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V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

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VictualSquid posted:

I would say that "makerspaces" are the most socialist thing to evolve from the techbro movement.

There are many appliances that are collectively operated by modern apartment buildings. In my region those are heating, satelite dishes and clothes driers.
And I do think that 3D printers could be operated at the same level, and so should paper printers.

What is stopping that is capitalist individualization and landlords.

On the other hand the soviets tried to collectivise kitchens in the name of efficiency and communality and nobody enjoyed the results.

programming is shockingly collective in practice, stack overflow and the entire open source movement are extremely encouraging as a completely practical example of communistic organising

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V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

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Doc Hawkins posted:

i agree that people do and would write code without being paid for it, but open source is absolutely subsumed by capital, free software is a footnote, and the effort to train more programmers is motivated to reduce the value and power of current programmers, not out of passionate belief in the unachieved liberatory possibilities of personal computing.

this seems to be talking about something else than i, at least, was thinking about, which is the willingness to put poo poo up for grabs for whoever - there's a titanic array of libraries, advice and code bases available to any idiot with a compiler and an internet connection, which is genuinely excellent stuff

i do not believe it to be possible to run a non-capitalist enterprise under capitalism; someone will always find a way to extract value, especially from the commons. it's still a genuine marvel that the commons exist and persist like they do

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

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'to be is to do' said hegel
'to do is to be' said marx
'dobedobedoo' said sinatra

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

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if history is fundamentally driven by class struggle, it does stand to reason that history stops as a grand process once the motor is shut down

fukuyama is basically satirising marx by way of hegel in his text, but he's wrong because he reverts to idealism, I.e puts hegel back on his head

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

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kautsky's great moment of betrayal was in supporting germany's government in the great war and arguing for war funding etc. it's always a horrific thing to reflect upon, but the zimmerwald 'authoritarian' left were the only ones with a sane attitude towards the war. what became the social democratic tendencies of europe proved their loyalties there when push came to shove, like they've consistently done since

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

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whenever lenin writes about these people after the outbreak of war there's a strong feeling of very personal betrayal - just from a literary standpoint it's very interesting how he imbues these texts which should be extremely dry with so much emotion and nerve

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

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or, you know, macron

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

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NovemberMike posted:

That's the point, you can't come up with these percentages. Historical materialism is a lens for viewing the world, and it's only useful when it lets you say interesting things. You can only really say interesting things if the base dominates the superstructure, otherwise the lens doesn't provide any real clarity. Keep in mind that the whole "base vs superstructure" thing is artificial, you have to figure out why it's a useful distinction that's worth using.


You've just thrown away most of dialectical materialism in favor of masturbation then. The whole point is that it's capable of making strong predictions about the future, that's the whole thing about the contradictions in capitalism inevitably leading to its collapse. That's a prediction that you can make because you have identified a contradiction in the base that will be the antithesis to capitalism. If you pull back and just say that the base and superstructure are two things with no special relationship and you've just identified them so you can talk about them then you lose the predictive parts of historical materialism and you start just saying obvious things.

one of the strengths of marxian doctrine is imo that it's resistant to vulgar formalism like trying to affix percentages to concepts that are not coherently disentangible

it is a meaningful - though these days rather obvious - statement to make that cultural phenomena are fundamentally constrained by circumstance. if you look at e.g. the size of families, this seems rather clear - where you have educated women and a relatively high level of social security, family sizes drop dramatically. this makes sense; bearing lots of children is dangerous and often unpleasant, but there is a strong biological urge to reproduce nonetheless

it seems obviously bizarre to start trying to apply a variance analysis to something like family size where you have to assume that there's some proportion of it which exists outside of the influence of material circumstance - which doesn't make sense at all!

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

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marx's original accounting of the law of the tendency of the rate of profit to fall dies indeed not account for innovation in the sense of creating entire new categories of commodity such as happened with computers, nor does it really account for stuff like massive destruction of capital through giant wars. such new categories are rare, though, and the general rate of profit quickly reasserts itself in practice as one may see by the increasingly desperate behaviour of investors in the latter age, with money being thrown into obviously fraudulent companies based on what appears to be a psychological estimate that enough other people will be fooled

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

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most normal inventions will have the effect of decreasing the rate of profit, remember. if i invented a machine that could generate pencils from air, that would realistically flood the pencil market and drive pencil profits into the grave, especially once the patent expired

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

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bernstein (and kautsky) voted for the war credits in 1914. he supported the war when it mattered; only liebknecht broke collective discipline on that vote, meaning that only what would later become the sparakist bund and from there the KPD was credibly anti-war. the USPD was always a temporary coalition between the zimmerwald left and the two-and-a-half internationalists and could only exist in the context of a disastrous total war; once that was over, it immediately splintered into murderous rivalries

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

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he did join a united front against the war in 1915 or 1916 to be fair

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V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

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ronya posted:

emphasis on time structure of investment in productive capital is a very austrian take; if you poke around in those corners you'll find more

usually when we speak of a market society however, we don't mean specifically the money market, but markets in general, especially commodity markets - 'in buying food we worry about taste and cost, not marriage alliances or the need not to alienate our grocer lest he not stand with us in the next feud', to quote CR Shalizi's paraphrase of Gellner. The social revolution is in the devaluation of non-market social relations, like reciprocity or allegiances. Polanyi, Gellner, James C. Scott, etc.

conversely, production on expected future remuneration itself long predates modernism. Nanni bought shoddy copper from Ea-nasir on credit.

ea-nasir!!!!! :argh:

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