How excited are you about a Joe Biden presidency?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > How excited are you about a Joe Biden presidency?

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Majorian posted:

5, because I am excited to see if his inability to tackle the manifold crises the country faces will further along a true left opposition, radicalize more people, spur mutual aid/dual power, etc. I actually am optimistic that this will be easier under Biden than Trump, simply because a lot of people need to be shown that the Democrats are not, as an institution, there to help them.

That said, it's gonna be a rough road ahead. The Senate GOP will ensure that very little of value gets done, and Biden's record is one of austerity policies at home and interventions abroad. I'm glad Trump's gone, but Biden/Harris is probably gonna suuuuuuuck.

The Democrats are going to show their entire rear end here but I guarantee you 99.9% of the people who voted for Biden either are going to be scared back into line to vote for his worthless rear end again when Tucker Carlson brings Ernst Rohm back to life and the GOP nominates him in 2024 or they're going to look at the stock market and their own net worth and see Number Going Up and shrug rather than going all-in on mutual aid, dual power, and making the mental shift to electoralism as a second effort if that. Add in continuing to blame Mitch McConnell for everything that Biden doesn't do and you've got a complete set of ear plugs to ignore all the poo poo that's broken that the dems don't want to fix, and a few token executive orders (maybe forgiving* college debt) to point at will seal that deal for more people. "Not as bad as x!" is good enough for people whose lives haven't been shattered yet and who have no class consciousness to see how deep the bad goes and how little the branding of the rich assholes in charge changes the overall trajectory.

That said, materials conditions are collapsing and the dems are totally unable to conceive of doing anything about that. Politics doesn't radicalize that 99.9% of people, being made homeless or being permanently injured at your poo poo gig job or beaten by the cops will. That's only going to happen to more and more people over the next few years, so radical political and parapolitical movements are only going to get bigger.

What I think might radicalize people ahead of the usual schedule (ie, when they're contemplating or experiencing being personally immiserated because Joe Biden doesn't give a gently caress whether they live or die) is seeing how the Trump/MAGA phenomenon doesn't die down after Biden takes office and how little our security apparatus is going to do about it as long as they're just beating, spitting on, or harassing targeted minorities. People think that poo poo is over once he's not in the White House, ignoring that his personal brand and platform and the Fox/OAN platforms are ever-present and won't stop pushing his message, people see him getting dunked on by Twitter and don't see Parler topping the app store charts, etc. Ground-level violence by the right is only going to increase from now on, and when it becomes apparent that the cops are not going to intervene in that as it ratchets up, that's going to crack some pings.

Overall though, excited to buy beans and give them to people without beans. Our bean-giving traditions must be built up while some of us can still access beans freely.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2020 09:35

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# ¿ May 11, 2024 16:36

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

punk rebel ecks posted:

With the sole exception of California, all states have 99%+ of their votes in.

Popular vote wise the difference will be at most a bit over 3% (a competitive presidential race), electorally the difference was won by 100,000 votes (skin of their teeth). It was a nail-biting election no matter how you look at it.

Also in a year when they ran against a deeply unpopular incumbent, they lost House seats. Don't ever let anyone tell you that Joe Biden wasn't a dead-rear end micron from handing Trump another four years.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2020 17:45

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Glass of Milk posted:

5-7, depending on two main things:

A. Biden's patience with Republican intransigence. I don't think he's as loving stubborn as Obama was with his dedication to bipartisanship, so once the Republicans show their true colors, he will be okay with proceeding alone.

quote:

If you hear people on the rope line saying, �I'm a Republican,� I say, �Stay a Republican.� Vote for me but stay a Republican, because we need a Republican Party."

# ¿ Nov 9, 2020 17:47

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

StratGoatCom posted:

Look on the bright side, you get to at the biden fans as they have nothing done for them.

You should know by now that the majority of Biden voters are going to point at the usual table scraps and scream that this is better than Trump.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2020 18:10

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

pat_b posted:

Tara Reade has to see her rapist in the white house now. Feel pretty bad for her. I guess it's better than all the women trump raped that had to see him up there bloviating? Progress?

