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So speech synthesis? Like when my phone is telling me to turn left at Hotham Road and then stay in the right lane for 300 metres?
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Mar 3, 2024 13:51
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AI?? In my video game????
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Mar 3, 2024 15:22
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Genuine question, but why such a hard line on AI voice? Seems like a really weird line to draw in the sand.
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Mar 3, 2024 15:50
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Bentai posted:If they can't afford to pay voice actors, then I can't afford to buy their game. Hilarious.
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Mar 3, 2024 16:18
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How bad is it? Are we talking commodore SID chip synthesis or something?
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Mar 3, 2024 17:18
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Squiggle posted:Hilarious. How so?
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Mar 3, 2024 18:17
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Shine posted:I remember the demo had an annoying autotrim that would immediately disengage (and reset all trims) if I made a gentle movement on my stick or thumbstick, so it was basically useless. I'm being lazy tonight and using the mouse, but I'll try to enjoy my stupid expensive toy tomorrow. They put out a hotfix that supposedly fixes the controller issues. I'll check that out later today.
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Mar 3, 2024 18:28
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Chuck_D posted:Genuine question, but why such a hard line on AI voice? Seems like a really weird line to draw in the sand. It's replacing bread and butter roles for entry level voice actors, and there's no reason to do it apart from saving a few bucks.
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Mar 3, 2024 19:02
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The voices being AI makes it even sillier. They sound like they're being "recorded" in amateur home offices by people with gaming headsets, and there are random lines here and there that sound like re-records in a different session and location. I'd have figured that AI dialogue for prewritten lines would sound environmentally consistent, even if the tone, enunciation, etc. are fucky.  slidebite posted:How bad is it? Are we talking commodore SID chip synthesis or something? They sound like humans, but not like people. Shine fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Mar 4, 2024 |
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Mar 3, 2024 20:02
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Aren't steam games supposed to disclose AI usage now? I don't see anything about it on the store page. Pretty lovely if you ask me!
BMan fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Mar 3, 2024 |
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Mar 3, 2024 20:26
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What if it is real people but they are so bad at speaking that people think it's AI.
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Mar 3, 2024 20:41
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Cojawfee posted:What if it is real people but they are so bad at speaking that people think it's AI. I feel like I've definitely heard eurojank games a long time ago with voice acting that sounded like terrible AI voice.
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Mar 4, 2024 02:48
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Kashwashwa posted:I feel like I've definitely heard eurojank games a long time ago with voice acting that sounded like terrible AI voice. Space Rangers 2  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlixbA7_CH4
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Mar 4, 2024 04:31
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Cojawfee posted:What if it is real people but they are so bad at speaking that people think it's AI. The devs themselves confirmed it was AI. Getting voicework done for normal scripted lines on the cheap - even free - is really easy. It can be a little time consuming, but they said it themselves that is was rough getting the AI to even sound this good, that is to say really bad. Chuck_D posted:Genuine question, but why such a hard line on AI voice? Seems like a really weird line to draw in the sand. AI generation for any creative work that replaces real people is considered to be awful for what I hope to be obvious reasons, even without accounting for the non-consensual use of people's data in order to generate the majority of AI services. There are very limited cases where it can be excused, but even then, the dataset used remains a concern. Even in the case of something like BeyondATC, I'm going to assume they use three to power their whole thing, one that converts speech to text, a chat bot that takes the converted text and responds to it while following a base prompt, and a voice synthesiser to readback the output. Throughout the years there have been things that do all of these tasks that aren't AI and they have been uncontroversial. The issue entirely rests on that methodology of machine learning generally needing extremely large databases to sample and "learn" from, making it extremely unlikely the data is ethically sourced. What are the chances that all three of those AI services BeyondATC use will all have clean datasets?
