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Dumper Humper posted:Joe Biden was an architect of the Iraq war While his vote and initial support for the Iraq War has been (and should be) roundly criticized, I object to the term "architect" as A) that implies the motherfuckers who were making decisions about the war had any actual plans for the invasion and occupation beyond "topple saddam, prove we can knock over whatever dictator we want, get fat oil contracts, GTFO," and B) it lets the people like Paul Wolfowitz and Donald Rumsfeld who were the driving forces towards getting us into Iraq off easy, when instead their names should be in every American textbook and also headlining war crimes tribunals, treason trials, and burning effigies in the town square of every american city. Anyway I'd say I'm at a 5 or 6, cautiously optimistic, ready to be disappointed, but also deeply relieved the current administration is at an end.
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Nov 8, 2020 04:43
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Marx Was A Lib posted:How? protest, call your representatives, support various progressive organizations that are able to put pressure on Congress, there's a ton you can do. The democratic process doesn't stop just because the election is over.
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Nov 8, 2020 17:43
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Some Guy TT posted:Have you ever considered the possibility there might be a connection between the fact that Paul Wolfowitz and Donald Rumseld are not listed as war criminals in American texbooks and the equally true fact that the guy who was their point man in the Senate became the standard bearer for the opposition party some twenty years later? ... No, because that sounds like the ravings of an insane person, rather than my preferred take that life is grueling and disappointing, and that people in power who do bad things are rarely held accountable for a wide variety of reasons. also it's weird to refer to Biden as "their point man in the Senate," because he wasn't. He gave a speech in support of the initial resolution in 2002, but he wasn't even a co-sponsor of the Senate resolutions. you can criticize a man and believe him to be an awful human being without believing them to be the source of all evil in the world, you know.
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Nov 9, 2020 04:40
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Some Guy TT posted:He was the ranking member of the foreign relations committee, and in fact chaired it for most of the runup to the war. Who exactly do you think would be the more accurate person to describe as their point man in the senate? ...Any of the actual Republicans in leadership during that time, such as Majority Leader Trent Lott (R-MS), Majority Whip Mitch McConnell (R-KY), or Republican Party Conference leader Rick Santorum (R-PA)? Or even Minority Leader Tom Daschle (D-ND) or Joe Lieberman (D-CT), who sponsored the Senate versions of the AUMF resolution. Actually you know what if you really want to go with a democrat let's go with Lieberman, dude was still saying there were WMDs in Iraq and he didn't regret his vote for war as late as 2011.
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Nov 9, 2020 05:02
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I'll admit that I had not remembered the specifics in Biden's role in pushing the AUMF through the Senate, which is probably because I was about 9 when the hearings were occurring and I wasn't quite as tuned in to politics as I am now 
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Nov 9, 2020 05:19
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Dixon Chisholm posted:That didn't stop you from defending him. Mostly because regardless of his actions in the Senate, to describe him as an architect of the war is still deeply wrong in comparison to the actions of Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Franks, etc.
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Nov 9, 2020 05:48
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