roomtone posted:Well, yeah. There isn't. I think they knew this because the show had done a hard cut to black several times already by that point. It is adding more angles onto the ending, so there's more to think about. I didn't think Munch was actually going to shoot Dot, but I think he thought he might before he walked in that house. fair but also season 3 already very explicitly subverted the idea of an epilogue in one of the best moments of the show so the bets are kinda off
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Jan 25, 2024 23:54
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Munch gets hired at the dealership
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Jan 26, 2024 00:07
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A man prefers the 4-door sedan to the 2-door coupe. A boy doesn't know his future and must be prepared. A man... lives by the code... that you purchase the leather interior.
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Jan 26, 2024 00:11
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CatstropheWaitress posted:Old Mike Milligan having one last hurrah after years of accounting does feel like something they could do for a modern day season. What if Mike got plastic surgery from the same guy who did Hanzee? He could have been in this season all along!
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Jan 26, 2024 00:13
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I can’t really articulate it but I’ve gone back and rewatched some of this season, and I think Danish Graves might be my favorite character. Something about how he finally finds his balls at the worst possible time is very Fargo.
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Jan 26, 2024 00:45
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C2C - 2.0 posted:There’s a handful of accents in New Orleans; none of them resemble how Lorraine spoke. Aoi posted:I assumed it was meant to be a Welsh Tartan, which is a form of kilt, yes. Though, his being a (formerly) poverty stricken commoner with no one to care for him, he didn't have a family pattern, so it was in solid colors. My only complaint about the ending scene was that they could have done another cute moment where the daughter (who is some level of gender nonconforming) thinks it's neat that Munch is a boy wearing a skirt, adding to Munch's comic bewilderment.
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Jan 26, 2024 14:15
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roomtone posted:Yeah I was thinking all the way throught the last few episodes - in my story, Dot just point blank kills Roy without any hesitation and no torturing on her way out of this back to her own world. In this story, he needs to be erased. Forgotten, nothing, it doesn't even matter if he 'wants to die' as the last 2 eps were putting forth, he just has gotta go because of the damage he does. He won't stop, can't be fixed, and just has to go. But we don't need to enjoy it. I actually don't see things ending that badly for Roy. He's really good at manipulating weak individuals and prison is full of them. Also, a guy like him probably already has ins with the Aryan Brotherhood and their ilk which more or less runs the place. Then again, he is an ex-cop and they generally don't do well in prison.
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Jan 26, 2024 14:51
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Cat Army
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MightyJoe36 posted:I actually don't see things ending that badly for Roy. He's really good at manipulating weak individuals and prison is full of them. Also, a guy like him probably already has ins with the Aryan Brotherhood and their ilk which more or less runs the place. Loraine forgave the debt of pretty much the entire prison on the basis that they make Roy's life a living hell. He's hosed. I see that ending as a horrible person besting another horrible person. Doltos posted:Yeah definitely agree with that. Lorraine's storyline ends on a bad note because she's no better than Tillman even though she thinks she is. Dot's story is about forgiving and enduring. She ends on a victory because she saved Munch instead of holding on to anger. This, 100%
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Jan 26, 2024 15:00
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MightyJoe36 posted:I actually don't see things ending that badly for Roy. He's really good at manipulating weak individuals and prison is full of them. Also, a guy like him probably already has ins with the Aryan Brotherhood and their ilk which more or less runs the place. I'm pretty sure his neck tattoo in the jail scene was both new and a white supremacist symbol. I think he's already thrown in with the AB, which makes the threatening looks from fellow inmates worse. He thought those were the guys who he was good with. 
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Jan 26, 2024 15:11
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MightyJoe36 posted:I actually don't see things ending that badly for Roy. He's really good at manipulating weak individuals and prison is full of them. Also, a guy like him probably already has ins with the Aryan Brotherhood and their ilk which more or less runs the place. Yeah he's a cop and a child rapist (although that part may not be well publicized), historically not gonna do well in prison even before the entire cell block is paid off to brutalize him
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Jan 26, 2024 15:13
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oh jay posted:What if Mike got plastic surgery from the same guy who did Hanzee? He could have been in this season all along! poo poo what if Mike was Lorraine this whole time
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Jan 26, 2024 16:43
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Tender Bender posted:Yeah he's a cop and a child rapist (although that part may not be well publicized), historically not gonna do well in prison even before the entire cell block is paid off to brutalize him he probably had a chance initially because even with that stacked against him he's extremely brutal and comfortable in this sort of environment. probably was able to form a small power bloc pretty quickly but that's all gone now. Lorraine is straight-up paying most/all of the prison a not-insignificant amount of money to make his life hell forever. he has nothing to offer to top that.
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Jan 26, 2024 18:31
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power and ideology is at the end always second to capital
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Jan 26, 2024 18:37
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I’m kind of surprised the FBI agents made it though the season. I figured they’d be a late season death over Farr
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Jan 26, 2024 18:40
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bobjr posted:I’m kind of surprised the FBI agents made it though the season. I figured they’d be a late season death over Farr I thought them and the SWAT team leader were gonna get got but no it turns out his whole "I was in a firefight yesterday" thing was indicative of how easy the fight was gonna be
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Jan 26, 2024 19:15
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I think I'm changing my mind on the season finale. I was initially frustrated watching it but it was a nice and satisfying ending outside of Witt being an idiot.
