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JJK is getting one of my 5 slots for AOTY. It good.
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Dec 24, 2023 04:42
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| # ? May 12, 2024 17:44 |
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King of Solomon posted:I've seen enough shonen to have an educated take and no, I don't think I'm wrong about this. I'm sorry, but when you have poo poo like this Fabricated posted:Erza gets to be a badass who wins like, a million fights over the series and is really cool. The exchange for this is her being naked at the end of almost every fight and eventually spending an entire volume chained to a wall naked being essentially raped by a tentacle monster and that type of poo poo is common in most shonen if you've watched any, I don't know how you can legitimately stand by stating you think JJK is one of the worst in how it handles women. It doesn't even crack the top 20.
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Dec 24, 2023 04:44
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trucutru posted:
Oh I 100% forgot Hanami, you're absolutely right there. Literally just judged based on the bod which is, like, not exactly great on my part given my argument lmao
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Dec 24, 2023 04:45
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Asuron posted:I'm sorry, but when you have poo poo like this Well, JJK just blew open its female lead's skull, to start with.
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Dec 24, 2023 04:49
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Yeah other than that moment the show has indeed been perfectly wholesome and cute. Especially Yuji doesn’t get the poo poo beaten out of him every other episode.
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Dec 24, 2023 04:54
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pork never goes bad posted:A lot of words about the female characters in season 1. It struck me so hard when Nobara made her rant in the forest fight. Nobara and Maki are both angry, non-sexualized badasses who get to fight up close and personal and channel their rage at the system. They had all the ugly emotions you don't usually get to see in female characters, and there were two of them... on the good side. It was super refreshing and felt extremely real.
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Dec 24, 2023 05:03
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King of Solomon posted:Well, JJK just blew open its female lead's skull, to start with. Are you really saying that having a lead character getting taken out for narrative and emotional beats ( however good or bad you view that decision ), is worse than female ( usually underage) characters being sexually assaulted constantly and played off a gag joke? I just want to understand the argument here, because that's crazy to me if that's what you're saying.
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Dec 24, 2023 05:30
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Asuron posted:Are you really saying that having a lead character getting taken out for narrative and emotional beats ( however good or bad you view that decision ), is worse than female ( usually underage) characters being sexually assaulted constantly and played off a gag joke? Having female characters accomplish nothing then get murdered is pretty fuckin bad.
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Dec 24, 2023 05:32
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Am I missing something? Didn’t that person that came with Todo heal Nobara a little and say she may not be dead? Why is everyone assuming she’s killed off?
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Dec 24, 2023 05:49
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:Am I missing something? Didn’t that person that came with Todo heal Nobara a little and say she may not be dead? Why is everyone assuming she’s killed off? 'Cuz she got touched in the head by the if I touch you you die man.
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Dec 24, 2023 05:51
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King of Solomon posted:Having female characters accomplish nothing then get murdered is pretty fuckin bad. she didn't accomplish nothing. mahito was beatable because she chunked the absolute poo poo out of him with her technique, which is more than most anyone else in shibuya accomplished against jogo's crew.
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Dec 24, 2023 05:55
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trucutru posted:'Cuz she got touched in the head by the if I touch you you die man. Im ok with her dying, if she is dead, but I think my problem with her death is how she died. I think if she got tagged while actually fighting with Yuji, or through some clever trick from Mahito it would’ve felt better
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Dec 24, 2023 05:56
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:Am I missing something? Didn’t that person that came with Todo heal Nobara a little and say she may not be dead? Why is everyone assuming she’s killed off? The healer himself gave REALLY lovely odds. Not 0? Shiiiiit, just say she's dead.