As long as the Democrat raped 1 less woman than the Republican, you're a monster for not voting Democratic.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2020 19:18

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

sexpig by night posted:

it's so loving funny that Reid, who sucked in a lot of ways himself, was our last dem leader with a backbone and balls, and he had to spend most of his last years in the senate pulling Joe away from the cliff he kept eagerly trying to jump off.

It's really weird that I actually miss the machine Democrats of yesteryear who were lovely but at least not brainpoisoned by bipartisanship decorum brainworms like all of the Obama-adjacent people seem to be. Like, come on, how can you not miss this guy a little

quote:

Reid served as chairman of the Nevada Gaming Commission from 1977 to 1981. When Jack Gordon, La Toya Jackson's future agent and husband, offered Reid a $12,000 bribe to get approval of new games for casinos, Reid brought in the FBI to tape Gordon's bribery attempt and arrest him. After FBI agents interrupted the transaction, as prearranged, Reid lost his temper and attempted to choke Gordon, saying "You son of a bitch, you tried to bribe me!" before agents stopped him. Gordon was convicted in 1979 and sentenced to six months in prison. In 1981, Reid's wife found a bomb attached to the family station wagon;[2][10][11] Reid suspected it was placed by Gordon, although this has never been proven in a court of law.[3]

LMAO

# ¿ Nov 9, 2020 19:54

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

OwlFancier posted:

I think it is understandable if people are a little skeptical of the guy who worked for the last administration coming out in favour of bipartisanship when the last administration was demolished by it and the democrats in opposition have been in favour of it and also the party is saying "gently caress the left" a lot.

Like, in context the idea that they suddenly hate bipartisanship now, that now it seems untenable in a way it did not beforehand, seems like the bigger reach. As, I think, is the idea it was ever predicated on rationality to begin with, rather than being something they believe in ideologically.

And again, the Democrats had to keep Joe Biden out of the room to prevent him giving away the farm to Republicans in Senate negotiations. Joe Biden's not some master strategic operator! He's the guy who trades his cow for loving magic beans!

# ¿ Nov 9, 2020 20:31

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Cheesus posted:

I'm not surprised.

Is there any kind of evidence that he was "just" doing what his boss wanted?

I always had the impression that Obama was the one who insisted at stating any negotiation at its mid-point instead of "all of what I want". Biden really contributed to that?

Well he was doing it when he was a Senator and never stopped.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2020 21:08

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Still Dismal posted:

Again, if you believe the polls that say Trump�s popularity fell due to COVID, then you can�t ignore the ones that
showed him as losing to basically any democrat before COVID. You can�t have it both ways, either the polls were reliable or they weren�t.

Hi, I'm correlated errors

# ¿ Nov 9, 2020 22:04

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Seven Hundred Bee posted:

We also now have evidence that COVID helped Trump - both because it helped activate a segment of the population for him (QAnon) and because people liked that they got a check for him and judge the economy by "how much money I have in my hand and who gave it to me" and not unemployment numbers.

quote:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Americans are steadily losing confidence in President Donald Trump�s handling of the coronavirus pandemic, with his net approval on the issue that has dominated the U.S. election hitting a record low in a new Reuters/Ipsos poll.

The poll taken Tuesday through Thursday, after Trump�s COVID-19 infection and weekend hospitalization, found 37% of American adults approved of the president�s handling of the pandemic and 59% disapproved.

The net approval rating of negative 22 percentage points is the lowest in the poll dating back to March 2 and has steadily declined over the last 10 days, as Trump�s illness and his return to work in the White House dominated news headlines.

Trump�s rating on the issue was negative 11 points in a Reuters/Ipsos poll taken Sept. 30-Oct. 1.

I mean, you can believe whatever you want.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2020 22:45

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Glass of Milk posted:

And so we press him now and hold him accountable if he doesn't. But going in with abject defeatism from the get go seems pretty loving stupid.

