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Agrikk posted:There are some good viewpoints here and I admit to being of mixed mind. I suggest pricing out existing classic cars as well, they are not cheap at this point if you want one that isn't rusted, and I assume a bay area car isn't going to have any rust. Add the maintenance records that you said there are, that's even more value if all the maintenance was done at proper intervals. It has been modified over the years, so you don't have to worry about getting indecision about ruining the collectors value of a stock car. You sound like you talked with your uncle enough about the car that you would know if it had been in any accidents, how far back do Carfax records go? I would think there wouldn't be a lot of records for muscle cars getting in accidents in the '70s-'80s. I feel like knowing the history of a car is a good way to avoid nasty surprises that you really don't want to deal with on your first big project. Your idea of getting a mechanic to look at it is probably a good one, it also gives you time to sleep on it. My reaction is still "yes, do it" but it's not my money and I'm a sentimental type, if I had a relative I was close to with a car that I liked and they passed away, I'd jump at the opportunity to have a car that reminded me of them.
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Dec 8, 2020 07:01
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22 Eargesplitten posted:I suggest pricing out existing classic cars as well, they are not cheap at this point if you want one that isn't rusted, and I assume a bay area car isn't going to have any rust. Add the maintenance records that you said there are, that's even more value if all the maintenance was done at proper intervals. It has been modified over the years, so you don't have to worry about getting indecision about ruining the collectors value of a stock car. You sound like you talked with your uncle enough about the car that you would know if it had been in any accidents, how far back do Carfax records go? I would think there wouldn't be a lot of records for muscle cars getting in accidents in the '70s-'80s. I feel like knowing the history of a car is a good way to avoid nasty surprises that you really don't want to deal with on your first big project. Carfax records usually don't cover cars that are pre '81 with their non standard VINs. But I'd say it doesn't matter that much, old unibody cars like Torino's are fairly easy to inspect and see if there has been crash damage, the frame rails will have visible kinks or bulges near where they are welded the main body, and similar hotspots would be where the wheel wells are spot welded to the inner trunk, and measure parked on a flat surface with a laser measuring tool down from the front frame rails to see if there is some evidence of twisting. I wouldn't be worried over much about minor crash damage on these cars though as their suspension is pretty tolerant of minor variations. Agrikk posted:A new wrinkle in the proceedings: The door sag, if there is much of a sag, would almost certainly be caused by the hinge pins as the original design was poor and if any is there it's fairly easy to correct. As for gaps, the Factory at the time would have been using a 5/16th tolerance and most Cars in era were no where close to perfectly gapped, to the extent that many concours events will mark down cars with perfect gapping as being non-original. And rather than try and see twist from a photograph, which can be deceptive, if this guy occasionally does crash repair ask if he has a tram bar set and wouldn't mind hanging them from the datum points and checking the alignment or sit on a Car-o-lina if he has one. (you can probably obtain a diagram for this online or he may have a shop (or factory manual) for that year which contains them in the body book or a Chilton's or Motors books from that particular year.) Given what you've said about ownership of the car though it's likely you won't find major alignment issues as a result of crash damage or over torque as a stockish 302 won't be generating anywhere near enough torque to twist a Torino into a pretzel. Mostly, I'd be looking at rust on the frame rails, torque boxes and foot wells in the floor pans, and the bottoms of the doors as these are the typical places where the rust is found. Rusted Torque boxes would be the worst to repair as they are a total bitch to remove and replace, floor pans and the stub frame rails are simple enough. Doors, you can repair though I'd just replace them unless it is very minor. Ed. Motor and Transmission can be swapped easily enough or rebuilt and 302s are fairly cheap, so I wouldn't be seeing them as major showstoppers to worry about. Ser Pounce fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Dec 8, 2020 |
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Dec 8, 2020 15:46
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I think the new family dynamics angle means you should pass on it.
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Dec 8, 2020 17:10
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Getting someone who knows their stuff to look at it is definitely a good move. I think if i were in this situation I might be tempted to offer them a very firm $1000 and state that they can take this $1000 off you or sell it themselves. This should keep your aunt happy because they get some money and it is a sensible price for an unknown car project
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Dec 8, 2020 17:17
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Got some pics of the car from my aunt:      
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Dec 10, 2020 00:21
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That's... probably well worth the $4k.
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Dec 10, 2020 00:58
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Our prices are boned here, but that would be a $10-15k car here running.
