|
 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10048342/ I was impressed enough with this series to feel it merited its own thread. It is in my opinion the best original Netflix content so far. The source material is the novel of the same name by Walter Tevis. It's a drama about Elizabeth Harmon, an orphan who discovers a fascination with chess. It turns out that she's a chess prodigy, and her career progresses from small local tournaments to the heights of international competition. Along the way there is drama related to her alcohol and drug issues as well as her relationships with the various men in her life, most of whom mentor her chess career in different ways but are ultimately surpassed by her. The film is set in the early 1960's Cold War era and Harmon's opponents in the climactic events are fictional Soviet Grandmasters. There are many references to actual historic masters and champions of the chess world, but Harmon herself and the actual characters portrayed in the film are fictitious. Harmon's character is almost a fictional reimagining of a Bobby Fischer like character, a brilliant chess child prodigy who emerges into prominence during the Cold War but is also burdened with a lot of baggage and a turbulent personal life. Harmon is played by Anya Taylor-Joy, previously known for The VVitch, Thoroughbreds and Emma. It is a standout performance. One of the things that really struck me is how well written and complex almost all of the characters in the film are. For instance, the mother who adopts her from the orphanage could easily have been a shallow caricature of a boozy failure of a suburban housewife but her character and her relationship with Beth are drawn with detail and care. The nerdy brotherhood of tournament chess players with its colorful characters and hierarchy of merit is captured pretty well. It's a very small world and not only do the big names know each other not only through published games but also personally, but the second and third tier personalities usually have a personal connection as well. This is portrayed well in how some of the chess nerds Beth meets from her very first events are encountered again and again at different events throughout her career. The various tournament chess scene characters like Harry (the Kentucky state champ who is Beth's first big competitive scalp), Benny (the eccentric U.S. champ), and the Levy brothers (friendly chess nerds and hangers on) seem very familiar to anyone familiar with tournament chess or really any insular hobby or sport. The series is a period piece, it's beautifully shot and the early 60's wardrobe, costume and soundtrack are spot on. Of many excellent scenes, one that stood out to me is at the Mexico City tournament when Beth first runs up against the top Russian Grandmasters. She is in the back of the elevator when their team enters, and unaware of her presence (and the fact that she speaks Russian), the world champ doesn't discount her chances, saying "she is an orphan. She is like us, a survivor. Without victory, what will her life be?" At the same event, her match against the even younger Russian child prodigy is a great illustration of the predator's circle of life in chess. The world champion is at the peak of his abilities but soon to be in decline against younger opponents, and he recognizes and acknowledges this. Beth, a teenager, is already too old in the cruel math of chess to be regarded as a child prodigy anymore but is still just on the threshold of realizing her full potential. The Russian child represents the next generation of talent that will eventually overtake Beth when her abilities decline.  As a casual chess player I was a bit sad that the show didn't linger a bit more on some of the chess boards. Also the pace of the game was sped up for dramatic effect which I also understand, and the fact that a huge portion of competitive games among top players end in draws is glossed over, but all of these departures from realism are for good reason and effect. Special praise to Isla Johnston who plays the young Beth Harmon in the orphanage. She really nails the scenes where Beth first becomes fascinated by chess watching the old janitor play in the basement (who then becomes her first teacher and mentor). Really captures the single mindedness of a child who suddenly discovers and becomes obsessed with something very well.
