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Basebf555 posted:I'm undecided on The Dark Crystal vs. Ganja & Hess. They're both really good but also very different. Right now I'm leaning towards Ganja & Hess just because it feels like the deeper, more meaningful film, but at the same time those sets and puppets in The Dark Crystal are amazing works of art. I feel like I'm in the exact same boat with these two. I need to make time to rewatch The Dark Crystal this week.
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Aug 24, 2021 14:51
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I've been stressed this week so haven't been able to sit down with them. Hopefully tonight. I did do the other matchup. I like The Eater. Its held back by being a network TV episode. Its a bit too short and has some kind of abrupt awkward transitions and ending. It also doesn't have as much gore or violence as you expect from Gordon, but I'm ok with that. Gordon is obviously great at that stuff but personally I think having him at like 80% is probably where I'm most comfortable. Eater manages to be mean and gross without crossing lines for me or desensitizing with too much. I like it and I like Fear Itself/Masters of Horror. I'm still a little salty that Stuck knocked out one of my favorite teams (because I really hated Stuck) but I'm glad it resulted in people giving that dumb little show a look with a good episode. But I really do love Black Sabbath. I like enough that I watched it twice, the english version and the Italian. The english version has more fun KARLOFF intros which is really cool and I much preferred watching Karloff in english than dubbed. But it also completely changes the phone story to remove the giallo elements and turn it into a ghost story. And while I prefer supernatural to giallo 99% of the time I think that's a shame here because it completely changes Bava's intent, ruins the kind of sampler quality of the film, and entirely removes the lesbian subtext. On the flip side the US version opens with the actual ghost story which is definitely the weakest and ends with the Wurdalak which I think is the strongest. So that's the right order. The italian version kind of ends on a whimper. Also the italian version has Karloff intros that aren't in the english version, which is just odd. I kind of want to put together a mega cut of all the Karloff intros, the ghost story in either language, the italian phone segment, and then the English Wurdalak. Anyway the fact that I watched it twice and am thinking of making a fan edit I think says it all. I loved this movie before I knew who Bava was or had seen Frankenstein. The Wurdalak is a favorite story of mine that I think feels like its inspired a lot of future stuff. Giallo isn't my favorite but in a small dose like here I really enjoy it. Even the weaker ghost story is a perfectly fine anthology opener/palette cleanser. Bava feels like he's not quite spoken of in the way the other greats are and I think that's mostly because he doesn't have one style that develops a strong fanbase. He does a lot of different things and does them better than most anyone. Giallo, slasher, supernatural, gothic. So I love this sampler of his stuff giving you a little taste of everything. And its all done with Bava's real "style" which is incredibly rich visuals, wonderfully detailed set dressings, and top tier camera work.
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Aug 24, 2021 15:35
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Black sabbath is an actual movie so it wins easy over a slick TV episode imo. Not knocking eater, it's good at what it's doing and Gordon does his best to make it weird and gross. Black Sabbath is a classic full feature film though. I plan to watch ganja and hess then dark crystal on thursday.
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Aug 24, 2021 20:22
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Eater is like the perfect cinematic equivalent to reading a fun, pulpy horror short story. I kinda like the nihilist take on the abuse women face in the work place. Eater shows that aggression and abuse in the work place is not only an act of assault, but an act of self-destruction. Because of the gender imbalance at work, literally no one can succeed (or survive). Dark take, Gordon! I'm gonna rewatch Black Sabbath, cuz it rules. It's maybe getting my vote, but because it's one of Bava's best, not because Eater isn't good. (It's very good.)
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Aug 24, 2021 20:33
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Yeah I kept thinking about the work sexism angle watching it too. Was a great way to do it
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Aug 24, 2021 20:53
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Love the rad new av, MZ 
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Aug 25, 2021 02:32
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It's mesmerizing
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Aug 25, 2021 02:33
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Holy hell, its Wednesday. That snuck up on me. Thankfully I still have just about 37 hours to watch the movies (and start Friday's writeup). Can still vote or change your vote until 3 AM EST Aug 27th (or when I wake up). Next week might go up a bit later than usual since I don't know this week's results so can't draw the winners yet. Depends on if I'm crazy enough to setup alternatives or stay up all night. Right now I gotta get some movies in and just start the writeup. And then remember to vote!