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Jan 26, 2024 21:04
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Doppelganger posted:I can’t really articulate it but I’ve gone back and rewatched some of this season, and I think Danish Graves might be my favorite character. Something about how he finally finds his balls at the worst possible time is very Fargo. I also love Danish but I don't agree he found his balls at the end exclusively, he's always shown to be really effective. He's an oddity for sure -- in the sense that nobody shot him years ago.
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Jan 26, 2024 21:21
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GolfHole posted:I also love Danish but I don't agree he found his balls at the end exclusively, he's always shown to be really effective. he operated in an old-school Republican world -- he's a member of a protected class who uses every loophole and exception he can to enrich himself and his patron and harm others. If a law inconveniences him he gets it changed. Violence in his world is only visited upon the poor and the type of criminal who can't or won't navigate the law the way he and Lorraine do. He went up against Roy, a MAGA Republican motivated by grievance and emotion who cares purely about power in a very primal sense. Danish didn't realize this and it got him killed.
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Jan 26, 2024 22:10
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New favorite thing from the finale: when Wayne gives Moonch a pop, he says "a man is grateful" which he has previously said. When Scotty tell him how much a cup is, he just blurts out "thank you." He can't keep up the act in the face of overwhelming love and kindness.
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Jan 27, 2024 03:09
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Doltos posted:I think I'm changing my mind on the season finale. I was initially frustrated watching it but it was a nice and satisfying ending outside of Witt being an idiot. we got him 
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Jan 27, 2024 09:33
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DaveKap posted:In the words of Munch, immediately before being interrupted by Scotty, "A man... has a code. Hot drat. Just reading through this thread, and it is all very interesting, but this has to be the worst misheard-lyrics-thing I ever made. Just before, Dot has Wayne take his coat. So I heard him, faltering and mumbling, protest about this "A man... has a coat." Especially with his funky diction I didn't think this was weird because I took the entire scene as the three of them systematically derobing him of his affectations, ending at the core of him, eating love instead of sin, thus entirely undoing him as the unstoppable force so thematic to the works of the Coen Brothers. Also feel like Witt and Danish died due to the same thing: lack of fear for a cornered animal. They were unafraid for diametrically opposed reasons, but equally foolish to be so none the less.
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Jan 28, 2024 09:35
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Meatgrinder posted:Hot drat. Just reading through this thread, and it is all very interesting, but this has to be the worst misheard-lyrics-thing I ever made. Just before, Dot has Wayne take his coat. So I heard him, faltering and mumbling, protest about this "A man... has a coat." Especially with his funky diction I didn't think this was weird because I took the entire scene as the three of them systematically derobing him of his affectations, ending at the core of him, eating love instead of sin, thus entirely undoing him as the unstoppable force so thematic to the works of the Coen Brothers. Witt is absolutely terrified in that scene.
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Jan 28, 2024 14:02
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Doltos posted:I didn't think Munch was going to do anything to Dot at the beginning of the scene. The action already felt deflated by that point and I don't think there was much of a thematic reason for him to kill her outside of a pessimistic view on the world. He absolutely was and the deflated action was the entire point and source of the tension. You thought everything was over and settled, time for the happy family to get their happy ending, and then there's Munch. I wouldn't call it pessimism, a man has a code. My wife had never seen any season so we just finished a watch through of all five last night, starting a few weeks ago. She was really sad that Witt died and absolutely hated Gator. He was just such an iconic "love to hate" characte. So many great touches like the vape. Her favorite to least seasons list is 1>5>2>4>3. She liked them all but said 3 was complete garbage. The Grumbles posted:Witt is absolutely terrified in that scene. Exactly. Witt died because of fear. Danish died because of a lack of it. ChesterJT fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Jan 28, 2024 |
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Jan 28, 2024 16:44
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ChesterJT posted:Exactly. Witt died because of fear. Danish died because of a lack of it. Rewatched it and have to disagree. I see a man who is trying his hardest not to needlessly kill someone who he is arresting. His voice is steady, his actions are decisive, he faces danger head on without blinking. He does not like what is happening and has a clear idea of what might happen if he persists but does so with only the slightest trepidation and hesitation. I feel he does this every time throughout the series when he is faced with overwhelming intimidation: he is unflinching and unrelenting in doing what is right. I do not see him as afraid but as someone who is gentle and does not put any negative emotions in his words or even the violence he has to use. I see that gentleness as the cause of his death.
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Jan 28, 2024 17:11
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ChesterJT posted:He absolutely was and the deflated action was the entire point and source of the tension. You thought everything was over and settled, time for the happy family to get their happy ending, and then there's Munch. I wouldn't call it pessimism, a man has a code. I meant more from a storytelling viewpoint. I assume writers have a tough time killing someone you've been cheering for after 300 pages. I didn't think the writers had the reason or the gall to have Munch kill Dot at the end even though they're trying to set up that all of it isn't over yet tension.