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2020 16:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 15:03 |
|
|
One other comment I’ll make. For those put off by the fact that the orphanage setting in the first episode is a bit grim dank and depressing I would strongly advise you to stick with it. It’s an excellent episode anyway and absolutely integral to everything that follows.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2020 19:51
|
|
|
I've seen a lot of the promos and talk about this, but it didn't really grab me. Then I saw this:Zwabu posted:The source material is the novel of the same name by Walter Tevis. When I was younger I read The Steps of the Sun and always thought it was a great scifi novel, it really stuck with me. Mockingbird is good too. If he wrote the original story for this I'll have to check it out. I also knew he wrote The Man Who Fell to Earth but didn't realize he wrote The Hustler and Color of Money. It's rare to see an author switch well between scifi and other genres.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2020 03:30
|
|
|
Astroman posted:I also knew he wrote The Man Who Fell to Earth but didn't realize he wrote The Hustler and Color of Money. It's rare to see an author switch well between scifi and other genres. Interesting. Maybe the competition elements common to chess and pool hall hustling are fascinating to him.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2020 03:54
|
|
|
I skipped over this a few times before a tweet made me check out the first episode, and I'm really glad I did. There's several points you go "Oh, it's just (trope) again" but they usually find a way to avoid lazy writing decisions. lots of good decisions made overall.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2020 04:00
|
|
|
Zwabu posted:
This guy made a really great video series, analyzing the boards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSKwEfa9Ug0 Apparently most of those games are based on real ones. Many of those by Gary Kasparov, who was a consultant on the show. Apparently, except for one or two blunders the actual chess is top notch. Absolutely the best chess in any pop culture deciption. I had a lot of fun actually setting up some those games on lichess and figuring out why my chess intuition to do something different would lead to crushing failures. The final game is really cool and matches the stakes. I had a bit trouble finishing the first episode, because I don't like children, but once Anya Taylor-Joy gets to play, it's a great and gorgeous show. cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Nov 18, 2020 |
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2020 09:28
|
|
|
Could you go into why draws happen a lot in top-tier competitive chess? The only time it's offered in the show it feels like the person at a clear disadvantage is offering it to avoid a loss and I couldn't figure out why anyone would take them up on it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2020 09:58
|
|
|
The examples in the show were really silly Begging for a draw, when you are mate in one is absolutely pathetic. But draws tend to occur in certain situations where both players don't blunder. Most often it comes due to the rule where you can't repeat the same position three times. But if that is the optimal move for either player, one has to decide to either draw, or playing something less than optimal, which might lead to a total loss. Then there are regular endgame draws, because there are no moves, or mates left. A less direct situation would be a late game where the king is in a strong fortress, while the attacker basically has no choice but to attack it, while all defences are obvious. There might be a lot of different angles for an attack so repeating three times would take a while. If it's noticeable that this just won't go anywhere, experts would draw, because the silly alternative would be to play as fast as possible and hope the opponents time runs out first. Of course that might happen if there's less than 30 seconds left. Amateur players end up drawing way less often, because in those games there are a lot more mistakes or downright blunders which tilt a balanced game. Needlessly losing a single pawn, can be enough for that. Also, in tournaments and consecutive games there are draws which basically preserve the total points. If at some particularly even point of the game one player sort of fears that he might lose the game in 60% of the cases while he suspects that the other player would feel just as pessimistic, offering a draw would be preferable fron both perspectives because they get a chance of 1 to get half a point, rather than a chance of 0.4 to get a whole one. If it's the end of the tournament and there's only a 0.5 point difference between those final players, the leader would happily offer a draw, rather than risking the absolute loss. cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 11:04 on Nov 18, 2020 |
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2020 10:54
|
|
|
It was a good series and I definitely enjoyed it. But it's a show completely carried by Anya Taylor-Joy. The actual story and plot is just a giant cliché. Here is this person who finds out they have a talent as a kid... Here is this person rising to the top of the skill... Oh look they have drug and alcohol problems... Hey they overcame it. Amazing!