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Aug 25, 2021 19:08
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To the surprise of no one, I'm voting for my teams entry, Ganja & Hess. Dark Crystal is a good movie, a grand fantasy tale with some incredible production design. A fantastic work by Jim Henson and co. Ganja and Hess is Bill Gunn's sole vision. A movie he made by tossing much of the original script thanks to having creative freedom from producers who were overseas for another production at the time of filming. It's experimental, weird, at times sloppy, but in its rawness is something powerful. A movie far ahead of its time, discussing issues in a way you rarely get in a movie. It creates a dreamlike world that hones in on a character study where two characters battle with their identity in terms of race, faith, and sexuality. It attacks you with impressive sound design, overlaying several soundscapes for several scenes to disorient the viewer, placing us in the head space of our leads. There's some great visuals and camerawork with some excellent use of edits, angles, composition, and slow motion to help create the dream like atmosphere. It might not be for everyone, but it's a film that rewards you for watching it multiple times and has a way of burrowing into your head for days.
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Aug 26, 2021 20:34
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I have nostalgia for The Dark Crystal (it’s one of the first movies I remember seeing in the theater), and it still works for me as an adult. But yeah, Ganja & Hess is the superior picture. It’s too bad Duane Jones didn’t star in more films. And Black Sabbath is one of the few Bava movies I like, so I’m voting for it over Eater, which didn’t do much for me. I love the behind the scenes bit with the faked horseback ride.
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Aug 26, 2021 21:25
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I feel lousy. I admit, I might be a little burnt out. As a distraction this week from a difficult couple of weeks I created a representation of my state of mind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tKxbjxUOY8 Ok, enough about me. Lets see the votes.   Mario Bava not only advances to the Final Four but he gets his SECOND shut out of the tournament! Unfortunately for him he yet again misses the 100% mark thanks to a single abstention but it still puts him in a singular position with 2 of the 5 shutouts this entire tourney. It also puts him back in 1st place for directors in total votes (second only to Predation) and first overall in ballot percentage. And joining him is MZ’s One N Dones as Ganja & Hess doesn’t quite get a shutout but still coasts pretty easily past the Henson fantasy epic. That makes the 3rd super team in there in a battle of spook-a-doodle regulars. Deb’s second team Family Friendly does go home but 4 rounds is no small feat especially for a team that pushed the bounds of “horror” and Stuart Gordon improves on his Sweet Sixteen finish last year and the combined 7 rounds is the best run of any director in this… I think? I’ll have to double check that. Mental note. I’m tired. Its Final Four time! 2. Mario Bava’s Lisa and the Devil vs. 4. (MacheteZombie’s The One n Dones) Na Hong-jin’s The Wailing  Mario Bava is the sole remaining solo director, the sole top seed standing, the only entry to rack up TWO shutout victories, the overall votes leader for solo directors and the overall ballot percentage leader for all. Bava is simply killing it. But he may have finally reached a hard end because the top of his filmography is burnt and now he draws a solid but unremarkably regarded deep cut. And its a bad time for it not just because its the Final Four but also because he’s going against the team second only to Predation in overall dominance with the One n Dones. And MZ draws a recent critical darling in The Wailing in a tournament that has consistently responded very favorably to that Korean tonal whiplash epic dark humor and themes. Can Bava’s old school blend of gothic and giallo in his legendary camera eye pull another round off and get a chance to stop the domination of the super teams in the Championships? Or does One n Dones fulfills this tournament's experiment’s destiny for the clash of curated mega teams? Lisa and the Devil is available on Shudder, AMC+, and Spectrum and available for free on Kanopy. The Wailing is available on Amazon Prime, Amazon Prime Video, AMC Plus, fuboTV, Hi-YAH, Hulu, Rakuten Viki, and Shudder and free on Crackle, Hoopla, Plex, Pluto TV, and Tubi TV. 5. (Deb’s Queer as in gently caress You) Alejandro Jodorowsky’s Santa Sangre vs. 16. (Tarnop’s Predation) Tomas Alfredson’s Let The Right One In  It was always going to come down to this, I guess. The cries of concern were right. The Final Four has three super teams and two of them clash here. Predation has dominated the tournament from before the field of 64 even started. 