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The fact that they're a million people crammed into hastily-pressurized caves over a few months as a propaganda stunt, with no local economic base, is a pretty good reason to keep Luna under direct COMINTERN administration for now. I don't necessarily want to commit ourselves to that forever, but the colony's barely even established and surely can't stand on its own yet. Someday it will be able to, but full independence and self-governance is a bit extreme at this current moment.
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Oct 24, 2020 02:44
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Lunagrad: CBDA Gladio: ABCD Survey ships: B Survey priorities: BAC S-17: YES F-18: NO F-19: YES JR-20: YES A-21: NO S-22: NO Y-23: YES Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Oct 26, 2020 |
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Oct 26, 2020 15:39
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Fivemarks posted:New Afrika would also like to believe that this body has no counterrevolutionary members, but cautions suspicion of those who vote against giving autonomy to colonies. For what reason do we wish to repeat the mercantilism and folly of Britain and France? Humanity's place among the stars needs to be not just explicitly internationalist, but transcending the concept of Earth nationalisms all together. The people residing on the Moon obviously have a right to representation and local governance befitting their unique conditions, but creating new independent nations is counter to the socialist project and formalizes divisions we should be eliminating. Incorporation as an autonomous oblast within the Comintern allows for local self-governance while still maintaining the primacy of the socialist project over loyalty to any specific piece of planetary crust and/or regolith. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Oct 27, 2020 |
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Oct 27, 2020 05:34
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If option C wins then all offworld colonies will be direct parts of the post-national interstellar body the Comintern should become, are we trying to build a unified socialist humanity here or just re-creating the failed bourgeois experiments of the League of Nations and United Nations but with a red coat of paint?
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Oct 27, 2020 16:04
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The game won't passively generate rebels and such within the mechanics but it's entirely within the abilities of the GM to manually edit in an enemy faction set up as rebels/a civil war/whatever if the narrative calls for it
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Oct 28, 2020 21:32
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It's generally easiest to have one single major industrial center in a system where all the factories and population are, then a bunch of small to moderate sized mining colonies on bodies with large and/or accessible TNE deposits that fire all the minerals over to the industrial hub to feed the factories. Extraction colonies are extremely necessary but manufacturing is probably all best done on Earth for the forseeable future with its bottomless workforce and breathable air. If Luna doesn't have any TNE's then Lunagrad is very, very hosed. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Oct 29, 2020 |
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Oct 29, 2020 19:54
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Foxfire_ posted:Why? It might not be a strategically important center of mining and industry, but neither are most places on Earth. It's kind of like Minnesota or Vladivostok with slightly worse weather. Minnesota and Vladivostok are still places that humans can survive with minimal TNE-based life support infrastructure, jokes about the weather are fun but it's a fundamentally hostile environment to human existence in a way that nowhere on Earth except kinda maybe Antarctica is, and at least you can still breathe the air there. There is zero reason to put anything on Lunagrad if there's no TNE's there, research labs and financial centers would be much better off on the garden world 45 seconds away where their population wouldn't be tying up infrastructure that could be shipped somewhere with an actual industrial application. Earth being right there means anything besides a mine that you could build on the Moon would be better off on Earth. If Luna has TNE's, then great Lunagrad just became some of the most valuable mineral extraction real estate in the solar system. If it doesn't, we should really set up some plaques and monuments, leave behind a little (so little it's pure fluff) research colony, and ship everything and everyone else back down the well before it gets super out of hand and we're stuck pouring resources into a boondoggle colony with no use besides PR. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Oct 29, 2020 |
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Oct 29, 2020 20:44
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It still adds up and there's no reason to build up a population of millions and millions on an airless rock with no TNE's when there is a perfectly good garden world right there next door. An academy is the kind of thing we can throw in on a moderately developed mining colony we were building anyways, it's not worth keeping a colony around for the sole purpose of supporting.
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Oct 29, 2020 21:06
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They never should have been there in the first place, we massively jumped the gun on everything related to Lunagrad multiple times. Relocating a million refugees is a rounding error, we're riding herd on billions with far worse sob stories that don't require us to keep pouring resources into a giant airless sinkhole. Let's just really hope there's TNE's there and we don't have to worry about any of this.
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Oct 29, 2020 21:15
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It's entirely possible for the story to be "we got really excited about this brave new era of communism and Trans-Newtonian technology and did the big thing people have been dreaming about for millennia only to find out after a decade that it's kinda useless"
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Oct 29, 2020 21:20
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If there's no TNE's that's all it will ever be though, we'll be scrambling to come up with a post-facto reason to keep Lunagrad existing while Mars or the Jupiter system or wherever the TNE's are hiding gets the heavy investment, passes it by, and turns Lunagrad into an antiquated relic. Which is a perfectly fine story to tell, just if I were playing the game with no narrative only mechanics I would be getting rid of the colony if there weren't any TNE's there. It's not the end of the world if we keep Lunagrad around with no TNE's, just not perfect play, it's not super critical that we have an evacuation plan in place even if I'd prefer it. And hopefully there are TNE's and this is all pointless anyways.