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Dec 24, 2023 05:56
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:Im ok with her dying, if she is dead, but I think my problem with her death is how she died. I think if she got tagged while actually fighting with Yuji, or through some clever trick from Mahito it would’ve felt better This is pretty much what everybody is saying. Girl was just "whoops, I got distracted by the clone and let the bad touch man tag me, like a moron... is that the script on the floor? does it say that I have to die right now? so that Yuji can despair a bit until best bro makes his appearance to save the day? fuccck." trucutru fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Dec 24, 2023 |
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Dec 24, 2023 06:01
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Pan Dulce posted:The healer himself gave REALLY lovely odds. Not 0? Shiiiiit, just say she's dead. Suuure, but usually in anime if a character is not 100% confirmed dead there’s a good chance they’ll come back, and that’s even without someone flat out saying there’s a chance
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Dec 24, 2023 06:07
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:Suuure, but usually in anime if a character is not 100% confirmed dead there’s a good chance they’ll come back, and that’s even without someone flat out saying there’s a chance counterpoint: she got a flashback scene. she dead. them the rules. they can eventually bring her back from the dead (as shown by Megumi's very dead dad running around and kicking very alive rear end) but that's something different.
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Dec 24, 2023 06:16
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:Am I missing something? Didn’t that person that came with Todo heal Nobara a little and say she may not be dead? Why is everyone assuming she’s killed off? Because they read the manga. We established this lovely spoiler a few pages back.
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Dec 24, 2023 06:37
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dipwood posted:Because they read the manga. We established this lovely spoiler a few pages back. The manga hasn’t confirmed anything yet though.
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Dec 24, 2023 06:39
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:I think if she got tagged while actually fighting with Yuji, or through some clever trick from Mahito it would’ve felt better I mean, it was a clever trick. He forced her to pursue him down and around a corner where he could quickly switch his main body with his double while also positioning his body to hide what he had done as she rounded said corner so as to futz with her reaction times. The problem is the scene got adapted extremely poorly, and made it seem like she had ages to think about it and react vs a fraction of a second while also not really making it clear what Mahito was doing with his positioning. From Nobara rounding the corner to the smack was 4 panels over two pages (not counting some narration-only panels), and one of those four was just Yuji shouting. It also cut out that even with Mahito's tricks she actually did attempt to block/deflect and was just slightly too slow against what's supposed to be the faster 'main' body. The other side of that token, of course, being that blocking would only have been truly effective against the double, but that's also the point of the trick. e: It's honestly somewhat wild. The anime staff clearly love Nobara but then they turned around and did her really dirty with that scene. Oh Snapple! fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Dec 24, 2023 |
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Dec 24, 2023 06:41
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she's alive and gonna get revenge on yuji for playing dead in s1, its called foreshadowing
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Dec 24, 2023 07:03
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Pan Dulce posted:The healer himself gave REALLY lovely odds. this is a 100% guarantee that the character will survive, lol
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Dec 24, 2023 07:16
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dipwood posted:Because they read the manga. We established this lovely spoiler a few pages back. Nah, I read online only half of the next arc in the manga (it's unbelievably lovely so I stopped reading) and no nobara to be found trucutru fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Dec 24, 2023 |
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Dec 24, 2023 08:52
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:she's alive and gonna get revenge on yuji for playing dead in s1, its called foreshadowing I would scream so loud I was hoarse if that's what it did Please grant me this blessing, it's too good
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Dec 24, 2023 08:58
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AlternateNu posted:JJK is getting one of my 5 slots for AOTY. Hell, same.
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Dec 24, 2023 09:07
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You know, from a writing standpoint where you want to "break down" the MC against a horrible villain, I feel it makes perfect sense to kill a friend (Junpei), a mentor (Nanami) and one of their core team (Nobara). All by the same guy. Would it have been better if Nobara had been a man from the start? Or if MeiMei and Nanami swapped characters? I feel like that'd make people as upset.
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Dec 24, 2023 12:17
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UnderFreddy posted:You know, from a writing standpoint where you want to "break down" the MC against a horrible villain, I feel it makes perfect sense to kill a friend (Junpei), a mentor (Nanami) and one of their core team (Nobara). All by the same guy. Except that's a card that you can only play once. Once the "core team" is vulnerable, you've got a lot more cynical caution from viewers, so the villain who does the takedown gets less hype every time you try it later. And when Mahito's gone at the end of the arc, that's firing off a pretty big gun on a relatively small conflict.
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Dec 24, 2023 12:40
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Shinjobi posted:I would scream so loud I was hoarse if that's what it did Coming back in a big and awesome way would also be something most shonen battle can't swing with their female characters either, and it would be cool.
