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I don't create threads, and I will probably not make any more after this one. Please clown me softly, brothers. I used to keep a thread elsewhere where I posted when I encountered bigotry and bigotry-adjacent type things while watching and/or rewatching WWE, TNA, CZW, MLW, PWG, and ROH. I'm not super into posting there anymore, so I thought that I would post them here instead. It's more about finding it culturally interesting (and important that things were this way so recently) than about pitchforks, even if some people do figuratively still deserve them. We all know how wrestling used to be (and how it sometimes still is), but seeing the stuff listed had a different effect on me, personally. I censor stronger slurs for obvious reasons, but if reading about this kind of stuff bothers you, I would skip this thread. All of this was on TV or tape 17 years ago, sadly. --- Raw Aug 25, 2003: Coach says that his hat is "2003" to which JR responds: "What do you want me to do, call you dawg?" Coach says: "I mean, y'know, you wanna go racial with that?" --- Smackdown Aug 28, 2003: Eddie talks about his great something or another Abuelita being asked by a cop if she belonged in the US after passing over. She says yes, and that was her first lie. Her first time cheating was when all of her questions on the citizenship test were in English and she beat the hell out of the other Grandmother next to her, took her test, copied all the questions and became a US citizen. After she walked out of the test, she didn't have anyone to drive her, so she stole a donkey, because there were no lowriders back then. Cena comes out and says that there are many familiar faces for Eddie in this fairly Hispanic audience. He points out one guy and says that it was the first guy Eddie cheated on who let him cover all 4 of his bases. Says that after they spent the night together, Eddie couldn't walk right, that they started with dinner and a movie and ended up with a cock fight. He then tells Eddie that you don't belong here, that he stole a green card, and that he better run south before Cena calls border control. He tells him that it doesn't fit in because he's got the US title but he's not even a citizen. He then tells him to get deported, says that isn' a setback for Cena, and that he will pin him in the gulf of Mexico and leave him with a wet back. He then tells Eddie that he will break him open like a pinata. After going back and forth for quite awhile, Cena says that after he beats him he is "going to take your sister, homes" in a mocking accent --- PWG BAM Bad rear end Mother 3000 Stage 2 8/30/03 "I know that Commissioner Paul <anti-gay slur/f word> Teabagger has it in for the Hardcore Kidd." -Hardcore Kidd collocation fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Feb 24, 2021 |
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Oct 22, 2020 08:44
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im asking this question in earnestness and not to belittle you: how old are you
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Oct 22, 2020 08:56
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wwe was running gay jokes as recently as 2020 and was still really bad about racial storylines deep into the mid 00s. booker vs hhh, kurt angle's bestiality sex promo on sharmell where its strongly implied he was raping her backstage, everything about sheltons mama, Yoshitatsu's ecw debut, there is a lot of lovely stuff out there
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Oct 22, 2020 09:04
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I was just listening to the latest Bryan & Vinny podcast and they brought up that in the not altogether faraway year of 2001/2002 WWE was actively pushing racist stereotypes while trying to pretend to be self-aware about how racist they were, which actually made it worse because it meant they were knowingly being racist. Anyway, for this specific year, it was only 2003 when Triple H cut that "people like you are here to dance and entertain, not be champion" promo on Booker T, went on to continually racially belittle him, then went ahead and won the Wrestlemania feud anyway. 2003. Edit: Got the year wrong 
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Oct 22, 2020 09:04
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Jerusalem posted:I was just listening to the latest Bryan & Vinny podcast and they brought up that in the not altogether faraway year of 2001/2002 WWE was actively pushing racist stereotypes while trying to pretend to be self-aware about how racist they were, which actually made it worse because it meant they were knowingly being racist. 2003 but the 2007 feud was also similarly bad for similar circumstances, only now HHH was the face saying the same things! after booker lost the feud (again) they told him he had failed a drug test and needed to go to rehab (which was never asked of other failures like randy orton or edge) and he chose to quit instead
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Oct 22, 2020 09:06
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JOHN CENA posted:2003 but the 2007 feud was also similarly bad for similar circumstances, only now HHH was the face saying the same things! Yeah, can't believe I actually forgot they had two feuds. If I remember right, Booker T actually managed to force his way into sitting in on the creative meetings for the 2007 version to prevent that type of thing from happening again... then got beaten clean and made to look like a loser anyway. Again.