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Oct 29, 2020 21:28
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You can't have population living permanently on mobile ships, unfortunately. Orbital habitat modules can hold 200k people, but they are loving massive and basically impossible to fit in a shipyard, they're only practical on engineless space stations built with planetside industry. They're very useful for doing something like colonizing Venus or similar very high colony cost bodies, you can build some habitats at your nearest industrial center and tow them into orbit of a body so all your colonists working the Venusian mines can live there instead of wildly expensive surface bunkers, but I don't think you can deploy them in deep space and even if you did there's very little for the population to do in deep space. You could maybe get around that by building a flotilla of tugs and dragging your habitation stations around between planets but I believe (not sure) that habitats can't be towed while there are people living in them so you'd need another attendant fleet of cryo storage barges to hold the whole population in transit. There's definitely no economic reason to do any of that, but it could mostly be kludged together at great expense. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Oct 30, 2020 |
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Oct 30, 2020 19:37
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Terraformers take time to make a planet habitable (and for Venus it can take a LONG time) while an orbital habitat is ready to receive workers the second it arrives, plus terraformers only change the atmosphere, if the gravity is what's loving up the colony cost then there's nothing you can ever do so orbital habs are always good for high gravity bodies.
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Oct 30, 2020 19:52
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Torpedos in the old style of "super close ranged missiles that hit the same tick they're launched to avoid PD fire" don't work quite as well anymore, but only because the exploit in PD logic got fixed. There's still a case to be made for very short ranged missiles that trade that fuel space for more engine and/or warhead, and fighters are a great way to deliver them.
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Oct 31, 2020 23:12
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Prefixes: E D F G C B A Research: C D B A Socialist Aid Program: A B C I-24, Repeal the No First Strike Doctrine: NO A-25, Service Medals: YES K-26, Adoption of a Revolutionary Rank Structure: YES F-27, Drunken Industrial Bear: YES F-28, Research Optimization Cleanup: YES F-29, A Ten-Year Service Medal: NO L-30, Low-Gravity Infrastructure: NO I-31, Five-Year Plans: YES H-32, The Mars Program: YES N-33, the TNE Reuse, Reduce, and Recycling Act: YES N-34, the Public Broadcasting Service: YES S-35, FESTER: NO A-36, Space Autonomy Model: NO A-37, A Common Language for Space: YES
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Nov 3, 2020 07:24
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A limited production run of two mass drivers and moving one of them plus a mine to Lunagrad just to play with the super basics of off-Earth mining and mineral transfer might be helpful both as a mechanical illustration and narrative beat but yeah there's no need for a gold rush.
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Nov 7, 2020 18:30
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I'm going to be the dissenting voice and recommend we don't send a bunch of random untrained, unbriefed, unequipped sailors to go stomp around the biggest archaeological find in human history taking selfies and poking random poo poo with sticks. This is loving massive and needs to be handled properly by real archaeologists with real training, preferably with lots and lots of remote observation from orbit/far away before we poke anything. Who knows what's down there, and even if it's nothing dangerous we should leave the site completely undisturbed until real scientists show up to avoid contaminating it.
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Nov 8, 2020 00:13
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A bunch of 0.9 accessibility gallicite on Venus is really nice, we got a super lucky Sol system with all these minerals and ruins everywhere
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Nov 8, 2020 05:59
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Mister Bates posted:We have also identified a single frustratingly elusive mobile source, which is definitely sending radio communications to active nodes, but moves around too often for us to pinpoint it more specifically than 'somewhere within a few thousand kilometers of the North Sea'. I don't want to be one of those assholes and bring up the Revenge, but... well, has anybody turned up a convincing wreck of the SSBN Revenge yet? Actually wait, the nerds used one of the new sensor packages to map a bunch of new unknown shipwrecks at an archaeological site didn't they? Can we use that technology to look for subs and/or wrecks elsewhere on the planet?
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Nov 9, 2020 06:23
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Orbital mineral surveys are basically the "first pass" you get at a body, sometimes a body will have further ground survey potential to try and catch things the orbital scan missed. If a body does have potential, you can send a ground survey team equipped with ground survey vehicles to do an in-depth survey of the body and potentially turn up new deposits of minerals/up the accessibility of existing deposits.
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Nov 9, 2020 07:46
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Mister Bates posted:That having been said, you could still try, and if you specify a more narrow search area it'll take correspondingly less time. I think we should still give it a shot, we don't need to scan the whole planet but at least the North Sea, then the Arctic and North Atlantic if possible. If nothing else finding some wrecked subs left over from the war sitting on the bottom lets us know where a bunch of nuclear reactors and/or warheads are just laying around so we can clean them up later. And if the wreck count comes up a few "dead" subs short....