5 rounds of victories not only racking up the most total votes but also the highest ballot percentage for teams, second only to Mario Bava. Deb has however been the most successful team builder getting two teams into the Elite Eight and Queer as in gently caress You is second in votes and in the top 5 in percentage. Now the two go against each other with two heavyweight films. Santa Sangre seems to bring the same indescribable energy that has driven the team this far while Let The Right One In has the same kind of dark and traumatizing content that Predation is known for. It is unsettling how many reviews describe LTROI as “sweet” and “romantic.” Both however seem to deal with well tread horror territory and story elements but with unique twists and spins on it. Its four hours of highly regarded horror uniqueness. Should be a slobberknocker. Santa Sangre is available on Fandor, Night Flight Plus, and FlixFling and free on Kanopy and Tubi TV. Let the Right One In is available on AMC Plus, Hulu, and Magnolia Selects and free on Hoopla and Kanopy. That’s it. That’s almost it. Just one more week after this. So these are the big decisions. Something something… I’m tired. Vote or change your vote until 3 AM EST Sept 3rd (or when I wake up) Bracket & Noms Spreadsheet Letterboxd List Next Week! The Championship! STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Aug 28, 2021 |
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Aug 27, 2021 08:21
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I'm glad that this tournament has revealed my taste in horror to be so good that just picking my favourites by directors with one horror credit creates something that gets referred to as a super team 
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Aug 27, 2021 08:40
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Shame about Bava, nothing can beat the Wailing. Really interested in how Santa vs Vampire turns out, both are sort of tailor made for the crowd here but still go very different directions in terms of mood and style.
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Aug 27, 2021 14:34
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married but discreet posted:Shame about Bava, nothing can beat the Wailing. I actually do think Lisa and the Devil is considerably better than The Wailing
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Aug 27, 2021 14:58
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married but discreet posted:Shame about Bava, nothing can beat the Wailing. I really like Let The Right One In, but Santa Sangre is a no-brainer pick for me. Just much wilder, weirder, and in many ways more ambitious. It’s also way more fun. Jodorowsky making a sorta-slasher around mystic carnival people rules.
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Aug 27, 2021 15:15
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Just wanted to say thank you to STAC, who has really done us a huge service here. I think we all know there are many other posters, myself included, who probably would've come up with a reason not to take this thing all the way to the finish line. This was a real endurance test and STAC, you aced it.
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Aug 27, 2021 15:36
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Basebf555 posted:Just wanted to say thank you to STAC, who has really done us a huge service here. I think we all know there are many other posters, myself included, who probably would've come up with a reason not to take this thing all the way to the finish line. This was a real endurance test and STAC, you aced it. 
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Aug 27, 2021 22:16
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Correction. I had it said that the vote was open until Aug 27th. Obviously that's a mistake I failed to update. As always vote is open until 3 AM EST Friday, which is Sept 3rd.
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Aug 28, 2021 05:27
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Basebf555 posted:Just wanted to say thank you to STAC, who has really done us a huge service here. I think we all know there are many other posters, myself included, who probably would've come up with a reason not to take this thing all the way to the finish line. This was a real endurance test and STAC, you aced it.
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Aug 28, 2021 12:09
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STAC is absolutely a total champ, and I just want to reiterate how I love all the stats. Interesting (and WRONG!) how the 70s seems to be the worst decade for horror according to the votes. Going to be fun making teams to fill out the blanks in the map too.