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Dec 24, 2023 15:00
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chiasaur11 posted:Except that's a card that you can only play once. Once the "core team" is vulnerable, you've got a lot more cynical caution from viewers, so the villain who does the takedown gets less hype every time you try it later. "Cynical caution from the viewer" does not appear to remotely be what happened after junpei died
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Dec 24, 2023 16:00
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ninjewtsu posted:"Cynical caution from the viewer" does not appear to remotely be what happened after junpei died I highlighted the section I did for a reason. Friends of the leads are always at risk, so whatever fear for them they inspire can be repeated. But the invulnerability of the "leads" is something that only breaks once. Killing one of the main characters (or "killing" for long enough to make the viewer believe it) puts everybody in play, which means one of the main heroes dying isn't as shocking any more. Thus the one time play thing.
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Dec 25, 2023 00:38
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJGjQ9hoAiQ
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Dec 27, 2023 05:19
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Junpei also died like 4 episodes after he was introduced.
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Dec 27, 2023 06:09
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I will say while the fights have good animation this season, they have had very little emotional impact because it keeps dragging on and on and on so stuff doesn't really feel like it matters, and often I don't really care about the characters involved (epitome of that being shadow guy summoning some big dumb monster so sukuna can waste a bunch of time stylishly styling on it, but mechamaru's pointless side mecha thing was a lot like that too). Tunicate fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Dec 27, 2023 |
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Dec 27, 2023 06:42
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i suspect megumi releasing the dumb monster as a suicidal act that didn't work will be an important character beat for him later. though i think its true purpose was to establish that gojo can't beat sukuna, given the shadow monster was introduced as having killed a previous holder of gojo's OP horseshit. personally i think mechamaru's character has been a really cool aspect of the writing this season. there was some very complicated emotions around your dead friend helping you from beyond the grave after betraying you to relieve his crippling physical disability, with the culmination being mechamaru professing his love for another side character before fading away entirely - while also simultaneously revealing to his closest friends that he valued their lives but not their abilities. just a character built out of conflicting emotions and motivations and the whole shibuya arc is essentially exploring the consequences of his actions and judgements, especially given iirc his leaking of information is why the shibuya incident happens in the first place. i thought that was all really neat given how little screentime it actually took up. him getting one cool fight before he went out was nice, imo pretty good example of why i strongly prefer s2's writing to s1's i suppose. there's like, actual drama between characters, and protagonist characters are allowed to fail and have meaningful stakes followed through on for it. it's not often that you get to see a shounen anime where the threat of failure can actually be substantiated like it is here, i think that's what people mean when they call it """ballsy""". arc's willing to make story decisions that aren't cozy or comfortable, and force characters into extreme circumstances that are actually tense because things totally can and will go wrong if they mess up. mechamaru's complex (and sympathetic) personal motivations resulting in him dying despite pulling out several cool shounen hero action tricks at the end is a decent lead in to that i think. ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Dec 27, 2023 |
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Dec 27, 2023 21:24
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ninjewtsu posted:i suspect megumi releasing the dumb monster as a suicidal act that didn't work will be an important character beat for him later. though i think its true purpose was to establish that gojo can't beat sukuna, given the shadow monster was introduced as having killed a previous holder of gojo's OP horseshit. This is a very good post
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Dec 27, 2023 21:44
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wasn't the big dumb monster fight also the entire reason that sukuna needed to level the whole city? which is in turn like, the focal point of yuji's personal drama? not to mention however megumi becoming conscious later plays out, since that's when he'll find out his self-sacrificing final trump card didn't save the day - it made the day way way worse. i guess that's kind of a running theme in the arc? your decision to sacrifice yourself towards a goal isn't going to work out just because you sacrificed yourself for it - like any other action it's subject to the complex web of interactions and consequences called "reality". i'm not so sure atm it's really fully condemning the idea of self sacrifice but it is strongly rebuking the idea that you can sacrifice yourself in a bad situation and just expect that to benefit the people around you because you had good intentions with it, or because you really sacrificed everything for it. ultimately the answer to problems isn't hitting self destruct when you're backed into a corner and hoping everyone else makes it out ok - it was not being backed into a corner in the first place. and shibuya is the inflection point of jujutsu society being collectively backed into that corner by both the structural failings of jujutsu society as a whole and the individual, personal failings of the actors within it (especially gojo and mechamaru). that intricate web of failures is not something that can be fixed at the last second by a handful of people deciding their life is worth giving up for it. people killing themselves in service of a goal is not a real answer to anything, but it is a symptom of the problem getting so bad that it came to that in the first place. ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Dec 27, 2023 |
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Dec 27, 2023 22:17
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chiasaur11 posted:Except that's a card that you can only play once. Once the "core team" is vulnerable, you've got a lot more cynical caution from viewers, so the villain who does the takedown gets less hype every time you try it later. The gently caress are you talking about? Because of Mahito going chop chop on beloved supporting characters, the stage is set for survival against big hitters always being a coin flip from now on. Only Yuji gets the plot armor, and only in so far as he'll get to make it to the end, not necessarily the epilogue.