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Nov 9, 2020 18:22
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Antilles posted:1. Research Improved Command & Control. 2. Build a Sector Command facility on Earth (possibly with some amount of Infrastructure that is then deleted to represent it being an arcology?). 3. Change Sector Governor every 5 years. Seconding these. The proposals I left out were left out on purpose, I'm not so sold on bringing the Japanese in so close so quick. They make all the right noises, sure, but their militarization and hosting of revanchist governments are not encouraging signs. Bringing up GLADIO is a bad idea with unaligned third parties too imo, it might help a bit in some negotiations but it will DEFINITELY get leaked back to GLADIO that we know quite a bit about them and are actively pursuing them.
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Nov 11, 2020 00:14
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Asterite34 posted:Man, the moon is in such a weird place right now, in that we don't have a large enough workforce to spin up heavy resource extraction or industry, but we're already at population capacity unless we start throwing infrastructure at it that we just don't have until Earth's native industry gets converted. Well the original plan was for them to be a research base like a tenth the size (or smaller) right now, and only get as big as they currently after Earth was more fixed up. But then the Hawaiians showed up. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Nov 11, 2020 |
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Nov 11, 2020 01:43
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Fantastical imaginings about interstellar travel aside, the MOSA is a moderately sized civilian industrial and scientific agency. Instituting harsh wartime measures for imaginary battles against an imagined enemy seems... premature?
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Nov 11, 2020 03:56
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Microwaves can't touch engines, they only fry electronics. Mesons can theoretically hit engines pretty early if they roll lucky, but there's no way to intentionally target a ship's engines beyond just shooting it a lot and hoping you hit them. Boarding as a combat method instead of a post-battle cleanup of crippled ships basically requires dedicated boarding shuttles, and the need to go super crazy fast means they're usually flimsy enough to get swatted by light/PD weaponry. With an engine tech advantage and some armor techs they're not impossible to make, you just need a bit of a tech edge to make something that's fast enough to board in combat but sturdy enough to not instantly die to the ship's PD.
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Nov 16, 2020 02:30
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Veloxyll posted:
Where's the ring?
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Nov 24, 2020 07:46
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Maybe it's the crew of the Cyclops 60 years late and on the wrong planet.... or the natives are just broadcasting the only human-intelligible signal they have a record of? Even if the Cyclops did get snatched by little green men from the stars, who knows if they're still alive, this could easily be a recording of the last message they sent out in 1918 that the snatch squad recorded and is now beaming at us since we're humans and we speak the human beeps right? "We see you up there, hello" rather than an actual distress call from the Cyclops. OTOH it's awfully convenient that the structures are glowing at a perfect human-friendly 21C if they aren't full of humans..... What the gently caress is going on 
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Dec 15, 2020 17:31
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GunnerJ posted:Purely hypothetically, would nuking it from orbit be an option? Always. Even without any missile boats surely we have access to someone smart enough to push a warhead out the airlock while on an impact trajectory.
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Dec 16, 2020 00:06
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Yeah it's not worded like some third or fourth generation descendants in an alien zoo sending a.... morse code signal from the radio transmitter they built in their zoo? It's worded like a ship broadcasting a distress call on Earth in 1918, likely because it's a recording of a ship broadcasting a distress call on Earth in 1918. I can't imagine that if there are humans alive there right now that they would word a message like that and broadcast it to ??? with ??? in the hopes that ???
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Dec 16, 2020 21:56
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I don't think it's bait for a trap but some weird alien bullshit, I don't know why they're broadcasting a loop of a distress call from decades ago but I think it's what they're doing. Kinda by definition we can't assume to have any idea what their motivations or thought process are like. They're alien, inherently different from humans, projecting our own logic onto them is dangerous. That's not to say they're inherently enemies of course, just inherently different, we can get over differences with enough time and information. Neither of which we have right now, though.
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Dec 16, 2020 22:05
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HiHo ChiRho posted:Yeah, but how would a ship from 1918 be able to continually broadcast a recorded distress signal for 60 years? They could have a phonograph or phonogram to record it, sure but that would also be pretty odd to find on a waship carrying ores, no? Oh I mean the aliens are looping the distress call they recorded back in 1918, not that the human crew somehow still is
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Dec 17, 2020 01:31
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Huh Ok what the gently caress
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Dec 17, 2020 04:58
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Terrifying Effigies posted:Well, the good news is we finally ran out of wars! That's what they were saying 10 years after the first last war too though
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Dec 17, 2020 06:09
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The landing legs on the Proton/Electron are an afterthought stapled on Just In Case that the nerds aren't really sure will last more than one or two uses, trying to press some listening posts made out of duct tape and spit into service as planetary shuttles probably isn't the best idea. Unless the signalman down there is convinced they're all gonna die in a week, everyone can hang tight long enough for the freighters to show up with something at least slightly more useful than a SIGINT outpost with a nuke strapped to the back.
