apr 22, 2007

https://twitter.com/maxberger/status/1311163083461623809?s=20

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:40

human garbage bag: Jan 8, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

I feel that one of Trump's main goals in this first debate was to demoralize leftists by making Biden denounce the GND, police defunding, etc. It also felt like he tried to make Biden lash out but I was surprised at how well Biden kept it together. Overall I'd say Biden won just because of how petulant Trump came off, but it seems that Trump is willing to take a loss in this first one in order to win the debates overall.

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:40

Seven Hundred Bee: Nov 1, 2006

Loucks posted:

Is this a non sequitur, or does this poster really think Juggalos are a "gang?"

The juggalos are actually a literal gang now, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juggalo_gangs

quote:

Juggalo gangs are criminal groups using the name and associated imagery from Juggalo culture, dedicated fans of the rap group Insane Clown Posse or any other Psychopathic Records artist.[5][1][2][3][6] As a result, Juggalos have been classified as a criminal street gang by government and law enforcement agencies, including the Federal Bureau of Investigation,[3] the National Gang Intelligence Center,[2] and the states of Arizona, California, Pennsylvania, and Utah.[2][3] Juggalo gang sets have been documented by law enforcement in at least 21 states,[3] including those that do not recognize Juggalos as a gang at the state level.[2]

Juggalo gangs band together under the Juggalo banner in order to engage in patterns of criminal activity. Unlike members of the general Juggalo subculture,[2] these gangs have handbooks detailing gang ranks and responsibilities,[4] and commit crimes for financial gain.[2]

The National Gang Intelligence Center has also predicted that "The formation of rivalries or alliances to gangs outside their group will allow the Juggalos to evolve into a more sophisticated criminal entity through associations with hardened, experienced gang members."

Insane Clown Posse objects to characterizations of its fanbase as a gang, and has challenged the Federal gang designation in court. In December 2017 the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit ruled that ICP failed to demonstrate harm caused by the FBI's 2011 report.

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:40

PerniciousKnid: Sep 13, 2006

illcendiary posted:

Re-elect Trump or we’ll have an even worse fascist in 2024 is a real galaxy-brain take. Feels vaguely like a threat lol

Weird way to describe pattern-recognition.

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:40

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs; Grimey Drawer

OwlFancier posted:

I guess it depends whether you think biden winning will lead to validation of his approach in the democratic party and the production of a similar candidate in 2024 who will lose to the republicans, or whether you think trump will make it literally impossible to have elections in 2024 if he wins.

Which is more probable? I guess we'll see.

I believe another 4 years of an embolden Trump will not allow for the continuation of any real democracy. Look at how many Dem candidates have won the popular vote and still lost, it's only going to get worse.

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:40

MyStereoHasMono: Feb 23, 2006; Ladies and gentlemen we are floating in space

I'm not really a regular here, trying to figure out what the NoJoe things mean based on their posting. Is it some political group for college freshmen?

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:40

Seven Hundred Bee: Nov 1, 2006

Rockit posted:

I get the feeling you reached the opposite side of the "X will get y better /Don't they wouldn't" argument.

You don't have to think that Proud aren't bigoted assholes propped by past republican bigotry to think that Democrats having actual good policy would reduce their power.
If having Trump not having a president plafotrom impacts people why not the actual people in power doing goods things.

No one is claming that Proud Boys are just people who have economic anxieties just that having a good economy for everyone would hurt groups like them from recruiting and forming.

Nix Panicus posted:

Inconsequential boogeymen for fearmongers to use to drum up votes for their garbage hero?

Beside that, though, I don't think the group we need to think about reaching through progressive policies is the farthest right, dangerous fringe of violent white nationalists and instead of, uh, I don't know, the other 99.99% of America. I do not think demographics are destiny, but yes, there is going to be a violent, ultra-racist fringe, and I am not particularly interesting in explaining their behavior or solving the riddle to what motivates their violent hatred.

Seven Hundred Bee fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Sep 30, 2020

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:41

Shammypants: May 25, 2004; Let me tell you about true luxury.

fart simpson posted:

oh is that why i should vote for biden?

Nope, I don't care who you vote for. I'm basically just telling you what is happening right now, with people other than the selfish "you." People are coalescing around Biden and Trump. We're likely to see extremely high numbers of votes overall. Third party voting is lower than 2016. Protest votes are not appreciably different or interesting from 2016. What you do, does, not, matter. No one needs to convince you to do anything, if the polls and existing evidence is true.

In the context of a Biden victory, with little protest voting in general, my question has always been "what's your plan then?" Call people lanyards? Say everyone was tricked and that the media brainwashed 65 million+ people again? Is that it?

I'm actually interested in seeing a broad strategy, kind of like what the libertarians are pulling off, getting more of their ideas around, messaging better, using legal mechanisms better. Doing whatever they need to do. Right now, there is no functional progressive opposition. It was stronger in 2000 and stronger in 2016.