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Oct 22, 2020 09:07
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JOHN CENA posted:im asking this question in earnestness and not to belittle you: how old are you This may belittle me a bit, but I started watching in 1988, so. However, I pretty much completely stopped watching around 2005, and was brought back by the (now cancelled) network and NJPW world. I remembered the worst stuff or thought that I did, but I was surprised by how casual and frequent it was the second time around. I was also surprised by the extent to which it ramped up in the early 00's when they got desperate for ratings. People tend to view bigotry as something that has been slowly reduced over time, but WWE actually deciding that the post 9-11 environment needed more racism was quite a choice. I didn't watch any indies after WCW died, so stuff like the first ROH match being a gay baiting angle that got F word chants was entirely new to me. That's one that they will never be able to play on retrospectives, I guess. I am able to watch while working from home, so I watched a shitload of stuff when I had the network. Throughout watching stuff from the 50's to 2003, I had always sent the most ridiculously out of date stuff to a couple friends with a JEEZUS type tag, but I started compiling it when I got to 2003 because it was becoming even more common and frequent, and it seemed like a sequential reading of it might be worthwhile. collocation fucked around with this message at 09:46 on Oct 22, 2020 |
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Oct 22, 2020 09:30
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ROH 9/03/03 Beating the Odds: Homicide's yells "fuckin <f word slur>" at the Backseat Boyz as they arrive late to the show. He then says "You see, you should fire that <f word> rear end <n word>. Stop being a fuckin p***y Rob, you better fire that boy" to Feinstein.
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Oct 22, 2020 09:38
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JOHN CENA posted:booker vs hhh Knowing that was coming was part of why I started my original thread. I didn't want to post all the old stuff that I had already posted from this year in the OP because that would have made the op way too long, but those were some of the lowlights of the year so far: 03/03/03 Raw: HHH: "Booker I think you're a little confused about your role in life here" "Somebody like you doesn't get to be a world champion" "People like you don't deserve it, that's reserved for people like me" "You're not here to be a competitor, you're here to be an entertainer" "Do a little dance for me Book. Give me one of those spinaroonies. C'mon Book dance, entertain me. That's your job" "You're here to make people like me laugh" "That's your role, your job is to make people like me laugh" "with your nappy hair and your suckaz" "you're gonna do what people like you always do, you're gonna lose." --- 3/10/03 Raw: Flair: "Booker T, you aren't Michael Jordan, you're not Tiger Woods, and you drat sure aren't HHH <...> 19 months in the big house means your bad to the bone man, but you have been dealt a card, not a bad card, the card just doesn't say world heavyweight champion. <...> (Ric says that HHH said that he is not going to lower himself to Booker's level again) <...> (Flair says HHH has offered Booker two choices, the first of which is) "YOU CAN PICK UP OUR BAGS AND CARRY THEM OVER TO THAT LONG LIMO. YOU CAN PUT THAT chauffeurs's cap on and you can drive us downtown. Then you can take our bags in the building and you will have done something on that day that you are qualified to do." After Flair finishes, Booker beats him up. Then Booker goes backstage to confront HHH and HHH throws money at him and tells him to give him a towel. collocation fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Feb 24, 2021 |
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Oct 22, 2020 09:45
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He was actually talking about WCW guys, who famously worked as chauffeurs and carried towels
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Oct 22, 2020 09:48
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of course, triple h would never stoop so low as to drive people around and carry peoples bags to advance his career.
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Oct 22, 2020 09:49
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I found that the HHH angle made me even more sympathetic to Lio Rush. Whether all rookies carried other people's bags or not (Did Lars?), the fact that HHH was so aware of the racist trope to make it into an angle, made it pretty clear to me that he should not be in a position of authority to decide if/when it is disrespectful when a young black man doesn't want to carry people's bags.
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Oct 22, 2020 09:52
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aleister mentioned when he initially got called up with ricochet in 2019 he was staying around late after his match to get water ready for veterans and get their gear bags ready in the locker room (which is one of the unwritten codes of new wrestlers on the main roster) and undertaker pulled him aside after like two weeks of doing that and told him that people like him who have a future don't need to deal with that small fry stuff.