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Jan 28, 2024 19:23
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So. Most seasons, and the movie IIRC, do the fadeout from "This is a true story" to leave "true" alone for a few seconds. Season three has "true" fade first and then leaves "story" alone, and that's fairly easy to connect with the themes of that season. But Season 4 just has the whole phrase fade at once. Any thoughts on what that's saying about that season?
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Jan 28, 2024 22:03
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IIRC the only seasons that don't fade the whole phrase at once, including the movie, are 3 and 5
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Jan 28, 2024 22:07
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Witt died because he failed to shoot the guy he was arresting. Moral: cops should be more violent.
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Jan 29, 2024 02:17
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If he's so dumb how come he's dead.
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Jan 29, 2024 18:29
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GolfHole posted:I also love Danish but I don't agree he found his balls at the end exclusively, he's always shown to be really effective.
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Jan 29, 2024 20:31
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Yeah the main theme of S5 might have been debt, but another one, which has also threaded the previous seasons enough that it should be added as a sub addendum to the basic premise of the show, decency meeting the ultimate evil. There are things in this world that are so depraved, so mired in blood and needless violence, that you will not survive encountering them unless you are willing to shed morality and especially the rule of law, which more than likelu is slanted towards these beings. That at times, it is better to let that evil pass by and not notice you than it is to engage and inevitably fail. It's a pretty dark theme, but it's almost similar to what you do in a blizzard. You don't go out there swinging your fists. You hunker down, with who you love, and wait it out until.it finally ends. E: Danish is an interesting case because this season separated the specter of the lack of no legal consequences from the antagonists. But even Danish was tangling with something he was absolutely not ready for, a more primal and ancient form of evil, that absolutely had no interest in laws he in turn manipulated. Shageletic fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Jan 29, 2024 |
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Jan 29, 2024 20:44
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Shageletic posted:It's a pretty dark theme, but it's almost similar to what you do in a blizzard. You don't go out there swinging your fists. You hunker down, with who you love, and wait it out until.it finally ends. If I was in a blizzard I would simply shoot my crush/future wife.
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Jan 29, 2024 20:46
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oh jay posted:If I was in a blizzard I would simply shoot my crush/future wife. I mean, points for initiative
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Jan 29, 2024 20:48
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"I don't want to push my chips forward and go out and meet something I don't understand."
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Jan 29, 2024 20:49
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Doppelganger posted:Oh for sure, you don’t get Danish’s job if you can’t make things happen. I was more referring to how he ignores the call from his boss Lorraine before going to see Roy on his own. He’s absolutely cowboying up to try and save Dorothy, and it is his undoing. In a way he does inadvertently save Dorothy because his arrival disrupts whatever Roy would’ve ended up doing to her in that moment.
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Jan 30, 2024 06:32
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Doppelganger posted:Oh for sure, you don’t get Danish’s job if you can’t make things happen. I was more referring to how he ignores the call from his boss Lorraine before going to see Roy on his own. He’s absolutely cowboying up to try and save Dorothy, and it is his undoing. Yeah. Sadly, in a way, Lorraine is definitely partly responsible for his death as well. Because he didn't think she'd give a poo poo about Dorothy being in danger, based on her past behaviors toward her (not knowing about her slightly changing opinion that was happening at the time), and thought she wouldn't do anything to help her. But he cared about the Lyon family more than was likely healthy (family only for the photo) for him in that particular moment, and...yeah.
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Jan 30, 2024 21:58
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Danish was an evil, arrogant minion of a billionaire. He thought Tillman was a nothing poor person like every other person he ran around bullying for Lorraine. He probably lived so long not worrying about ever facing retribution that he became lazy. He was definitely trying to solve the whole problem like he always did in the past but he finally had to face someone that wasn't easily threatened or cowed. In a way the scene felt a lot like a battle of consequences. Lorraine and Danish operated in a world that if you don't do X you'll be punished by Y. Tillman lived in a world where he could do whatever he want regardless of what led up to the moment or what happened afterwards.
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Jan 31, 2024 04:16
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That's quite the fan-fiction you've created.
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Jan 31, 2024 05:02
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I feel like that's a fairly straight forward interpretation?
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Jan 31, 2024 05:04
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Doltos posted:Danish was an evil, arrogant minion of a billionaire. He thought Tillman was a nothing poor person like every other person he ran around bullying for Lorraine. He probably lived so long not worrying about ever facing retribution that he became lazy. He was definitely trying to solve the whole problem like he always did in the past but he finally had to face someone that wasn't easily threatened or cowed. He engages with Tillman in that way not because he sees him as a 'nothing poor person' (wild take imo) but because he incorrectly sees him as another political chess piece on the board. But he obviously recognises that Tillman has a modicum of power, he just has a pre-populist view of Tillman's own relationship with that power. None of that would make sense if he saw him as a 'nothing poor person'. Buoyed by his successful dismantling to Tillman's career, he assumes he can use this as leverage. But the very idea of 'leverage' is something that only exists if people recognise the same set of rules and power structures, which Tillman doesn't give a poo poo about it's about Trump
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Jan 31, 2024 13:18
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