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Mar 4, 2024 05:27
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doesn't msfs 2020 use ai generated voices
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Mar 4, 2024 05:30
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Even in the case of something like BeyondATC, I'm going to assume they use three to power their whole thing, one that converts speech to text, a chat bot that takes the converted text and responds to it while following a base prompt, and a voice synthesiser to readback the output. Throughout the years there have been things that do all of these tasks that aren't AI and they have been uncontroversial. Those things from 'throughout the years' are all things that have been referred to as AI, often. AI is a very broad, undefined term. The current buzz tends to use it to refer to generative deep learning systems, but that's just because that's what the current buzz is. I'm not just being 'ooo technically', it's quite common for press releases to mention AI when they aren't using deep generative and there's been some campaigns against games that start and then abort when it turns out they were just using something like procedural generation. (That happened with Skylines 2 and their dynamic people models.) The words AI get you investment. And there's been some degree of trained machine learning involved in speech synthesis for decades. Deep learning specifically, which means you're using numerous stacked layers of artificial neural nets, has only been a major thing in the field since around 2016, but even so I expect you see it everywhere without even knowing for a lot of speech interaction. Siri, for example, has been partially deep trained since iOS 10 in 2016. It's likely most speech generation has used some level of deep neural trained models for half a decade or so, but even before that it was other AI machine learning technologies. I'm not entirely sure about the wide harvesting issues for speech synthesis: it's not really being mock-creative in the way things like generative art are, and responds better to more limited supervised and annotated dataset inputs. Probably trained on a wide range of supervised voice input for a base model that then narrows down to training on individual persons for final output models. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 12:07 on Mar 4, 2024 |
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Mar 4, 2024 06:14
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I'd be interested to see if anyone comes up with a system that makes an attempt at pronouncing fix names instead of spelling them out phonetically, since there's some pretty obvious ones (CHINS, RADDY, HUMPP, etc...), and then some that are deliberately random syllables (IGVEP, XUGAV, RDZON), which I can see being a struggle for machine learning software.
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Mar 4, 2024 07:06
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For a given set of things like that you just have the system transparently substitute a word written as it's meant to be pronounced in the text before feeding it to the speech synth. You'd have to keep a dictionary of pronunciations but that's basically what you have to learn in real life for things like that. Some synth systems can take precise IPA definitions for words.
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Mar 4, 2024 |
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Mar 4, 2024 09:01
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Outside of the training issues (extremely large caveat I know) stuff like generated ATC is 100% the correct use case for something like this, where the sheer volume of calls required is never going to be achievable by a human actor. It would be cool if we could trust that AI solutions were being used to extend what's possible instead of undercut workers at the first opportunity, but hey 
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Mar 4, 2024 09:11
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Vando posted:Outside of the training issues (extremely large caveat I know) stuff like generated ATC is 100% the correct use case for something like this, where the sheer volume of calls required is never going to be achievable by a human actor. It would be cool if we could trust that AI solutions were being used to extend what's possible instead of undercut workers at the first opportunity, but hey This is also where I landed. AI used in a complex system that actually furthers said system's abilities? Fantastic. AI used so they don't need to pay a voice actor? Get in the boo box. Funny that it both sucks and sounds like it was more difficult than just hiring an actor.
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Mar 4, 2024 17:21
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Looks like beyond atc has updated it's pricingquote:New Pricing Model. Same incredible ATC.
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Mar 6, 2024 15:07
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tater_salad posted:Looks like beyond atc has updated it's pricing From their discord: quote:@everyone Greetings! Ever since the launch of our pricing model, we have been taking on your feedback and listening to all the comments. Our goal has always been to give you a product that's simple and easy to use, and that ideology should also extend to our pricing. Because of this we went back to the drawing board to start again. Absolute lol. That said, I’m gonna wait for reviews, but at this price I’m probably in if it does what they say it’ll do.
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Mar 6, 2024 15:12
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azflyboy posted:I'd be interested to see if anyone comes up with a system that makes an attempt at pronouncing fix names instead of spelling them out phonetically, since there's some pretty obvious ones (CHINS, RADDY, HUMPP, etc...), and then some that are deliberately random syllables (IGVEP, XUGAV, RDZON), which I can see being a struggle for machine learning software. Fly to Hay River (CYHY), report BALLS inbound.
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Mar 6, 2024 20:24
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I'm glad they tweaked the offering at least.