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:41

Loucks: May 21, 2007; It's incwedibwe easy to suck my own dick.

Epic High Five posted:

I voted for the only Jewish candidate in the primary and believe those people you mentioned should be thrown onto a prison island surrounded by battleships to fend for themselves. What exactly is your point here, what is the hinge upon which I, a radically communist, am "owned"

This is a terrible opinion: battleships should not exist.

Raskolnikov38 posted:

they are a FBI designated gang™

So the latter. Amazing.

e: adding this quote because it's really funny.

Seven Hundred Bee posted:

The juggalos are actually a literal gang now, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juggalo_gangs

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:42

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

MyStereoHasMono posted:

I'm not really a regular here, trying to figure out what the NoJoe things mean based on their posting. Is it some political group for college freshmen?

we are communists in our 30s and 40s

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:43

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Popete posted:

I believe another 4 years of an embolden Trump will not allow for the continuation of any real democracy. Look at how many Dem candidates have won the popular vote and still lost, it's only going to get worse.

I feel like you could also read into that "it doesn't require trump to happen and biden almost certainly won't do anything to stop it happening in future"

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:43

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

Popete posted:

I believe another 4 years of an embolden Trump will not allow for the continuation of any real democracy. Look at how many Dem candidates have won the popular vote and still lost, it's only going to get worse.

Everybody knows you need 8 years to destroy democracy. 4 just isn�t enough!

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:43

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs; Grimey Drawer

OwlFancier posted:

I feel like you could also read into that "it doesn't require trump to happen and biden almost certainly won't do anything to stop it happening in future"

I didn't say Biden was going to resolve anything. The options in my mind are:

1. Trump wins and that is it, the end of American Democracy
2. Biden wins and everything is still poo poo but we buy ourselves some time to do something particularly in 2022

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:44

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

does anyone know what the gently caress wallace was talking about when he said the election was going to be independently certified? cause it certainly didn't sound like he was talking about when congress meets to certify the electoral college

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:44

Seven Hundred Bee: Nov 1, 2006

I mean, yes there is literally a Juggalo gang that participates in activities that gangs do. I thought most people knew this? Is this somehow controversial? This is not the same thing as the Proud Boys, which are explicitly a Nazi terrorist organization.

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:44

A Wizard of Goatse: Dec 14, 2014

Space Gopher posted:

The structure of American politics creates two major parties that hold essentially all national political power between them. It's theoretically possible for a party to collapse completely and be replaced (like what happened to the Whigs), but it's extremely difficult and rare. Meanwhile, we've seen a major political party taken over by an internal movement within just the past decade The racist/nativist wing of the Republicans went from subordinate to the business interests, to vice versa, over the course of the Obama administration. That's why Trump is president instead of Jeb!

It's possible to use the same mechanism for positive leftist change in the Democratic party. And, it's much more likely to be effective than voting for a third party that can't hope to hold power at the executive level without winning a majority across the majority of electoral votes.

If you really want to break the cycle of running towards the center, look at the Tea Party, and emulate what they did for better ends.

The Tea Party benefitted from oligarchs funding a massively coordinated effort, and the Republican party structure actually honoring straight-up popular votes in their primaries. It's a major reason why Democrats have doubled and tripled down on byzantine vote-obfuscating mechanisms straight out of the Boss Tweed era.

There will be no "leftist Tea Party" and you cannot simply vote your way out of the elimination of the means by which your vote has any significance.

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:44

PerniciousKnid: Sep 13, 2006

ratbert90 posted:

Everybody knows you need 8 years to destroy democracy. 4 just isn’t enough!

Trump is saving the best for season 2 because he is a true showman.

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:45

Somfin: Oct 25, 2010; In my🦚 experience🛠️ the big things🌑 don't teach you anything🤷‍♀️.; Nap Ghost

MyStereoHasMono posted:

I'm not really a regular here, trying to figure out what the NoJoe things mean based on their posting. Is it some political group for college freshmen?

We're simultaneously the entire reason that Biden is going to lose and inconsequential gatekeeping leftists who don't understand pragmatic incrementalism (according to very consequential non-gatekeeping folks who for some reason need to continually restate how leftist they are).

Expect multiple QCS threads calling for folks with this tag to be permabanned after November 4th

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:45

Epic High Five: Jun 5, 2004

MyStereoHasMono posted:

I'm not really a regular here, trying to figure out what the NoJoe things mean based on their posting. Is it some political group for college freshmen?