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2020 12:18
|
|
|
Just binged it. I didn't know jack poo poo about chess going into it and know probably somehow even less going out of it and it doesn't matter because the main actress is magnetic in a way you rarely see.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2020 12:58
|
|
|
I think one of the main issues I have with the show is the fact Beth is portrayed as dominating all of her games so thoroughly, with virtually no losses or draws (with a couple of notable exceptions). It's unusual for even the very best players to be so head and shoulders above their competition as to crush through events beating everyone, I think Bobby Fischer's career was kind of like that, not sure about more recent champs like Carlsen or Kasparov.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2020 16:58
|
|
|
cant cook creole bream posted:The examples in the show were really silly Cool, thanks. I'll be honest (finale spoilers) I briefly hoped that Borgov was offering a draw because he was prepared to win decisively (since they talk up his endgame strength vs her opening speciality) but wanted to acknowledge her brilliance so far and give her that draw instead. But nope, he just loses like everyone else. oh well.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2020 17:56
|
|
|
This show is a lot better if you watch the first episode and then none of the others and pretend it was a really weird short movie where she dies at the end.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2020 19:15
|
|
|
I really enjoyed the character of the adoptive mother. She captures the feeling of being trapped in a relationship. At the end i felt like there was a missed opportunity for some kind of awesome LSD scene or arc, it is the 60’s after all. Maybe just territory Netflix would never touch?
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2020 19:43
|
|
|
After the first episode i thought it was going to be a superhero origin story, but it ended up being a classic sports movie. I liked it though, 7 episodes was perfect length.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2020 04:21
|
|
|
This series was really great, but I felt like the back half of it wasn't as strong after the mom died. As a former "child prodigy" of chess shows like this and Searching for Bobby Fisher always have a soft spot. I loved the use of classic chess matches sprinkled throughout, and oh my God the douche with the trench coat, there's always one of those guys at big tournaments, and usually multiple. Having him not playing in a tournament he deemed beneath him is a perfect introduction to the character.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2020 05:47
|
|
|
Med School posted:I really enjoyed the character of the adoptive mother. She captures the feeling of being trapped in a relationship. I didn't realize the actress was also a director. It was a pretty great, and complex, role. She could be a flawed foster mother without being a one dimensional stereotype, their relationship was complex but it was mostly a positive thing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2020 06:02
|
|
|
Grem posted:This series was really great, but I felt like the back half of it wasn't as strong after the mom died. Not having competed myself but having a friend or two in college who were GM/IM types the nerd brotherhood regulars at the tournament scene seemed like they were depicted pretty well. You could say it is somewhat true of any sport or hobby that has a small insular community, you could even get a little of that flavor from the people hanging around a big Starcraft tournament, perhaps. My main beefs were: Beth wins virtually everything, not only doesn't lose a game except for a couple notable incidents, but one gets the impression she doesn't even draw. The high number of draws in tournament play would probably be somewhat tedious though. Not sure if other world champs crushed everyone as thoroughly as she is portrayed as doing except maybe Fischer and/or Magnus Carlsen? Also, resolution of substance abuse issues seemed a bit too conveniently neat and tidy. It makes sense that after seeing Mr. Schaibel's bulletin board shrine that she could have been seriously motivated to clean up, to renew her dedication to chess as a way of respecting his dedication to her. But most people can't just drop years of heavy alcohol and pills cold turkey without some significant physical and emotional toll to be borne. Zwabu fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Nov 23, 2020 |
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2020 06:05
|
|
|
Not a chess prodigy but I am an addict in recovery and it’s unfortunate this has an extremely surface level depiction of a downward spiral, and none of it really feels earned or even that relevant to the plot. There were two scenes that really clued me into how clumsy the writing was. The first was after she and beltik had sex the first time, and were on the cusp of being a reasonably regular domestic couple, and then smash cut to her running into an old high school friend, who gives her a clear picture of housewifery in that era baby in a crib and all the second is when the parisian friend was introduced with a grocery bag with exactly 2 baguettes sticking out of it. She and Harmon have one conversation, and then she shows up to ruin beths chances in Paris, which everyone could see coming a million miles away. It was easier to introduce a throwaway character to trigger her than it was to show her self-sabotage in a meaningful way The sets and performances were great. I wish they could’ve written the matches to be dramatic in chess terms, instead of relying on reaction shots, clumsy broadcaster handholding or snappy montages. The entire Borgov match was just reaction shots of Russian crowds which was annoying. meanolmrcloud fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Nov 24, 2020 |