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Aug 28, 2021 15:27
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I feel like on my inevitable post mortem stat analysis deep dive I'm really gonna have to get to the root of that. Like I thought it might come down to a repudiation against Italian/giallo films or UK/Hammer but both countries did much better than the '70s. So like... those 70s losses have to be in the US I guess? That seems like the only country with enough losses to do it? So maybe its not a repudiation against any kind of era or sub genre but just a bunch of random movies and bad matchups? But getting to the heart of a couple of questions like why the 70s or Japan did so poorly interests me when this is all over. And it should be fun to help shape next year's tournament. Like how did we not have a single film from the 40s? That feels like a huge oversight. And actually that "fill out the map" thing gives me an idea. I should totally make a cumulative map with last year's films too. See if we can fill the board. I can't count votes for the first Bracketology unfortunately but I can do all the bigger country/year stats. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Aug 28, 2021 |
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Aug 28, 2021 15:41
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I actually do think Lisa and the Devil is considerably better than The Wailing This is an easy round: Bava and Jodorowsky without a doubt.
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Aug 28, 2021 15:50
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The 40s, although it has some great horror like any other decade, just doesn't have as deep a pool as the 30s or the decades that would come after. The 30s was really the decade of Universal Monsters, but by the 40s those movies had become less popular and the ones that Universal had the most success with in that decade were more comedic. So the 40s seems like a decade that was mostly defined by people having grown sick of the traditional spooks(and of course focused on WWII), and as a result not as many of them were made.
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Aug 28, 2021 15:53
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A sizable chunk of the worthwhile horror movies in the Forties were produced by Val Lewton. I guess you could assemble a team from what’s left? If you leave out the Universal films, you’ve got Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, Carnival of Sinners, The Return of the Vampire, The Uninvited, The Picture of Dorian Gray, Dead of Night, The Spiral Staircase, The Queen of Spades, Yotsuya Ghost Story… That’s a decent pool to pull from.
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Aug 28, 2021 18:37
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I voted Bava once again, which I'm sure is a shocker. I suppose in objective quality The Wailing has Lisa and the Devil beat in some areas but there were two things that made the decision fairly easy for me. First, The Wailing is long. And that's fine, it justifies it's length but at the same time I'm gonna use something like that as a tie-breaker in a close race because I just prefer horror to be shorter than that. The second thing is that this is a matchup of opposite tones, and for me the bonkers over the stop stuff in Lisa and the Devil is more fun than the non-stop dread and despair of The Wailing. The other matchup was harder because you've got two very unique films that I have a hard time finding fault with. In the end I voted for Santa Sangre, which propels itself forward in a much more forceful way than Let The Right One In, which is obviously slower and more meditative. But it really came down to splitting hairs within my own personal taste.
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Sep 1, 2021 16:21
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In the Santa Sangre vs. Let the Right One In matchup, I'm planning to vote for Santa Sangre. I really like both of them and there are so many matchups that Let the Right One In would have won, but Santa Sangre is just that much better. I watched it back in May and it was one of my highest rated movies for that month’s challenge. I also recently discovered that I misread a pretty big plot point in Let the Right One In and now I’m wondering if I rated more highly than I should have.
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Sep 1, 2021 18:11
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twernt posted:In the Santa Sangre vs. Let the Right One In matchup, I'm planning to vote for Santa Sangre. I really like both of them and there are so many matchups that Let the Right One In would have won, but Santa Sangre is just that much better. I watched it back in May and it was one of my highest rated movies for that month’s challenge. I also recently discovered that I misread a pretty big plot point in Let the Right One In and now I’m wondering if I rated more highly than I should have. I'm right with you on this whole post, including that last sentence. I did not rewatch LTROI for the challenge. On the other match-up, I really loved The Wailing and thought the Bava film was sort of a confusing mess. Easy vote for The Wailing, for me.
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Sep 1, 2021 20:27
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It is Wednesday! Almost the last time I'll say that, at least this year. Voting is still open for just under 36 hours or so. Vote or change your vote until 3 AM EST Sept 3rd (or when I wake up). I still should get in rewatches of the Wailing and Let The Right One In, which should barely fit in that 36 hour window. Fair warning, the championship writeup probably goes up a little later that usual. Its 3 matchups and I have no idea what they are. So either I writeup a bunch of different matchup combinations for a dozen different movies or I wait until I know who's advancing. But the writeup usually only takes me an hour or so so it might not even be noticeable to you. But maybe I'll sleep for once? Dunno. Just thought I'd mention it.
