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Some Goon posted:Zero mission is as guilty of linearity as this one. And linearity might not be the exact right word, but the GBA metroids tell you explicitly where to go, whereas all the previous games, even if there is only one place you can go without sequence breaking, leave it up to you to find. The exploration aspect that defines original and super, (and 2 but iirc that one's a pretty straight path) is gone. Prime 1 and 2 have a hint system like this as well, though it's present at a system level and you can toggle it on and off whenever (never played 3 so I don't know if it's there too). Agreed that "linearity" might not be the right word the more I think about it, maybe guidance is a better term? E: Since a few people have mentioned it, should I give Samus Returns another shot? I got maybe halfway through it before falling off of my 3DS in general, though with that game I was firmly at "it's alright" rather than "hell yeah this rules". C-Euro fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Oct 5, 2020 |
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Oct 5, 2020 02:46
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Shitenshi posted:I know about the one gimmick route which the game does not expect you to do and even congratulates you on finding it with some very meta-commentary, but first I've heard about that. Also, this game is great, but sadly for all us fools outside of Japan, hard mode was not included. I guess there's really no reason I can't spell it out. When you get towards the end of the game, if you access any of the Nav/Data rooms that come up at the beginning of the sectors, it will lock you out of all the remaining sectors and funnel you into the endgame sequence. There is no indication or reason for this.
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Oct 5, 2020 03:04
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C-Euro posted:E: Since a few people have mentioned it, should I give Samus Returns another shot? I got maybe halfway through it before falling off of my 3DS in general, though with that game I was firmly at "it's alright" rather than "hell yeah this rules". Gameplaywise, Samus Returns is the best of the Metroid games outside of the Prime series. I think you should go back to it.
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Oct 5, 2020 04:20
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this tour through the metroidvania genre had better be building up to a Hollow Knight playthrough 
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Oct 5, 2020 22:12
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Oct 5, 2020 23:05
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Who among us hasn't looked at Samus Motherfucking Aran and said "I wanna be that"?
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Oct 5, 2020 23:14
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C-Euro posted:Prime 1 and 2 have a hint system like this as well, though it's present at a system level and you can toggle it on and off whenever (never played 3 so I don't know if it's there too). Agreed that "linearity" might not be the right word the more I think about it, maybe guidance is a better term? Samus Returns is easily the best metroid game we've had in years. Years! it's the only metroid game we've had in years
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Oct 5, 2020 23:52
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If nothing else, having "endgame you" as an enemy is nicely original.
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Oct 6, 2020 00:34
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Gnoman posted:If nothing else, having "endgame you" as an enemy is nicely original. It's the sort of thing that only works if you've spent multiple games establishing your protagonist to be incredibly dangerous. Even if we ignore the Prime series, at this point Samus has --- entirely by herself -- killed Ridley and Mother Brain twice each, hunted the Metroids to extinction, and blown up a planet.
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Oct 6, 2020 01:25
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Radio Free Kobold posted:Samus Returns is easily the best metroid game we've had in years. Years! Ah, but is it the most innovative metroid game you've played in years?
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Oct 6, 2020 01:25
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this first dive into Sector 2 TRO is one of my favorite segments of the game. getting lost in the jungle for the first time was quite fun, and as you've noticed all the enemies around here hit like a truck.
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Oct 6, 2020 01:56
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Alright, so here, the thematic core of Metroid Fusion comes together, and it's that Samus, and Fusion as a game, faces the very specter of Super Metroid itself, and has to deal with her very identity stripped away from her and slowly getting it back. The SA-X represents the literal sense of being the specter of her peak and hunts her mercilessly as she did the Metroids in 2/SR, and as a kid was a terrifying as hell villain. While you can cheese it if you know what you're doing, it can and will kill Samus easily given the chance, and it does so very robotically as you'd expect it to. More to come as it becomes relevant, but suffice to say the adventure starts really clicking for me at this point.
