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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Progressive Movement and the American Left
 
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Doktor Avalanche
Dec 30, 2008

Sharks Eat Bear posted:

Maybe I’m oversimplifying, but I think if you can’t recognize shared near-term goals despite long-term ideological differences, then it’s going to be really hard to translate theory into practice?

I don’t see how there’s more to gain by putting yourself on an island and putting progressives and reactionaries on the same team, that just feels like it’s rigging the game against yourself under the pretense of ideological superiority. I think the reality in the US is that the overwhelming majority of people don’t give a poo poo about ideology.

Or if you think the better route for the American left is to let the dominant forces of conservative and reactionary capitalism continue towards the precipice of its own collapse, then I can understand the aversion to lumping in e.g. Nordic model capitalists with state socialists under a bigger umbrella of progressivism. But that seems like a hell of a gambit to me, given how advanced and entrenched the Military Industrial Complex has become especially in the past 20 years...

the whole point is that there are no shared near-term goals except the vague "let's be nice to each other" bullshit
it's been 40 years since reagan's election, 16 of those under a democratic president - how's it going so far?
it's not leftists who are putting progressives and reactionaries on the same team, it's progressives themselves who gleefully jump into reactionaries' arms the moment they get elected

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Doktor Avalanche
Dec 30, 2008

Sharks Eat Bear posted:

Are M4A and the GND not shared near term goals? Honest question. My extreme oversimplification would be:

Progressives (with socialist ideology): in favor
Progressives (with Nordic capitalist ideology): in favor
Conservatives (mainstream Dems): opposed
Reactionaries (GOP): opposed

Isn’t that a case where there’s a shared near term goal within a progressive coalition that cuts across ideology? Does the shittiness of mainstream Dems (ie conservatives) really justify abandoning such an intuitively good label as progressivism?

ah, I thought you were talking about the dems, cause in their case it's not a shared goal at all

* # ¿ Nov 14, 2020 09:56
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Doktor Avalanche
Dec 30, 2008

 look, the social democrats you talk about (nordic capitalists) are a tiny group in politics, and leftists are an even smaller one
I mean bernie's a socdem and he got crushed (twice!) even when he had the support of both socdems and lefties
so it doesn't seem like the coalition you're talking about can do much

* # ¿ Nov 14, 2020 10:01
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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Progressive Movement and the American Left