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Dec 10, 2020 01:00
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That's not a '73, that's a '70. I'd buy it for $4k. Edit: poo poo, and you already knew that. I'd still buy it for 4. Boaz MacPhereson fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Dec 10, 2020 |
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Dec 10, 2020 01:54
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I would do dirty things for that car. I would do dirty things with that car. That said, I bought a 65 comet because it looked cool at the time, with plans and fixing it up. As it turns out, it was a gigantic turd I was in way over my head. It sat in my yard for three and a half years until I had a car crash that scared me away from cars without airbags or seat belts. But even before that, I realized that my heart wasn't in it. Yes I could fix it up theoretically, but it's not exactly something I wanted my whole life. I wanted a project car, but quickly realized it was far more than I was capable of, or could afford. In my case in particular, I would be spending 30k to build a 20k car. there's a difference between getting a project car and getting the right project car. Every case is different, I can't advise you one way or the other. What I will say is I will totally understand either way if you do end up with it or ultimately pass. E: I still have a spreadsheet with all of the parts I would have thrown at it if I had the money, most of them are 65 falcon/mustang (if you do get this, expect to buy a lot of mustang parts), most of them probably won't interchange with yours but might point you in the right direction of things to look for. As Nero Danced fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Dec 10, 2020 |
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Dec 10, 2020 02:03
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Boaz MacPhereson posted:That's not a '73, that's a '70. I'd buy it for $4k. Yeah I was under the impression it was a later model too, looks in pretty good condition and worth more than 4k for sure. Great candidate for a Torino GT clone
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Dec 10, 2020 04:39
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Jumping on the buy it/I would buy it for $4k band wagon.
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Dec 10, 2020 06:17
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Man what a rollercoaster this thread was. I expected to see some rust bucket with moss and poo poo, but that looks clean and nice? Without knowing anything about prices for these in the US, I'd say that it sucks that you didn't get it for free, but $4k will at least go toward something good. Or your could "meet in the middle" with your cousin and the aunt and pay a bit less, but both of them get part of their wishes. Who actually owns the car (maybe you said and I missed that part)?
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Dec 10, 2020 09:47
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Agrikk, there's a lot going on here, but this is the general idea: A car that has been garaged and looks that nice, coupled with knowing it's been in California its entire life, is very unlikely to have severe hidden problems. It's always possible, but our collective guts are telling us that this is not a rustbucket, it's what we call a "survivor" in that your uncle took good care of it. It should be a car that requires minimal work to get it reliable enough to take to car shows and get complements, and it'd be one that you could enjoy while improving it rather than it just sitting in your garage hoping for "someday". Obviously an inspection would rule out any doubt, but this is likely a car worth at least $10k just from those pictures. It's too bad you didn't jump on it right away before the financial issues entered, because if we'd have seen all those pics in the OP you would have had unanimous encouragement to get it and get it immediately. You have some decisions to make. edit: I think your cousin's early statements about "barely made it in to the garage" are hilarious because it comes from a lack of understanding and detachment about older cars, and assumptions that anything old is a POS. They were also misleading. Cars of this age are a lot more finicky than modern cars, and can be a little harder to start, might cough and die when cold, etc. But that was all normal for cars back then, and it doesn't mean they're unreliable, it means you have to get to know the car's quirks. Cars like this are a lot more affected by sitting and not being driven, too. Fuel evaporates out of the carburetor, things get sticky, contacts corrode, and things like that. Bottom line, do not be dissuaded. I bet this car runs fine, and probably great when warmed up. LloydDobler fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Dec 10, 2020 |
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Dec 10, 2020 13:31
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That torino fucks, A+, would hoon. I'd swap the wheels to soft 8s though. That car would absolutely sell for $4k if afterwards you decide its not for you, so you'd be somewhat safe going for it and really only be out the cost of the parts.
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Dec 10, 2020 14:06
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Holy poo poo. That's a beautiful car. I change my mind, $4k would be a good price for it, even if it's not currently running. More than likely the carb is gunked up from sitting, and the fuel pump is probably rotten (they're cam-driven on those and have a rubber diaphragm - when they leak, they dump gas into the oil). Fuel pumps are dirt cheap and easy to swap on those engines (IIRC 2 bolts and the 2 lines). Fresh gas, a fuel pump, a carb rebuild, and a battery should at least get it running decently. It may not even need a carb rebuild to get it running, may need to feather the gas a bit to keep it running until it warms up depending on the condition of the carb. LloydDobler posted:Cars of this age are a lot more finicky than modern cars, and can be a little harder to start, might cough and die when cold, etc. But that was all normal for cars back then, and it doesn't mean they're unreliable, it means you have to get to know the car's quirks. Cars like this are a lot more affected by sitting and not being driven, too. Fuel evaporates out of the carburetor, things get sticky, contacts corrode, and things like that. Bottom line, do not be dissuaded. I bet this car runs fine, and probably great when warmed up. This. Also, the points could be out of adjustment or worn, which won't help. Converting to electronic ignition is pretty trivial - Pertronix has several kits out that replace the points and condenser and do worlds for reliability. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Dec 10, 2020 |
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Dec 10, 2020 14:13
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I would buy that car and I live on the other side of the world
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Dec 10, 2020 23:45
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Elmnt80 posted:I'd swap the wheels to soft 8s though. I'd ID those wheels first, I can't tell from the resolution, but those center caps could actually be real center locks.