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Oct 22, 2020 10:01
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JOHN CENA posted:aleister mentioned when he initially got called up with ricochet in 2019 he was staying around late after his match to get water ready for veterans and get their gear bags ready in the locker room (which is one of the unwritten codes of new wrestlers on the main roster) and undertaker pulled him aside after like two weeks of doing that and told him that people like him who have a future don't need to deal with that small fry stuff. Silly Undertaker, there arn't any more stars. Also yeah see; this is the sort of lovely mentality that normalizes the idea of being used by powerful people in the wrestling world and kills any chance of unionizing on a fundamental level. Wrestlers...don't...really...unify. ChrisBTY fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Oct 22, 2020 |
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Oct 22, 2020 15:30
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Smackdown 09/11/03: After APA's 9/11 tribute toast and before the great PARKING LOT BRAWL, John Cena has this to say about Eddie Guerrero: "I'll force feed him gorditas 'til he explodes from diarrhea" "I fight with my light saber, his is for backdoor shenanigans" "You got no hydraulics in your car, you got a sexual sickness. His car bounces up and down because he sits on a stick shift"
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Oct 22, 2020 22:09
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Jerusalem posted:I was just listening to the latest Bryan & Vinny podcast and they brought up that in the not altogether faraway year of 2001/2002 WWE was actively pushing racist stereotypes while trying to pretend to be self-aware about how racist they were, which actually made it worse because it meant they were knowingly being racist. WWE's MO has pretty much always been to take all of its flaws, criticisms, and problems, package them up, put them on TV, and then do a stage play about them without actually changing anything. Everyone thinks Vince is a piece of poo poo so he's a piece of poo poo on TV for faces to beat up. Everyone thinks WWE is racist so they have the heels be racist and the faces can win and get beat up. Really the biggest change from then and now is that Vince is the only audience now so you get things like everyone thinks WWE is an abusive work place... so the heels complain about it being an abusive workplace.
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Oct 22, 2020 22:21
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They've laid off of it more recently, but I wrote about another trope that Vince loved regarding race earlier in my rewatch of the year: I wanted to explain this next one a little bit, as the larger racist aspect of the story is not what was being said by the characters, but rather in the construction of the story. WWE seems to have a trope in which they like to have an "incorrectly" angry black person or persons being mad at the man (see NOD for a more frequently referenced case) while there's a hard working non-complaining black person who doesn't blame anything on racism (see Ahmed) to show how one should act because racism never held down anyone in the WWE. Those characters sometimes say some racist poo poo to get across the point, but the more insidious aspect is the implication that someone who complains about racism must be a heel and must be incorrect. (Kofi's push towards the Mania where he won the title was interesting, in this respect, in that they seemed to very lightly and briefly apply both tropes by actually having Vince actually hold him down without giving any rationale while his friends complained (while stopping short of actually saying that it was a racial thing), but he persevered without complaining. They obviously weren't comfortable with being explicit about things in 2019, like they had been in the past, so it ended up very muddled, so that, while they ended up in the right place, they took many weird turns to get there. It was great to see him win the title, but I recall that I was far from the only one that was worried that they were going to turn the story into yet another clusterfuck.) They seem to be doing another one of these in 2003 with DLO and Teddy Long: 9/17/03 Raw: "Why are there no black superheroes? Oh by the way, there was one, his name was Black Lightning, but of course nobody never heard of him. Now you got Superman, nice white boy, he can fly, man of steel, he's even got x ray vision, but what did black lightning do, shoot lightning bolts out his rear end, what kind of power is that, that's real nice, that's a real dignified superpower" - Teddy Long "Dlo brown is already a black superhero by overcoming the adversity put upon him by the man. Tonight Dlo will let the Hurricane know what i means to be down with the brown" -Teddy Long collocation fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Feb 24, 2021 |
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Oct 22, 2020 23:11
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CZW 9/13/03 Redefined: "John Zandig has been nothing more than a hardcore homosexual" - Messiah
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Oct 24, 2020 14:35
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collocation posted:CZW 9/13/03 Redefined: Yeah there's a ton of this in early CZW and ROH and it's just horrible
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Oct 25, 2020 03:14
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collocation posted:Smackdown 09/11/03: Much of Cena's rapping days were terrible, in retrospect. Homophobia, mocking the disabled, prison rape jokes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl8CrbJwZ2k
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Oct 26, 2020 01:37
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Animal-Mother posted:Much of Cena's rapping days were terrible, in retrospect. Homophobia, mocking the disabled, prison rape jokes. Fur sure. He's the one who inspired me to start a thread quoting people. I was like "wait, wtf? Cena is rappin' about the holocaust?" 1/16/03 Smackdown "Since when did the meadowlands became a place for Mexicans, go back to home depot and become one of their hired hands" "I'll keep you starvin' like concentration camps, go back to freeways and sellin' oranges on off ramps" - John Cena collocation fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Feb 24, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2020 07:54
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I don't know why I spent so long watching the WWE. Company actively hated me as a person for the crime of being Mexican, but I still spent the money.