OwlFancier posted:

The question of how you hold him accountable other than by not voting for him arises.

So Glass of Milk if he puts a bunch of Republicans in his cabinet and presses an austerity budget while a few million Americans end up in the street and the concentration camps stay open, will you commit right now to hold him accountable by not voting for him or Kamala Harris in 2024 regardless of what kind of shambling Lovecraftian horror the GOP nominates?

# ¿ Nov 9, 2020 23:34

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Sarcastro posted:

The question of how this logic leads to anything other than accelerationism arises.

Is there a number of bodies, caged children, raped women, and immiserated poor people on the "good" trolley track where you start rejecting the premise of the trolley problem framing of this issue, or is it just infinite tolerance and voting for Hitler But One Less Person Killed is thoroughly correct to you?

# ¿ Nov 9, 2020 23:37

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Seven Hundred Bee posted:

I think the idea of "holding them accountable" is a larger proxy for "what does progressive activism look outside of voting in general elections?"

That sounds like answering the question, "You voted for this monster, how are you going to hold him accountable for doing monstrous poo poo?" with "I'm going to get someone who wants to fund the busses elected to my local city council!"

You can make an argument that a realpolitik assessment of the general is that a vote for Biden was a necessary evil as a holding action against fascism and that better things are possible through local electoralism to influence the national party's future policy platform. I disagree with that given how eagerly he enables and empowers regressives, but fine. But the idea of holding the current incoming president accountable for anything he does or has done is a joke. He's never been held accountable for anything in his life and never will be. He's going to kill have people - probably including Americans - extrajudicially executed as CiC and there's nothing we can do to hold him accountable for that even if the majority of Americans wanted to. The general election is the only accountability mechanism our entire system provides short of impeachment.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2020 00:12

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

The Artificial Kid posted:

This �it�s always the most perilous election ever, we are always told we have to just vote for the democrat� narrative got a lot of play here during this campaign, but I don�t think it�s true. I don�t remember it being that way with McCain or Romney. It wasn�t even that way with Dubya�s first term, only after 9/11 and his response was he truly demonised. Before that he was treated more as a sign of America�s stupidity than America�s evil.

I�m sure the next republican candidates will benefit to a frightening degree from a sense of normality and decorum relative to Trump, and people may get their wish that Biden or Harris not be elected because they�re �just another Democrat� and �both sides are the same�.

Hunter S. Thompson - Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail '72 posted:

�How many more of these stinking, double-downer sideshows will we have to go through before we can get ourselves straight enough to put together some kind of national election that will give me and the at least 20 million people I tend to agree with a chance to vote FOR something, instead of always being faced with that old familiar choice between the lesser of two evils?�

Same poo poo different bucket. I was told in my first Presidential election ever that if I didn't vote for Al Gore, I'd be drafted and would come to regret my heretical questioning of the Democrats when I bled out in the desert.

Ed: just to clarify, yes, this was before 9/11. I was told the same poo poo but louder and angrier and by more people in 2004.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2020 04:03

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Bodyholes posted:

Imagine thinking Bill Clinton was better than modern democrats in any way.

Remind me how many American citizens Bill Clinton publicly had assassinated with airstrikes again

# ¿ Nov 10, 2020 07:32

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

quote:

Amy Klobuchar considered for Biden Cabinet posts including attorney general and Agriculture secretary
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/10/biden-cabinet-amy-klobuchar-considered-for-attorney-general-usda-chief.html

Broke: we can't make Klob the VP because she let killer cops go!
Woke: we can make Klob the AG because she let killer cops go!