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Mar 6, 2024 20:53
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I don't mind paying less, but I felt a one time $60 for the work done was fair.
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Mar 6, 2024 21:41
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I agree, I didn't think it was too nuts.
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Mar 6, 2024 22:02
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Edit; The most wrong thread.
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Mar 6, 2024 22:35
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Was there previously a $60 one-time unlimited version? I was of the understanding that it still would incur fees after you ran out of credits or whatever.
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Mar 6, 2024 23:27
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It was 60$ for the free to use stuff and then it cost more to get their premium voices. But now it's 30 dollars for the free to use thing.
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Mar 6, 2024 23:42
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The original price was $60 for the software and then there was 5 different tiers of voice pricing. Offline Basic no traffic Basic with traffic Premium no traffic Premium with traffic Offline had no additional charges but the basic and premium was an additional charge per unit of "transmission time". There was never a definitive explanation* for what exactly the transmission time was but they offered guidance that a single flight could use between 8000 and 600,000 units depending on their choice of voices. Top-up packs were priced at $5 for 500,000 units to $20 for 3.3 million. *They said it was based on how much you interact with the ATC and how much the ATC and traffic speaks back but never said if it was seconds or something else. Conviently this also meant there was no way to audit what you were being charged.
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Mar 7, 2024 00:09
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I don’t wholly understand the technology but if it really delivers decent traffic and lively world with more or less working ATC I’d rather just pay them a flat subscription a month for full access than some weird phone-card-esque pricing model even if this works out to slightly more expensive for me as a user. It’s immediately going to detract from the game if I suddenly hit a weird ATC thing akin to the vanilla poo poo where I get switched back and forth and suddenly spend $5 a flight because my flight path shifted between two different centers one too many times, or some bullshit. BeyondATC: your pitch is that you give an immersive, living, aviation environment in singleplayer without Vatsim. Don’t gently caress it up by making me think about my credit card whenever I hit the mic. Again maybe I don’t fully understand their thing but at first glance it feels like they drastically overthought the offering with their pricing scheme. You’re already selling to a usually wealthy, captive audience. Don’t get cute! Anime Store Adventure fucked around with this message at 09:01 on Mar 7, 2024 |
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Mar 7, 2024 08:53
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flying low altitude + transponder off so i can avoid radar and keep my ATC bill low
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Mar 7, 2024 15:56
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the milk machine posted:flying low altitude + transponder off so i can avoid radar and keep my ATC bill low  The Mathias Rust-plan
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Mar 7, 2024 16:58
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Anime Store Adventure posted:I don’t wholly understand the technology but if it really delivers decent traffic and lively world with more or less working ATC I’d rather just pay them a flat subscription a month for full access than some weird phone-card-esque pricing model even if this works out to slightly more expensive for me as a user. It’s immediately going to detract from the game if I suddenly hit a weird ATC thing akin to the vanilla poo poo where I get switched back and forth and suddenly spend $5 a flight because my flight path shifted between two different centers one too many times, or some bullshit. Just use the free-tier voices, they sound fine to me. Then there's no concern about how many ATCBux you have left.
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Mar 7, 2024 18:50
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Yeah, I don't care that much about the voices sounding totally human. The real killer feature is ATC that makes the right calls at the right times and responds correctly to what you say. Give me that and I'd be fine if the sound came from a fuckin MacinTalk TTS.
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Mar 7, 2024 21:54
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Please drink a confirmation can of Mountain Dew Baja Blast to accept your landing clearance.
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Mar 7, 2024 21:57
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Cojawfee posted:Please drink a confirmation can of Mountain Dew Baja Blast to accept your landing clearance. Cleared via CRVZA CRSTL
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Mar 7, 2024 22:08
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Guy Axlerod posted:Cleared via CRVZA CRSTL lmao
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Mar 7, 2024 22:15
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Now I want an edit of Airplane that adds Cerveza Cristal.
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Mar 7, 2024 22:16
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Any more trip reports from Brew Barons? Thinking of picking it up this weekend. Worth getting now? Not worth it til more features are built out? How's the flying?
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Mar 7, 2024 22:19
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