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Oct 6, 2020 02:05
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bladeworksmaster posted:Alright, so here, the thematic core of Metroid Fusion comes together, and it's that Samus, and Fusion as a game, faces the very specter of Super Metroid itself, and has to deal with her very identity stripped away from her and slowly getting it back. They do a great job of making SA-X scary. It's not some "super strong" bad guy who does 5 damage when they show up in the early game. It's the opposite of the classic RPG trope where you need to beat someone conventionally and then they wipe you out in a scripted attack. Bruceski fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Oct 6, 2020 |
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Oct 6, 2020 02:07
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The way SA-X just explodes the doors is a nice touch.
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Oct 6, 2020 02:38
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the SA-X absolutely will dunk all over you. like, 2 or 3-hit kill, it tries to do the whole freeze-and-shatter trick with the ice beam and missiles. it's an unstoppable monster and your chance(?) encounters with it are some of the tensest moments in the whole metroid series. even when you fight it at the end of the game it uses a lot of tricks in samus' arsenal (screw attacking at you, i think it even drops power bombs) and you can't actually hurt it with missiles and normal beam attacks.
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Oct 6, 2020 02:40
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Alien Arcana posted:It's the sort of thing that only works if you've spent multiple games establishing your protagonist to be incredibly dangerous. I should probably replay Samus Returns, did we skip Ridley in that one? To be fair, it was the second game, they probably hadn't settled on R as this recurring nemesis that won't stay dead, stop cloning him you fucker space pirates. How many Ridley kills does Samus have by now? Including Prime games and (ugh) Other M.
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Oct 6, 2020 07:20
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Omobono posted:I should probably replay Samus Returns, did we skip Ridley in that one? To be fair, it was the second game, they probably hadn't settled on R as this recurring nemesis that won't stay dead, stop cloning him you fucker space pirates. Including Prime and Other M, I think that makes 5 or 6, depending on how you count Samus Returns.
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Oct 6, 2020 07:44
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Screw it, I want a gag where Samus shows off her trophies Predator-style and a single wall is just Ridley skulls. With a "missions since the space pirates last cloned Ridley" counter.
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Oct 6, 2020 08:32
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Re: the "Lady" thing, I think "Any objections, Lady?" would sound totally natural if they made it a small L instead of a capital L... it would just make Adam sound like he has a casual New York accent which is probably not what they're going for.  ("Hey, lady! I'm walkin' here!")
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Oct 6, 2020 08:49
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Omobono posted:I should probably replay Samus Returns, did we skip Ridley in that one? To be fair, it was the second game, they probably hadn't settled on R as this recurring nemesis that won't stay dead, stop cloning him you fucker space pirates. ridley was the final boss in Returns and he was pretty tough
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Oct 6, 2020 12:11
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Word of advice: Try to get diagonal aiming into your muscle memory, it really helps a lot esp later in the game.
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Oct 6, 2020 13:47
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Bifauxnen posted:Re: the "Lady" thing, I think "Any objections, Lady?" would sound totally natural if they made it a small L instead of a capital L... it would just make Adam sound like he has a casual New York accent which is probably not what they're going for. Your comment made me think about other "Lady!" I've heard, and now I'm imagining Adam as Mr. Director (Jerry Lewis parody) from The Animanics.
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Oct 6, 2020 13:51
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That part where you wall-jumped up to the hidden room with the missile upgrade is where you're "supposed" to discover those pillars that come out of the ground. The one floor tile sticking out of the ground has a pillar in it and I guess the game assumes that you were going to try and bomb it? I was screaming at my computer during that part of the video lol
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Oct 6, 2020 19:43
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Iirc (admittedly, it's been a while) Fusion is even more of a 'bomb everything' game than Super. The map icons make it easy to see if there's a hidden item or where a hidden room might be, but the game is also just so densely packed.
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Oct 6, 2020 19:53
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C-Euro posted:That part where you wall-jumped up to the hidden room with the missile upgrade is where you're "supposed" to discover those pillars that come out of the ground. The one floor tile sticking out of the ground has a pillar in it and I guess the game assumes that you were going to try and bomb it? I was screaming at my computer during that part of the video lol I thought the floor next to the tile had the pillar, for that expansion?