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Oct 26, 2020 10:59
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I used to watch wrestling with my (black) best friend as a pre-teen while his sister babysat us. After Saba Simba debuted, I was at least aware enough as a fairly white kid that I should not request it be put on at his house. Yet, I continued to watch for most of the next 13 or so years. When one enjoys something, quitting because it is "wrong" or offensive isn't always the easiest or most obvious thing to do, especially when young. As an adult who loves literature, including classic literature, I know that almost every book that I read by an author from before the 70's (at least) is going to be written by someone who believed some hosed up poo poo. I just try to avoid paying people who are alive and actively doing harm, whether it involves bootlegging their work or getting it from the library. It's a half measure, but I feel like it's better than nothing at all, even if only barely. ----- ROH 9/20/03 Glory By Honor II: "It's like people always trying to shut me up because I always have so many poignant things to say. They tried to do the same thing to Martin Luther King, they tried to do the same thing to Gloria Steinem and the woman's movement, they tried to do the same thing to Huey P Newton, but he started the Black Panthers. Alls I'm doin' is getting my fair shake. I'm starting my straight edge revolution." - CM Punk
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Oct 26, 2020 16:21
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collocation posted:Booker v. HHH stuff Honestly, it's not so much the racism that's the biggest issue, but that the racist won, therefore proving him right. And not only did he win, he did the Pedigree, had a nap, watched all 3 Godfather movies, had another nap, and then slowly crawled over to Booker and pinned him. gently caress OFF.
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Oct 27, 2020 08:17
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Vagabundo posted:Honestly, it's not so much the racism that's the biggest issue, but that the racist won, therefore proving him right. And not only did he win, he did the Pedigree, had a nap, watched all 3 Godfather movies, had another nap, and then slowly crawled over to Booker and pinned him. gently caress OFF. It also stands out because Vince's defining thing (and possibly what got him to beat all his rivals in the end) used to be building around babyfaces winning all the time as opposed to building around heels and then having the babyface finally win.
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Oct 27, 2020 09:57
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Vagabundo posted:Honestly, it's not so much the racism that's the biggest issue, but that the racist won, therefore proving him right. And not only did he win, he did the Pedigree, had a nap, watched all 3 Godfather movies, had another nap, and then slowly crawled over to Booker and pinned him. gently caress OFF. I mostly agree. I've read and watched a fair amount of fiction that had racist characters. The problem with WWE is that they don't have the trust, the skill, or the desire to tell that story in a decent way. If AEW tried, I would be wary, but I would at least give them a chance, even if I would prefer that they skip it. When WWE does a racial angle, I just expect that it's going to go badly.
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Oct 27, 2020 12:19
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A lot of people who write wrestling forget that at the end of the day it's a story about two people standing in a ring and fighting in a sport. If you can't resolve your conflict with those actions it's a bad conflict for the medium of pro-wrestling. Which isn't to say you can't tell a good story with it. I personally think the Golden Lover's reunion is one of the best love stories I've seen in any medium. But it worked in wrestling because all of the conflicts could be solved by Kenny Omega and Kota Ibushi either fighting each other or fighting together against other people. Also Vince is really loving racist and just a warped person in general so even when WWE does try to do a controversial story where the conflict can be solved by fighting in a ring they still gently caress it up. Usually by thinking the worst character is the one you're supposed to want to see win or be sympathetic to. Vince thinks nice people are a bunch of suckers and it shows in the product.
