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The Artificial Kid posted:Are you talking about the authorisation of military force passed a week after 9/11, when people were calling for Afghanistan to be nuked, and claiming that it's the reason the Iraq war happened 18 months later after the Democrats had lost the senate? You realize that "_____ would have happened anyway, so you can't really blame someone for facilitating it" isn't really a convincing argument, right? Most evil things happen through spreading responsibility around such that most individuals can tell themselves "if it wasn't me, someone else would be doing it, so I can't be blamed." It is literally analogous to someone saying that a member of Nazi leadership isn't really responsible because the same things would have happened if they weren't there and most of the public supported them. The Artificial Kid posted:I didn't say he cares more about opinion polls than about doing the right thing, I said in a climate where most people supported the war, he gave his support to the war. It was easy for someone to convince themselves, at that moment, that the war was the right thing. In fact most people in America had. They were wrong, but they were convinced. This isn't even remotely an excuse, though, because Biden was in a position of power/leadership. You only hold this opinion because, on some level, you don't view the Iraq/Afghanistan wars for what they truly were. For whatever reason, you don't file them in the same mental category as other war crimes and atrocities, which leads to holding opinions that you would otherwise recognize as ridiculous and morally contemptible if they were applied to the leadership of other countries that commit atrocities.
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Nov 9, 2020 06:17
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The thing that really puts the lie to the idea that there's a non-zero chance of Biden making things better for the poor/working class is to simply look at what happens in firmly blue states, like California. The Democrats have absolutely zero interest in being a pro-labor party (or a pro-"anything good" party for that matter; even their support for social issues is nearly all superficial). Prop 22 is basically a preview of the sort of future they would prefer for all of the American working class.
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Nov 11, 2020 02:19
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Bernie's Gonna Win is pointless fluff, and the bulk of the information it communicates is not actually the literal meaning of the words, but if it wasn't clogging up the thread overly I ignored it during primary season. The other three would obviously generate reports, angryposts, and a general reduction in forums experience quality. All four are probateable, but some are more probateable than others. The problem is that you're trying to find some objective standard to apply to something that is ultimately a matter of ideology/values. For example, it's very obvious that the "I'm looking forward to the left making progress under Biden!" posts are equally inflammatory to the "angrily mocking means testing" ones. I would go as far as arguing that posts like the ones you quoted are often in response to the optimistic ones - they're essentially the result of the former posts "making people angry." The same goes for some of the positive posts, which are obviously made with the knowledge that it'll upset the "NoJoes" and in response to their posts. Basically there's a subjective rhetorical distinction between what is inflammatory (and how inflammatory it is) that doesn't actually correspond to the reality of how inflammatory they are or aren't. As you correctly mentioned yourself, this thread is essentially guaranteed to be inherently inflammatory, and IMO you're just going to make people more angry by attempting to limit "posts that make other people mad" in such a thread. Fister Roboto posted:One thing I'm optimistic for with Biden is the disappearance of "wow, this archconservative ghoul called Trump a doodoo head (because he's doing fascism wrong), what a hero, welcome to the #resistance" kind of idiocy. Hopefully. While it remains to be seen how things will end up, I think they might just be replaced by people defending Biden doing terrible things, which isn't really preferable to defending the anti-Trump neocons.
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Nov 11, 2020 21:57
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:- Alphabet agencies going after far-right groups like the III%ers and Proud Boys. This one is kind of a mixed bag because I have to imagine that if this does become a winning political strategy (and I have to imagine it will be because it'll be very popular with the base) it's going to flip (back) to Antifa/BLM when the reaction comes. Yeah, not only will this sort of thing be used as an excuse to go after "radical left" groups, but it also creates the illusion that the "far right" is primarily characterized by these fringe groups. It really can't be understated how nuts it is that people freak out about the Proud Boys in a country where ICE and our policing/prison systems are a thing. It's a symptom of the fact that most people have internalized the "normalcy" of those things. Even if they might think that they're bad, they don't really think of them in the same way they think of other crimes/atrocities. In general it is very frightening how much liberals have thrown their support behind the CIA/FBI in response to Trump.
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Nov 12, 2020 08:26
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