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2020 05:54
|
|
|
meanolmrcloud posted:The sets and performances were great. I wish they could’ve written the matches to be dramatic in chess terms, instead of relying on reaction shots, clumsy broadcaster handholding or snappy montages. The entire Borgov match was just reaction shots of Russian crowds which was annoying.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2020 13:49
|
|
|
I enjoyed the show overall for the acting and the aesthetics. It was a fun, quick watch. Though I never really felt like the stakes were all that high, and Beth was always just a little too capable. With the substance abuse I never felt she was in grave danger or had any deep withdrawal, when people died or she drove them away it didn't really set her back much, and when she wouldn't win a big match she could always pull it off later. It's a good character study, it looks great, and the rest of the characters are interesting, but someone always came through and everything always turned out OK, and I was never in any doubt that it would.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2020 07:26
|
|
|
I really enjoyed this. Even the super sappy last 20 minutes. One thing that I might have missed though: Is Townes gay? I was pretty tired when I watched these and I don't know if it was too subtle or I'm reading too much into it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2020 12:27
|
|
|
Jows posted:I really enjoyed this. Even the super sappy last 20 minutes. Yes.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2020 14:43
|
|
|
Ehh, I'd say that or bi. In the last episode he apologizes for not really knowing what he wanted, but it's ambiguous as to whether "what he wanted" was "men only" or "men and women but not Beth specifically." It's not obvious he's gay since, after all, he was about to kiss Beth, and making out with women is not typical behavior for gay men, especially those who have realized they are gay enough to already have a lover, etc.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2020 14:54
|
|
|
I also enjoyed this up to the point where the mom died, after which I felt it became very repetitive
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2020 17:13
|
|
|
Riptor posted:I also enjoyed this up to the point where the mom died, after which I felt it became very repetitive Yeah, I do feel that this stretch dragged a bit. Not having read the book, I understand that a big difference is that in the book, it's Beth who reaches out and contacts Jolene who then comes to help her, rather than Jolene simply showing up out of the blue to the rescue. I think it's an unfortunate change in the show because that's a pretty important distinction.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2020 18:43
|
|
|
Shallow and looked nice. The child version of the character was much more interesting than anything that followed. It did remind me of what a better movie "Searching for Bobby Fisher" was.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2020 16:41
|
|
|
I’m on episode 5 and I love it but can someone explain to me the timeline of this show. Because in Episode 2 when Beth first reads the Chess Review magazine to find out about the state tournament it’s clearly 1963 as the cover of Newsweek shows Kennedy and his Ich Ben Ein Berliner speech which was July 1963. Well in episode 5 when she reconnects with Beltic from the tournament it’s 1966 but they both say it’s been 5 years since they last saw each other. Besides that it’s kind of hard to even follow how much time has passed between the whirlwind of tournaments. Do we know what year was she adopted?
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 02:54
|
|
|
I watched it. But Searching for Bobby Fischer is a better chess movie. And, yeah, orphan turned prodigy is hardly original.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2020 05:21
|
|
|
Faithless posted:This show is a lot better if you watch the first episode and then none of the others and pretend it was a really weird short movie where she dies at the end. Agreed. I gave up after episode 5. The first episode is excellent, but the chess competition material is silly.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2020 08:52
|
|
|
I liked it, except near the end where Cleo ruins everything based on a promise of one drink.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2020 04:46
|
|
|
I enjoyed this, although as a weirdo nerd who actually likes chess and played a ton of it as a kid, I was really put off by how much they avoid the chess matches most of the time. Show me some loving chess moves! I want to see her be brilliant at chess I don't just want you to tell me about it over and over! Also the first couple episodes, the male characters that she beats at chess are such weird caricatures that it was awkward. I get that the time period is really oppressive and I even enjoyed that part of the story once things got going, but in the beginning it just felt really contrived and forced, nothing could be remotely subtle. Oh my biggest pet peeve was the hallucinations of chess on the ceiling. It just really felt like the creators were terrified that chess would be too boring so they had to juice it up a lot. The mother was great, as were a few of the guys, the Russian, and obviously the lead herself was mostly amazing. Withnail posted:I watched it. But Searching for Bobby Fischer is a better chess movie. Now that is a chess movie.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2020 08:40