This sort of sentiment is extremely widespread and I love it because its infinitely valuable in convincing people that condescending liberals despise them to discourage them from voting for Joe Biden

"Oh what are you, some kind of childish buffoon, or maybe a *snort* retail worker hahaha" please keep it up lmao

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:45

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Popete posted:

I didn't say Biden was going to resolve anything. The options in my mind are:

1. Trump wins and that is it, the end of American Democracy
2. Biden wins and everything is still poo poo but we buy ourselves some time to do something particularly in 2022

I guess the problem I have is with the idea of buying time, because people have bought time in many, many elections to this date and the weird thing is that once the immediate threat is gone a whole lot of people suddenly become very Moderate all of a sudden.

It is dificult to take the idea seriously at this point.

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:46

Rockit: Feb 2, 2017

Seven Hundred Bee posted:

Beside that, though, I don't think the group we need to think about reaching through progressive policies is the farthest right, dangerous fringe of violent white nationalists and instead of, uh, I don't know, the other 99.99% of America. I do not think demographics are destiny, but yes, there is going to be a violent, ultra-racist fringe, and I am not particularly interesting in explaining their behavior or solving the riddle to what motivates their violent hatred.

Ok that was a dick move i'd grant and i shouldn't skipped that part. I'm sorry. That wasn't PK's argument for instance however.

Trump being gone wouldn't convert the already militant people but it would remove a little bit of their power to make new converts and actions. Same thing here.

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:46

Loucks: May 21, 2007; It's incwedibwe easy to suck my own dick.

Somfin posted:

We're simultaneously the entire reason that Biden is going to lose and inconsequential gatekeeping leftists who don't understand pragmatic incrementalism (according to very consequential non-gatekeeping folks who for some reason need to continually restate how leftist they are).

Expect multiple QCS threads calling for folks with this tag to be permabanned after November 4th

I genuinely expect there to be a purge if Biden loses, but I'll have died doing what I love: not voting for Joe Biden.

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:47

Minion of Freya: Jan 2, 2017

fart simpson posted:

we are communists in our 30s and 40s

I have voted for the democratic candidate in every election until this one because the party has not moved left after winning and sprints to the right after losing. Joe Biden has affordable access to our votes.

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:47

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

Popete posted:

I didn't say Biden was going to resolve anything. The options in my mind are:

1. Trump wins and that is it, the end of American Democracy
2. Biden wins and everything is still poo poo but we buy ourselves some time to do something particularly in 2022

buying time to do what? is there a real plan here?

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:47

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs; Grimey Drawer

OwlFancier posted:

I guess the problem I have is with the idea of buying time, because people have bought time in many, many elections to this date and the weird thing is that once the immediate threat is gone a whole lot of people suddenly become very Moderate all of a sudden.

Yeah it sucks I agree. But again I point back to the alternative which is running out of time.

There are no good options this November, but there is one wrong one.

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:47

A Wizard of Goatse: Dec 14, 2014

I gotta say it truly exceeds expectations that when reaching to identify any white people as gangsters, the guy calling everyone else Nazis dug deep and came up with a pan-racial group of rap fans

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:48

Epic High Five: Jun 5, 2004

Seven Hundred Bee posted:

I mean, yes there is literally a Juggalo gang that participates in activities that gangs do. I thought most people knew this? Is this somehow controversial? This is not the same thing as the Proud Boys, which are explicitly a Nazi terrorist organization.

By every single qualification, Pokemon Go discord groups are also legally recognized gangs

It's a meaningless designation. If you are worried about a group being a gang because of their behavior just pretend they have badges so you can be at ease once again

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:48

Bootleg Trunks: Jun 12, 2020

MyStereoHasMono posted:

I'm not really a regular here, trying to figure out what the NoJoe things mean based on their posting. Is it some political group for college freshmen?

People who volunteered for the obama campaign and got left behind when he pivoted to the right immediately after winning.

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:48

Seven Hundred Bee: Nov 1, 2006

A Wizard of Goatse posted:

I gotta say it truly exceeds expectations that when reaching to identify any white people as gangsters, the guy calling everyone else Nazis dug deep and came up with a pan-racial group of rap fans

so we're pretending that white gangs don't exist and the Juggalos aren't a gang (independent of people who are fans of ICP but aren't part of the gang), gotcha.

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:49

eke out: Feb 24, 2013

JT Jag posted:

All this post is making me do is reminding me how horrific Republican governance is and reinforcing my desire for the alternative

Who amongst us can forget how in 2008 we were told we can't have change and must hold our nose and vote for Obama

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:49

Sedisp: Jun 20, 2012

illcendiary posted:

Re-elect Trump or we�ll have an even worse fascist in 2024 is a real galaxy-brain take. Feels vaguely like a threat lol

The vague threat of observable reality

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:49

fool of sound: Oct 10, 2012

Thank you all for posting your little hearts out during that shitshow. We now return to your regularly scheduled threads, try to not be assholes in them.

# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:49

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 00:41

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# ? Sep 30, 2020 05:54

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Debate Liveposting Thread - WILL YOU SHUT UP, MAN?

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