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Dec 11, 2020 00:20
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You Am I posted:I would buy that car and I live on the other side of the world  I normally just lurk AI threads and when I saw this and that they wanted you to pay for it I was like "no way" but those pictures, you should say yes!
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Dec 11, 2020 02:22
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My cousin went into surgery a couple of hours ago. Without getting too deep into it there may be an issue with their insurance coverage and, like was mentioned upthread, I'm in a position to pay the $4000 for the car. I've been dreading this surgery for my cousin and thinking about this car has been giving me a lot of joy. Being able to help them out a little bit makes it all the better. Fingers crossed and prayers up high that she comes through this okay, and afterwards I can give her some cash to help out.
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Dec 11, 2020 02:30
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Rock n roll, you're in for a hell of a ride. Hope she comes through ok.
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Dec 11, 2020 03:00
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Agrikk posted:My cousin went into surgery a couple of hours ago. Without getting too deep into it there may be an issue with their insurance coverage and, like was mentioned upthread, I'm in a position to pay the $4000 for the car. I've been dreading this surgery for my cousin and thinking about this car has been giving me a lot of joy. Being able to help them out a little bit makes it all the better. I hope she's ok. I don't know Torinos at all, but that looks to be in fantastic shape and I think it's easily worth $4,000. I bet you could get it running well, drive it, and if you don't really like it I'm pretty certain you could list it on BaT/recoup your costs/donate extra back to your cousin if you were feeling that way. Look forward to updates!
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Dec 11, 2020 03:17
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STR posted:Holy poo poo. That's a beautiful car. This tbh ^^ The pump diaphragms almost always rot if they are left standing for more than a couple of months, though for ignition I'd probably look at moving to a Ford Duraspark II setup from a '77+ 302 block which is a little more expensive but doesn't in my experience tend to burn out so often as Pertronix units do, and just about any repair shop you might visit in a pinch will know what it is and how to diagnose/repair. Agrikk posted:My cousin went into surgery a couple of hours ago. Without getting too deep into it there may be an issue with their insurance coverage and, like was mentioned upthread, I'm in a position to pay the $4000 for the car. I've been dreading this surgery for my cousin and thinking about this car has been giving me a lot of joy. Being able to help them out a little bit makes it all the better. Here's hoping all's well for her, and you get to ride that Torino feeling righteous.
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Dec 11, 2020 10:27
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With nothing else todo while I wait for the results of my cousin’s surgery, I tracked down the renter who had been living in my aunt’s house and had taken these pictures. It turns out that the car was running poorly because someone had told my aunt to add some fuel additive to the car because it had been standing for so long, so she added an entire bottle of some stuff to the tank which was maybe 1/8 full. The poor car was burning fuel additive and belching red exhaust apparently. So the guy filled the tank with gas to dilute the solution, adjusted the jets and put in a new battery and it now runs “good”. So that’s something. I also contacted a local speed shop who apparently does a lot of work modernizing and upgrading 60’s and 70’s -era cars to talk about what it would take to give this car a set of upgrades to make it that much more fun to drive. It was a fun conversation that generated a list of tends if thousands of dollars of upgrades, but the cool part is none of it is critical to the daily running of the car so I could do them as desire and finances allow. Apparently my uncle was a fastidious record keeper because There’s also a six inch stack of paperwork representing everything my uncle ever did to the car, so that should be fun to see the history of the car. I’m feeling exited about this car, like it really could happen. But it also feel weird to be “Hey cuz and aunt, let’s talk about the car while you all are dealing with a life-threatening illness.”
