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CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug
Re: us being the only sentient life. There's a science fiction short story that I read (but have unfortunately forgotten the name of) that explores this idea. A couple volunteer to pilot a ship traveling at FTL speeds to go explore the universe and find life. The problem is, they never do. They go farther and farther from earth and every planet is as devoid of life as the next. Eventually they reach the point of no return and have to make a decision: do we turn back and return to earth having failed to find life, or do we press on to try and find it (I think they could send data back to earth?) knowing we won't have the fuel or time or whatever to return? If anyone knows what this story is called please remind me cus I've been dying to reread it. The idea that we are utterly and completely alone in the universe is oddly fascinating to me.

Re: the 1-10 vs 1-100 problem, my critique of that theory is that it assumes a lot about when humanity will end. Yes, you'd be wise to pick 1-10 if you knew the only other option was 1-100. However, there could also be a 1-1,000 group, or hell a 1-1,000,000,000. At that point, being in room 7 isn't that significantly different from being in room 77. I mean yes you're still most likely in group 1-10, but that doesn't mean 1-100 is unlikely either. Yeah if humanity only goes to 200 billion total humans then we're near the end of things, but it could also go to 200 trillion. It also seems to be a very modern-focused frame of thinking. If you asked someone the same question when there were only 200 million humans, they'd have likely come to the conclusion that humanity was soon doomed as well. After all, it's way more likely you're in the 200m group than the 200b group!

E: also the suicide pact tech may very well be greenhouse gases at this point

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CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug

axeil posted:

As preposterous and geocentric as it sounds on its face, the evidence for "We're First" does appear quite good despite the overall age of the Universe.

To clarify, the "We're First" answer basically says that no, habitable planets and intelligent life are not that rare, however conditions only recently became such that intelligent life can form. Its a somewhat unsatisfying answer as it seems highly unlikely we're "special" but there is fairly decent evidence for it.

Here's an article going through the details of the Firstborn solution in a bit more depth: https://www.universetoday.com/147591/beyond-fermis-paradox-x-the-firstborn-hypothesis/


In no particular order the conditions you need for intelligent, biological life are:

1) Stellar formation in the right type (main sequence, sun-like stars, which are rarer than you think)
2) Sufficient quantity of higher numbered elements to form planets
3) Low number of cataclysmic, planet sterilizing effects (supernovae, gamma ray bursts, black holes, etc.)
4) Sufficient quantity of phosphorus. Until recently this wasn't seen as something that interesting but it does appear that phosphorus is much rarer in the universe at large than it is on our planet/in our solar system
5) Sufficient quantity of some kind of solvent for life (e.g. water)

This is a pretty long list and that's before we get to the habitable zone, tidal effects, etc.

I don't recall the exact figures but I believe they've determined that given these constrains the Earth was formed right at the start of the period in which all 5 of these criteria could generally be met.

Yeah while I agree it's not good to assume Geocentrism, I feel like there's almost a knee-jerk reaction to go as far away from it as possible. While unlikely that we're the first, or at least the most advanced, I don't think it's something that should be totally thrown out as a possibility based on how hard it seems for life to spring up.

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