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Oct 6, 2020 20:50
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Quackles posted:I thought the floor next to the tile had the pillar, for that expansion? For that first one the pillar comes directly out of the block, in the room where you can see the missile upgrade but (currently) can't jump to it the pillar is a couple tiles to the left of that single raised block 
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Oct 6, 2020 21:04
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Those random-rear end floor pillars are dumb, imho. I never think of bombing unmarked floor as a solution, and I did in fact get quite stuck there my first time playing. It's just such a non-puzzle to me, I tried a lot of other stuff but "just bomb" never occurred to me.
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Oct 6, 2020 22:23
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Simply Simon posted:Those random-rear end floor pillars are dumb, imho. I never think of bombing unmarked floor as a solution, and I did in fact get quite stuck there my first time playing. It's just such a non-puzzle to me, I tried a lot of other stuff but "just bomb" never occurred to me. Since bombs show what types of blocks tiles actually are "bomb everything" I usually my go-to solution if I have no idea what to do.
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Oct 7, 2020 07:10
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It was my first Metroid, I didn't know bombs did that!
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Oct 7, 2020 08:08
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Simply Simon posted:It was my first Metroid, I didn't know bombs did that! I don't think they always do in Super? Because Super had the X-Ray Visor. But here there's no such thing.
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Oct 7, 2020 08:46
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Quackles posted:I don't think they always do in Super? Because Super had the X-Ray Visor. It's possible that collapsing blocks don't appear when you bomb them, but I know all other types do. Collapsing blocks, however, are still obvious when you place a bomb on top of them, so I think it's still a sound plan. The same is true for the parts where it looks like a wall but there's nothing there. They share a disdain for holding weight.
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Oct 7, 2020 10:51
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I've been replaying this one again and I think its: _bombs and power bombs (spoiler: power bombs will be back) reveal every block type in their blast radius. _the beam goes through fake walls so if you pay attention to how the impact with a wall should look like you can notice those that way.
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Oct 7, 2020 11:12
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It’s poo poo like this that makes me appreciate the Scan upgrades from Prime and Samus Returns, frankly. A puzzle can still be one from execution rather than bombing every square inch of floor trying to figure poo poo out, and it’s one of the criticisms I concede on Fusion. Mercifully there’s not *that* many of these pillar puzzles around so it’s not a huge complaint.
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Oct 7, 2020 14:19
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Omobono posted:I've been replaying this one again and I think its: Yeah the Power Bombs in this game rule for item collection, and you can carry a lot of them. The endgame item cleanup in this game is just walking into every room, dropping a Power Bomb in the middle, and seeing what turns up.
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Oct 7, 2020 14:26
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Quackles posted:I don't think they always do in Super? Because Super had the X-Ray Visor. Iirc they'll show you if it's a missile or speed booster or whatever block, those just don't come up a whole lot on the whole.
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Oct 7, 2020 17:05
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SirSamVimes posted:this tour through the metroidvania genre had better be building up to a Hollow Knight playthrough There is currently a lot of debate about this. Mainly in Tea's head. On one hand he thinks it would easily be the best capstone to our tour of Metroidvanias, but after hearing me talk about games (and from knowing me for more than 20 year) he's absolutely convinced I won't like it.
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Oct 7, 2020 19:07
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As much as I love Hollow Knight, unless it's your kind of game, it's very much not your kind of game and I'd hate to see someone who isn't enjoying it try and suffer through it. Also, what all Metroidvanias have you been through so far? I'm pretty sure I watched them all but my memory kinda sucks.
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Oct 7, 2020 20:52
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 We've played Symphony of the Night and Super Metroid so far. Natural 20 fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Oct 7, 2020 |
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Oct 7, 2020 23:05
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Coukd you have gottem that boss with bombs? That's certainly whatnit seemed to be telegraphing to me.
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Oct 7, 2020 23:44
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Oh good lordy, the SA-X heartbeat theme combined with its clanking footsteps never ceases to amaze me in its simplicity. Also, the caterpillars slowly maturing up in their shells is wonderful in setting a tone of dread in the player, like what are these things gonna turn into when I come back?! 
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Oct 8, 2020 00:10
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