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Dec 11, 2020 16:26
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Ser Pounce posted:This tbh ^^ How easy is it to get Duraspark II modules these days? My 1980 F-150 had it, and surprisingly made it on an OEM module until 1996, when it just died with no warning while driving down the road. Wouldn't start until it cooled off, then died once the engine bay got hot again. Funny thing is, I remember seeing places to mount two modules - I assume the factory knew you'd want to carry a spare.  The parts store ones poo poo out every few months, but I did live in the desert at the time (110+ degree days were common), the parts store ones weren't built nearly as well as the original Ford unit. And I beat on that thing like I stole it, with all 130 screaming HP out of that 351M. I don't know if "any" shop would know how to diagnose Duraspark II, let alone a carb - you'd need to find a greybeard. But it's definitely a lot more elegant than going with a Pertronix. And yeah... those fuel pumps really don't like sitting. They'll still run with the diaphragm leaking, but they'll dilute the poo poo out of your oil with gas. How much do those pumps go for now anyway? I remember them being something like $15 back when I had my F-150 (.... 1990s). Agrikk posted:It turns out that the car was running poorly because someone had told my aunt to add some fuel additive to the car because it had been standing for so long, so she added an entire bottle of some stuff to the tank which was maybe 1/8 full. I hope everything goes well with your cousin's surgery. It sounds like the car will be pretty solid once you dust off the spiderwebs and take care of typical "car's been sitting awhile" issues. Expect it to start leaking a good bit of oil from almost every gasket, the gaskets tend to dry up and rot out when they sit a long time. Plus at least an oil change (if it smells a lot like gas, you need a fuel pump). Red smoke is pretty hilarious though. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Dec 11, 2020 |
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Dec 11, 2020 16:43
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Agrikk posted:I’m feeling exited about this car, like it really could happen. But it also feel weird to be “Hey cuz and aunt, let’s talk about the car while you all are dealing with a life-threatening illness.” Yeah I wouldn't press them on it, let them come to you when they're ready, doesn't sound like it's going anywhere so just be patient.
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Dec 11, 2020 18:16
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Agrikk posted:Apparently my uncle was a fastidious record keeper because There’s also a six inch stack of paperwork representing everything my uncle ever did to the car, so that should be fun to see the history of the car. Keep these records and treat them like they're important. Documented knowledge of its history adds value to the car.
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Dec 11, 2020 19:06
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STR posted:How easy is it to get Duraspark II modules these days? My 1980 F-150 had it, and surprisingly made it on an OEM module until 1996, when it just died with no warning while driving down the road. Wouldn't start until it cooled off, then died once the engine bay got hot again. Funny thing is, I remember seeing places to mount two modules - I assume the factory knew you'd want to carry a spare. The crackerbox parts store versions are of variable quality, no telling if you'll get one that will last or just die randomly after a few thousand miles, it's getting to the point where nos versions are getting scarce too, I think I paid $110 for one off ebay a year or so back, though that was a Duraspark I for a Cleveland (California only model from the mid 70s, hotter spark, better for high compression builds). Well worth getting the older ones, even junkyard specials, as they do genuinely last and work well. (Maybe I ought start recommending MSD kit these days  )And you are probably right about the greybeards, I keep forgetting how much grey is in my beard these days and yup all the younger mechanics in the workshops around mine come to me for anything carb related, I was even asked to rebuild a carb from an old Standard 8 fairly recently, (turns out not having fuel filters of any kind lets small granules of metal and rust from the tank and fuel pump into the carb choking it off, who'd have thought it?). Mechanical pumps are still cheap as chips unless you want something out of the ordinary, as is pretty much any daily/oe pattern part for the SBF/SBC and Co. I tend to treat them as consumables. And a 351M eh? I nearly bought one of those a couple of years ago, planned on stroking it and dropping it in my Mustang, as once you go beyond the stock poo poo that they came with.... Though in the end I decided to go down the route of rebuilding an ancient Cleveland I had sitting around (decided to build a Boss 351 engine), which down to me being too busy with other people's cars has only just gone to the machine shop a couple of weeks back.
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Dec 13, 2020 00:36
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If you have a place to store it out of the elements and a few hours after work or during the weekend to wrench I'd absolutely pay the 4k for it. Hell, I might pay 5k for it because it's seriously heartbreaking that your cousin has cancer and with the state of U.S. healthcare, they'll probably need the extra cash. I can't personally take on projects like these because of Apartment Life and chronic Not-enough-free-time-itis but if my situation were different, I'd love to have an old car like this. Old cars are like a blank canvas waiting for your imagination (and wallet) to run wild on it. But modern junkyard parts and fabrication can do wonders. Again, I'm really sorry about your cousin's cancer. 