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:I enjoyed this, although as a weirdo nerd who actually likes chess and played a ton of it as a kid, I was really put off by how much they avoid the chess matches most of the time. Yeah considering that they went through the trouble to get Kasparov and Pandolfini (former World Champ and a grandmaster) to be chess consultants and Kasparov actually picked and made up real games, it would have been nice if they actually, you know, showed the board for at least a tiny bit here and there. Instead of "she's crushing these guys, take our word for it"
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2020 09:08
|
|
|
Zwabu posted:Yeah considering that they went through the trouble to get Kasparov and Pandolfini (former World Champ and a grandmaster) to be chess consultants and Kasparov actually picked and made up real games, it would have been nice if they actually, you know, showed the board for at least a tiny bit here and there. Instead of "she's crushing these guys, take our word for it" The chess match in Mexico I swear they deliberately placed the camera so that you can see the players but not the board. You just see their arms moving. Its like they were afraid of showing the chess board and didn't want to put the effort in to make sure the boards weren't stupid, and yet with most of these matches being historic record you could pretty trivially just replay the moves exactly, or as you said they have chess consultants who are exceptionally capable and could have invented new games if needed. I guess there's also some pacing issues, they want to focus on the character story so can only spend so much time on the chess matches. But still, show me more of the board positions that actually matter. The show seems to assume you won't even try to follow it so they don't let you.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2020 09:36
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:The chess match in Mexico I swear they deliberately placed the camera so that you can see the players but not the board. You just see their arms moving. Maybe they were trying to avoid cheesiness like when Ralph Macchio pretended to play guitar in The Crossroads. They'd have to keep track of all the piece positions between takes and it sounds like a continuity nightmare.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2020 05:32
|
|
|
It would be nice if they'd linger a bit on the board on a critical move. I recognize that 99 percent of the viewers probably don't know anything about chess, but given that you got a world champ to pick out games for the key matches, it would be cool if they chose a particular brilliant move for the critical move in the match and at least tossed the chess nerds in the audience a bone once or twice. I totally get having the players move at more blitz/rapid like speeds for the sake of pacing. I actually like that the one game against the Russian kid phenom in Mexico City was the only one that had that ponderous slow stressful feeling of a difficult game, the kind where you lose a couple of pounds during the game, and went to adjournment.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2020 05:48
|
|
|
Sekhmnet posted:Maybe they were trying to avoid cheesiness like when Ralph Macchio pretended to play guitar in The Crossroads. They'd have to keep track of all the piece positions between takes and it sounds like a continuity nightmare. I watched a couple videos on a Youtube chess nerd channel analyzing the matches from the show, and apparently they actually did have all that match continuity, because the channel was able to follow the matches all the way through, and make educated guesses at what happened between the parts they didn't show.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2020 07:29
|
|
|
sticklefifer posted:I watched a couple videos on a Youtube chess nerd channel analyzing the matches from the show, and apparently they actually did have all that match continuity, because the channel was able to follow the matches all the way through, and make educated guesses at what happened between the parts they didn't show. They were able to follow it in real time? Or because they would freeze frame the show from time to time to be able to look at the board?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2020 07:30
|
|
|
Zwabu posted:They were able to follow it in real time? Or because they would freeze frame the show from time to time to be able to look at the board?
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 20:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 15:03 |
|
|
Zwabu posted:I didn't realize the actress was also a director. It was a pretty great, and complex, role. She could be a flawed foster mother without being a one dimensional stereotype, their relationship was complex but it was mostly a positive thing. I mentioned that to my wife after watching the series, it just feels really rare in TV and movies for a mother and daughter to have a peaceful, solid relationship. Not to mention a parent in a sports/game media to be supportive and caring but not overbearing while still being flawed..
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2020 01:16
|
|
