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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > At what age do humans get free will?
 
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Mata
Dec 23, 2003

Izzhov posted:

the idea of a dog not chasing a ball you throw, or in any other way disobeying an instinct, just because it's "choosing" to is utterly alien and bizarre.
I don't really follow, surely the dog makes a choice to either chase the ball or not?
As for the baby probably not, I guess it doesn't really have the capacity to weigh both options (crying vs not crying) until its senses have developed to the point where it can create a mental model of the world that includes the baby itself.

* # ¿ Oct 23, 2020 16:05
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# ¿ May 14, 2024 05:34
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Mata
Dec 23, 2003

Izzhov posted:

My intuition tells me that whether a dog chases a ball or not is entirely determined by instinct -- that is to say, whether the "chase ball" subroutine in its evolutionary programming is activated by the throwing stimulus. Like if it didn't chase the ball, that would mean there was some extenuating circumstance suppressing that subroutine, such as that it just ate I guess? I'm no zoologist.

This seems to imply that free will is contingent on understanding/mental capacity. Does this mean that free will is a sliding scale rather than a binary, and the "amount" of free will a person has is determined by their ability to conceptualize the world and their place in it?
Free will is surely contingent on understanding and mental capacity, at least the minimum threshold here being the ability to identify atleast two distinct alternatives, evaluating them, then performing an action based on that. Like most things in biology I'd say it comes with a sliding scale where you can argue about where to place some things, but it seems obvious to me atleast that the dog possesses free will - every dog has a sufficiently rich inner world to be self aware, as well as be aware of you - the ball thrower - and they also model your perception of them, their perception of you perceiving them, and that all whole infinite regress from which consciousness emerges.

I can certainly buy into the idea that neither humans or dogs have free will, and depending on where you look for it this seems like the obvious conclusion. but the idea that humans have it and dogs don't raises my hackles. This idea is usually trotted out to justify mistreatment of our fellow conscious beings.

Like when dogs do it it's "extenuating circumstance suppressing a subroutine", but when humans do it it's making a choice. These both appear to mean the same thing but the former is expressed in terms that make it sound like some computer algorithm whose components are fully understood.

Mata fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Oct 23, 2020

* # ¿ Oct 23, 2020 17:16
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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > At what age do humans get free will?