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Dec 13, 2020 03:10
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Ser Pounce posted:And a 351M eh? I nearly bought one of those a couple of years ago, planned on stroking it and dropping it in my Mustang, as once you go beyond the stock poo poo that they came with.... Though in the end I decided to go down the route of rebuilding an ancient Cleveland I had sitting around (decided to build a Boss 351 engine), which down to me being too busy with other people's cars has only just gone to the machine shop a couple of weeks back. There's absolutely no point to building a 351M/400M. They're the definition of smog-era engines. Insanely low compression, no horses (though some torque), very limited parts availability even back in the day. SOME Windsor/Cleveland parts can be used, but it's been so long that I have no idea what can swap anymore. I think it's mostly cam and manifolds, not much else? The 351M is just a destroked 400 anyway. The Cleveland will be easier to find parts for, and cost a lot less to build. Unlike say, an Olds 307, where there's a bit of value in staying with a BOP engine (and still some aftermarket support), there's no point to keeping a M engine unless you're going for a concourse restoration.
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Dec 15, 2020 21:39
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Why was I always thinking it was some Green rusty shitbox that had boxes stacked on top of it for 25 years? Just give them the $4k! Rollercoaster indeed!!!
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Dec 16, 2020 04:22
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I have the cash ready to go, but obviously my aunt and cousin have bigger fish to fry (and stomachs to mend). Right now I’m just stressed that my aunt will sell the car out from under me while I jump up and down on the sidelines waving a stack of hundreds saying “take my money!”
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Dec 16, 2020 05:14
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seeing it isnt a malaise-era car in that condition id be doing backflips all the way to my aunt's house if i had the cash tbh
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Dec 16, 2020 05:46
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Agrikk posted:I have the cash ready to go, but obviously my aunt and cousin have bigger fish to fry (and stomachs to mend). if she doesnt have time to sell it to you how is she gonna have time to sell it to some rando
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Dec 16, 2020 13:50
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:if she doesnt have time to sell it to you how is she gonna have time to sell it to some rando I imagine he's probably worried about someone offering more for it the longer it sits around
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Dec 16, 2020 16:25
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Applebees Appetizer posted:I imagine he's probably worried about someone offering more for it the longer it sits around isn't it in the garage? who's going to come along and find it?
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Dec 16, 2020 16:27
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Me
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Dec 16, 2020 18:05
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Have you made it clear that you'll buy it and have the money ready for whenever they're feeling strong enough to deal with the paperwork? Make your intent clear if you're serious, you'll stress less and they'll at least know money is incoming.
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Dec 16, 2020 18:08
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:isn't it in the garage? who's going to come along and find it? Cars like that tend to get sold by word of mouth, so if the family has put it out there that they have a classic car for sale people will come knocking. If they haven't said anything tho he shouldn't have to worry about it
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Dec 16, 2020 18:10
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Beautiful!
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Dec 16, 2020 20:33
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STR posted:There's absolutely no point to building a 351M/400M. They're the definition of smog-era engines. Insanely low compression, no horses (though some torque), very limited parts availability even back in the day. SOME Windsor/Cleveland parts can be used, but it's been so long that I have no idea what can swap anymore. I think it's mostly cam and manifolds, not much else? That certainly was true and as built they really are useless smog mills with poo poo fuel economy, but you should google Tim Meyer on the 351M/400, he's been building big numbers from them for years as they really are just a big block version of the Cleveland that never got any factory performance parts. With adapter plates they can run Cleveland intake manifolds and they can run with any of the Cleveland heads, Iron 4v CC or modern Aluminum High compression and with a Stroker Crank, high lift cam and some modern con rods and flat top pistons added you get a 500hp plus big block that generates over 600ft/lbs NA. Something that would sit pretty in any Grand Torino Over the years I've ended up with 3 sets of factory Iron heads for the 351c sat on shelf, including a pair of ported Boss 351 4v CC heads, also a good '72 CJ crank and an old school Shelby intake (far cheaper than an Aluminum Boss intake and greater potential), and my intention is mainly cruising and the occasional burst of high speed hijinx so it made sense in the end to refurb and modify (oil system fixes) the old Cleveland CJ block I had. When finished it should be somewhere around 400-450 horses and redline at 8k, so will still be nicely streetable and wont need a stage 3 puck clutch or drag radials. Agrikk posted:I have the cash ready to go, but obviously my aunt and cousin have bigger fish to fry (and stomachs to mend). I don't think she will, I think that car is yours, I'd say reach out now as now is when the cash is needed to help that stomach mend by reducing any immediate financial worries. (then later when you've had time to enjoy that sweet ride and can afford it, stroke that 302 to 347 and really bring that Torino to life  )
Ser Pounce fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Dec 17, 2020 |
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Dec 17, 2020 04:28
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