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Oct 27, 2020 22:26
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Man I bet Goldust has a war and peace coles note sized list - One of the worst Owen moments I have is when he started an F chant at Goldust - I'm sure he was told to do it because he didn't seem like the type but then again he is a Hart, and they know heat (and it was the terrible 90's). Then there was also that promo where Vince was talking about kidnapping Undertakers wife and kids and raping her in front of them or something, it was disgusting and I never want to rewatch it e: thanks for making the thread - I tapped out of wrestling right around 2000~ until AJ styles rumble return; so I missed all that Cena stuff  He's my childhood hero and I never knew he said that 
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Oct 28, 2020 03:35
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rare Magic card l00k posted:It also stands out because Vince's defining thing (and possibly what got him to beat all his rivals in the end) used to be building around babyfaces winning all the time as opposed to building around heels and then having the babyface finally win. It did coincide with HHH's dollar-store Flair run in the early 2000s, but yeah, gently caress me, that was backwards booking. collocation posted:I mostly agree. I've read and watched a fair amount of fiction that had racist characters. The problem with WWE is that they don't have the trust, the skill, or the desire to tell that story in a decent way. If AEW tried, I would be wary, but I would at least give them a chance, even if I would prefer that they skip it. When WWE does a racial angle, I just expect that it's going to go badly. Yeah, seriously. It could have been done so much better, and in a way that doesn't leave such a bitter taste afterwards. HHH manages to land a Pedigree, but he's too knackered to immediately get a pin, allowing Booker to kick out at 2.5 or whatever. That way HHH's pweshus, pweshus ego is protected, because he would've had the guy beat, right? Gotta keep him strong! Booker then spin-a-roonies, lands the Book End or whatever his finisher was at the time, pins HHH and is new WHC. Yay. He spends the next few months fending off HHH and Evolution, maybe with the help of a few babyfaces who've got an axe to grind against them to even the odds like RVD and Nash. Goldberg is brought into the title picture, and wins the title at SummerSlam in the Elimination Chamber.
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Oct 28, 2020 10:30
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NWA TNA 63 9/24/03: "Come on out here and get your rear end busted out and not the way you're used to getting it busted out by Simon Diamond" - Konnan to Disco
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Oct 28, 2020 17:18
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Smackdown 10/02/03: "I like burritos, I like tacos, I like enchiladas, but I don't like you" - Big Show to The Guerreros
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Oct 30, 2020 23:19
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGjSRsjbaOc
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Oct 31, 2020 00:04
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collocation posted:Smackdown 10/02/03: Doesn't Brock Lesnar also end up hiring a Mariachi band to mock Eddie? Or was that Cena? I just remember thinking even as a kid that thought MLK ended racism forever that it seemed wrong.
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Oct 31, 2020 00:56
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   "HAH HAH! Here is a hat, and dance, and style of music from your culture! You have been mocked! I win!" Vince McMahon's particular brand of racism doesn't even make sense, racistically.
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Oct 31, 2020 01:17
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http://wrestlecrap.com/inductions/induction-titofiesta/ one of the weirdest things McMahons done to me.
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Oct 31, 2020 01:21
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Was Mexican food really that unknown in any part of America in the '80s? I know my dad had never had Chinese food until he went to Georgia in '89 or so, but Mexican food? If there's one good part about this thread it's that I'm vindicated in having go-away heat for Lesnar and Cena from what I saw in '03.
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Oct 31, 2020 02:56
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22 Eargesplitten posted:Was Mexican food really that unknown in any part of America in the '80s? I know my dad had never had Chinese food until he went to Georgia in '89 or so, but Mexican food? I dunno everything about the biography of Vince, but I could easily see him living in a bubble like that.
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Oct 31, 2020 03:53
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22 Eargesplitten posted:Was Mexican food really that unknown in any part of America in the '80s? I know my dad had never had Chinese food until he went to Georgia in '89 or so, but Mexican food? https://twitter.com/kthorjensen/status/769551560628068352
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Oct 31, 2020 07:02
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Smackdown 10/02/03: "All these other cats, all they do is ruin the mood. It's like making out with a hot chick and finding out she's a dude." - John Cena
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Oct 31, 2020 18:43
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John Cena was a Bad Bad Man
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Nov 1, 2020 06:09
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