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Dec 17, 2020 18:13
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They've been living on Mars and have already accepted that they're (probably, they think) on Mars for the past year, leaving them on Mars is probably fine psychologically? If human ships full of human food and human doctors and human infrastructure keep showing up that's enough to not go insane while getting debriefed in a Martian processing center we put up next to the ruins. The Moon is a hell of a lot more alien than Mars, at least on Mars there's still an atmosphere (thin but at least it exists), a day/night cycle roughly the same as Earth instead of a month long, and the gravity is closer to Earth. Hauling them all back to the Moon and making them stare at Earth every day while they barf all over the place from the gravity change and see constant ships zipping back and forth every 45 seconds that they aren't allowed to be on is probably the worse option.
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Dec 19, 2020 17:03
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Barsoom is on the wrong side of the planet and can do approximately nothing to help the people trapped in the Face, how exactly is the Barsoom outpost supposed to monitor the Face? They can't just take a rover out to the nearest highway on-ramp and drive over, there's thousands and thousands of kilometers of unsurveyed broken terrain in the way, maybe in 50 years it'll be possible to easily travel across the surface of Mars but right now Barsoom and the Face might as well be on two different planets for all that they can interact with each other. At the moment it's easier to get from Earth to the Face via spaceship than to get from Barsoom to the Face via ground travel. But we also can't leave the Face unattended, even if we evac'd everyone awake right now there are still untold thousands of humans on ice in alien cryotubes that are waking up apparently at random, we need people on-site 24/7 not just to study the ruins but also to help any newly awakened prisoners. Since Barsoom is too far away to meaningfully contribute, we need a permanent base near the Face, and that permanent base we need to build regardless is a far better debriefing and quarantine location than a bustling city of a million people with a wildly different culture from everything the prisoners are used to. Immediately evac'ing to Luna might be emotionally resonant but it's a terrible idea from a scientific and logistical perspective, they'd just have to be held de facto prisoner in quarantine on Luna for months as the nerds go over them to make sure they aren't full of crazy Space Diseases or alien rectal probes or whatever. They need to be quarantined and debriefed over a few months, we can't just turn them loose in the general population next week, better to do that somewhere isolated and purpose-built. I think people are severely underestimating the psychological shock these guys are going to suffer as we bring them up to speed on the state of the world, they need to be in a controlled environment under expert medical and psychiatric care, for everyone's safety. And these are people from just a few decades ago who at least understand the concepts of industrial civilization and modern(ish) political/economic structures. What the gently caress are we supposed to do if the next people that wake up are a cohort of kidnapped Roman Legionaries or something? Sure as hell can't take them to Luna and just hope they figure it out. As such, I propose that the COMINTERN establish a permanent outpost within easy travel distance of the Face, initially geared towards humanitarian relief and debriefing for the currently awake prisoners, and a long-term mission of studying the ruins and waking/debriefing the prisoners that remain on ice. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Dec 20, 2020 |
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Dec 20, 2020 17:10
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Creating an environment that would ease the transition for abductees to modern life is important, of course, but I doubt our ability to make it work in this specific form. Even our best-intentioned and expert-advised attempts at recreating a facsimile of past societies is going to be filtered through however many centuries of academic guesswork, biases, and incomplete/misunderstood archaeological evidence. I doubt we could do anything more than build theme parks that look cool to modern eyes but would be incredibly disorienting and creepy to live in for someone actually from that time period. Personally at least, I know that if I got abducted by aliens and teleported centuries/millennia into the future I really wouldn't trust the weird Walt Disney Presents: Our Modern And Very Incorrect Caricature Of Your Time Period zoo my "rescuers" stuffed me in
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Dec 20, 2020 20:15
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Foxfire_ posted:Agree on quarantine/debrief, but where should we put them? I guess they're a minimum of a month back to earth, which is long enough to run off a unit of infrastructure if we want to set up an isolation ward on the Moon. Luna would have to stay back awhile to move that though. Or we have Earth-side people set up facilities on some island in that month. Mars? They're already there and it's very far away from any population centers. Send over a freighter load or two of Infrastructure and we've got ourselves a base that can support thousands of people, the logistics aren't hard if you want to just set up a small outpost instead of a city of millions.
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Dec 21, 2020 00:54
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NewMars posted:You know, sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who can't stand Peter Watts. His novels sound a lot better as thought experiments than actual entertaing prose. Also the torture's not great. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Dec 22, 2020 |
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Dec 22, 2020 02:16
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| # ¿ May 15, 2024 09:19 |
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The Awake: C The Asleep: A The Site: A The Discord: N
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Dec 26, 2020 03:09
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