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Dec 27, 2023 22:22
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yuji's plot armor extends as far as "yuji will not literally die, because sukuna will bail him out but also destroy things and people that are important to him in the process"Conspiratiorist posted:The gently caress are you talking about? Because of Mahito going chop chop on beloved supporting characters, the stage is set for survival against big hitters always being a coin flip from now on. Only Yuji gets the plot armor, and only in so far as he'll get to make it to the end, not necessarily the epilogue. i guess if your idea of stakes is "one dramatic twist once in a blue moon" characters dying can feel like it devalues dramatic moments though i do kind of feel like a big part of this arc was specifically establishing "no one is safe" since all the big safety pillars have been removed or disarmed. gojo's out of commission, nanami's dead, and todo lost his hand and can't use his technique anymore. there is no one punch man promise that someone will show up at the very last second to snag victory from the jaws of defeat, everyone who reliably could do that is gone now. literally all that's left is the b-tier side filler characters who you'd expect to go out in a dramatic moment lol, it's the guys you'd naturally assume are going to be the ones on the chopping block who need to save the day now. that's actually pretty cool now that i'm putting it together ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Dec 27, 2023 |
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Dec 27, 2023 22:35
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ninjewtsu posted:wasn't the big dumb monster fight also the entire reason that sukuna needed to level the whole city? = like he wasn't going to do that already
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Dec 28, 2023 03:00
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Tunicate posted:like he wasn't going to do that already was he? he literally ran out of time as a physical manifestation immediately after doing that EDIT: looks like his big fuga blast was what actually made the crater my bad ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Dec 28, 2023 |
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Dec 28, 2023 03:28
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| # ? May 12, 2024 17:44 |
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Game of Thrones killed like half its cast for shock value and to create the idea that anyone could be next. And that worked, for a time. Then it emerged that if you killed like half the likeable characters in an ensemble, all the people who really liked those guys, suddenly don't have people that they like any more. And then when you try to get people invested in new characters, they just, don't. Because they either don't hit the way the first guys did, or simply because their life is on a coin flip so what's the point in becoming invested? At this point I've seen so many shows of different forms ape this and then go on to fail, Young Justice is a big one that comes to mind, that doing poo poo like this just isn't ballsy to me at all. It's like, the most basic and stupid way of getting a show to feel like it has stakes. Before I got upset at the obvious sexism of it, my immediate reaction to Nobara dying was to just, sigh. It wasn't shock, or outrage. I just disengaged because the character I was looking forward to seeing the most got written out. What attracted me to JJK was the back half of season 1 as I've said before. Which was an ensemble of characters I found interesting that I wanted to see grow from strength to strength with a core of three who I enjoyed, even though the main character was probably the most boring of them. It wasn't some sort of superlative show but I was really loving hyped by Chimera Shadow Garden and the loving double kill at the end was absolutely outstanding. I thought the pacing was really solid as well, with breathing room between arcs, whether it be getting to know the guys from the new school or a loving baseball episode. It was Shonen done competently with a cast I liked and I think, really importantly, a loving great female lead portrayed in a way that I do not think the genre has ever really managed to do well. And what little tension the subversion of season 2 has gained has come at the sacrifice of essentially all of this.
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Dec 28, 2023 04:08
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