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Nix Panicus posted:Stop catastophizing. America will survive Trump. This election is just another road bump. I, for one, am voting my conscious on this one and not voting for Joe and will encourage others to vote third party I mean, a few hundred thousand DACA recipients might die or have their lives ruined, but what does that matter against the true light of ideological purity?
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Sep 30, 2020 04:38
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| # ¿ May 15, 2024 16:41 |
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Trump issued an executive order to end DACA. The courts ruled that he had the power to do so, but that the specifics of the way he did it were incorrect. With a second term, he will have time to reissue the order to end DACA, in a way that complies with the court-ordered restrictions. This will result in DACA recipients, who are already registered with federal law enforcement, suddenly becoming eligible for immediate deportation. Biden will not issue the same order. This is a significant difference between the two candidates. But hey, you don't have to care, it's not like Trump is going to send ICE after your friends or the people you love.
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Sep 30, 2020 04:47
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OwlFancier posted:Is biden planning to reform immigration so that people are not living with the threat of the next hostile administration doing that? According to his campaign website, yes. But even if he wasn't, it doesn't change the very simple calculus: President Trump has taken concrete steps to end DACA, he has promised to continue, and a Biden administration would not. Biden is far from perfect or even good on immigration, but trying to draw an equivalence between him and Trump is absolute nonsense. Obama and Biden did a poor job at the border. Trump and Pence have been apocalyptically bad on immigration and refugee issues, at the border and within the US. Going back to just "poor" isn't great, but it will mean very real positive changes for hundreds of thousands of people. If you really want to value purity tests above that to the point you throw your lot in with the proud boys and the Klan, have fun heiling your way to pure leftism.
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Sep 30, 2020 04:58
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fart simpson posted:no you see, you have to vote for the vice deporter in chief to help the people being deported This is literally a right wing talking point designed to excuse Trump's despicable immigration record. More people were captured at the border and deported under Obama because more people tried to cross the border, largely because of worse cartel violence and greater economic opportunity in the US. Trump has set more repressive border policies, and encouraged greater violence by law enforcement and white supremacists (but I repeat myself) against migrants and refugees both at the border and within the US. The Trump administration has openly violated US and international law on the treatment of refugees in a way that Obama and Biden never did. But go ahead and repeat that thing you heard on Fox News. They must be on your side, because after all, they say they want to own the libs.
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Sep 30, 2020 05:04
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OwlFancier posted:OK so if everyone votes biden and he wins what then? Yes, it is absolutely a problem. We should have candidates who will do better than "poorly" on immigration. That's why I protested at the local immigration prison under Obama, didn't vote for Biden in the primary, and will continue to support candidates who will do better than Biden. It also doesn't change the fact that, if Trump wins, hundreds of thousands of people who have known nothing but the US and who have built stable lives here will be turned into unpersons and deported, and that if Biden wins, those people will be allowed to stay, study, and work in the United States. You're willing to sacrifice those people for the sake of your purity. Good for you, you're very pure, much purer than I am. I happen to know and care about some of them, so I'm going to exert whatever meager scrap of power I've got to bend the outcome to the one where they don't get deported, even if it means I'm not as good a leftist as you are.
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Sep 30, 2020 05:15
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| # ¿ May 15, 2024 16:41 |
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OwlFancier posted:I'm asking because, like, do you not see a conflict between voting for crappy candidates and voting for not crappy ones? Like yeah you can vote left in the primary but if you vote right at the general anyway doesn't that send a much clearer message that nobody needs to tack left? The structure of American politics creates two major parties that hold essentially all national political power between them. It's theoretically possible for a party to collapse completely and be replaced (like what happened to the Whigs), but it's extremely difficult and rare. Meanwhile, we've seen a major political party taken over by an internal movement within just the past decade The racist/nativist wing of the Republicans went from subordinate to the business interests, to vice versa, over the course of the Obama administration. That's why Trump is president instead of Jeb! It's possible to use the same mechanism for positive leftist change in the Democratic party. And, it's much more likely to be effective than voting for a third party that can't hope to hold power at the executive level without winning a majority across the majority of electoral votes. If you really want to break the cycle of running towards the center, look at the Tea Party, and emulate what they did for better ends.
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Sep 30, 2020 05:32
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