# ¿ Nov 10, 2020 19:18

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Majorian posted:

I strongly doubt they'll do that for the reasons you mention here, particularly since Jones is the obvious choice. But still, yuck. At this point, if people want to argue that Biden will make police reform a priority, the burden of proof is on them. (I say that without my IK hat on; that's just my personal belief as a poster)

I've got a dollar on Klob because the "she was unfairly criticized _{for letting killer cops go} BECAUSE SHE'S A WOMAN" narrative on blue MAGA twitter was really hot for a while, she's done no worse than Kamala, and making her AG would be a solid first step in following the Kasich Plan For Democrats, but even vetting her is a sign that they don't take stopping cop murder as a priority in any way.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2020 19:33

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Cicero posted:

I don't get going from Senator to Secretary being seen as a promotion. Seems like a sidegrade to me.

It's probably worth mentioning that just because they're thinking of someone for a position and vetting them for it doesn't mean they'll take it.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2020 21:40

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

We got names ya'll https://buildbackbetter.com/the-transition/agency-review-teams/

# ¿ Nov 10, 2020 22:24

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Wicked Them Beats posted:

Funny you should mention that!
Prop 22s all around!

We want our unions* to be stronger than ever! Build back better!

*Offer not valid if under the age of 40

# ¿ Nov 11, 2020 00:11

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Majorian posted:

Everyone who knows even a little bit about the subject of Democratic health care initiatives can see it's a slightly-over-the-top caricature of means-testing. Saying that Kamala Harris is TERF, on the other hand, is A, probably inaccurate, and B, distracts from the real problem with her, which is that her horrible record w/r/t trans inmates is part of a broader pattern of her throwing vulnerable groups under the bus for her own political advantage.

I agree. Kamala Harris doesn't hate trans women. She fundamentally lacks any respect for human life in general.

Here is some fact-based support for that position (I see you GJB)

quote:

Harris cheerfully recounts the story of sending an attorney from her office to intimidate a homeless single mother whose children were missing school. She smiles as she recalls how she instructed her subordinates to �look really mean� so that the mother would take the threat of jail seriously.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/31/kamala-harris-laughed-jailing-parents-truancy

Kamala Harris laughed while recounting that great anecdote about the time she sent city attorneys to threaten a homeless woman with jail because she couldn't keep her kids in school. A human that respects the life and fundamental dignity of another human would not laugh at the memory of threatening a poverty-stricken, desperate woman with jail for failing to raise her children according to state-imposed standards without any support.

The Oldest Man fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Nov 11, 2020

# ¿ Nov 11, 2020 20:08

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

RBA Starblade posted:

I'll be honest, all the NoJoes wailing that it's the end of the world Biden won and Trump didn't

Can you quote a NoJoe wailing that Trump didn't win while posting this, or is that too high a bar to clear before you make something up for sick dunks.

# ¿ Nov 11, 2020 20:22

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Ytlaya posted:

While it remains to be seen how things will end up, I think they might just be replaced by people defending Biden doing terrible things, which isn't really preferable to defending the anti-Trump neocons.

If he gives Kasich a cabinet post "defending Biden doing terrible things" and "defending anti-Trump neo-cons" do the fusion dance.

# ¿ Nov 11, 2020 22:16

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# ¿ May 11, 2024 16:36

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

More rumor and analysis and posturing but lmao at the idea this isn't coming and Biden was going to be pushed left rather than push the left off a cliff

quote:

Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders to be frozen out of Biden cabinet, report says

Left-wing politicians Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are reportedly set to be frozen out of president-elect Joe Biden's cabinet amid concerns the party could lose more seats in upcoming elections.

Democrats clung onto their House majority but lost five seats while Republicans picked up six and secured their majority in the Senate, barring a major upset in Georgia's runoff election.

Each side of the party is blaming the other for the poor results, which came after four years of White House chaos under Donald Trump. Left-wing Democrats say the party's offer on progressive causes was not strong enough.

Meanwhile, centrist Democrats say the left's 'socialist' messaging puts off Americans living outside big cities and urban areas.

Anger has been fomenting within the party in recent days and centrist Democrats say that with Mitch McConnell remaining as Senate majority leader, the party can not afford to appoint figures viewed as socialists.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...obox=1605114085

# ¿ Nov 11, 2020 23:10

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