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Sep 1, 2021 20:28
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Let the Right One In is one of my favorite films though I haven't rewatched it in a while. I think that it's also something that deliberately distances itself from its source material (with respect to the plot point I'm guessing at — the loss of Eli's penis). I have only had the plot of the book described (and have no desire to read it), but it seems like it potentially severely colors how one interprets the movie. I'm not saying the film turns it into something it isn't, just that I feel it does handle it in a different way, and the film probably should be treated with how you respond to it on its own. I've been out in the woods this week but didn't want to miss at least the vote for LTROI. I am watching Santa Sangre now and it's not anywhere near getting my vote. It looks like it was fun to make at the very least.
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Sep 2, 2021 03:52
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Let the Right One In is an excellent film but its also definitely a very difficult, problematic one to deal with. Lots of people call it "romantic" or "sweet" but really to me is obvious its a deeply sinister story of predators. There is an overt pedophile story element to the book that the film removes, but it leaves the relationships intact to imply everything. What is the nature of Hakan and Eli's relationship? When did it begin? Is Eli grooming Oskar as his replacement just as he seems to fear? Does he see it because its the same thing that happened to him 30 or 40 years ago? That the film kind of avoids addressing this stuff directly is something I'm not sure what to do with. Is it just uncomfortable with the implications taken full out? Did it want the safe creepy elements of the story without the problematic parts? And what does that do and how does it contribute to the "romantic" interpretations of the film and its part in a modern legacy of similar "romances" between hundreds years old vampires and non adult humans? Is anyone gonna be Team Hakan or ship Buffy with him? I dunno how to feel about the film. Santa Sangre also feels like its dealing with some problematic elements of a different nature, if maybe a bit more abstractly. Its much more of the psychological approach of the film that feels like part of its inspiration in Psycho. And while its abstract it doesn't seem to actually shy away. The film is compassionate to its monster but also not shy about his sins. I don't know that I found it especially revolutionary or brilliant in any of its themes or approaches, most of which felt fairly familiar when you break them down. But I understand the film's timely appeal in response to all those 70s giallo and 80s slashers that I hate for being shallow, exploitative, too interested in reveling in its violence and savagery than adding depth of character or story. Santa Sangre feels a bit like Bava's trick of taking a sub genre I hate and putting together a version of it that I actually think is worth seeing. I'm not sure I liked Santa Sangre. Its still kind of a slasher and an art film and neither is really my thing. But its a much better and very interesting version of those things. So I'm not entirely sure here. I might like LTROI more, but I also might respect Santa more. Its been years since I watched LTROI and yet I was unenthused to revisit it this week and ultimately in part to just process my thoughts in a 1000 word Letterboxd review/essay on pedophile vampires. On the other hand I'm kind of considering rewatching Santa Sangre before my kanopy rental runs out just to pick up a bit more on its themes and art. So I think I'm giving my vote to Santa Sangre in this one. I still have to rewatch the Wailing and I'm gonna try tomorrow night before the vote ends. Right now I'm leaning Bava. I didn't love Lisa and the Devil and I really hated its needless foray into the realm of erotic rape. But that seems par and parcel to the style Bava was doing there and i remain impressed by Bava's skill to take a type of film I hate and make a version that I almost like if not for the key problems I have with it at its core. Its really gorgeous with tons of visuals. In fact part of what I hate about that thing is how gorgeous he makes it. But there's all the usual artistry and style of Bava. And I'd love that final act if it wasn't for that thing being such a big part of it. I dunno about the Wailing. Its probably an objectively better film and my review from last October is very positive on it. But I just really am struggling with engaging with it again for the 2+ hours I remember. Earned and satisfying? Perhaps. But it its still an investment and I'm not entirely sure its worth it. At elast it doesn't feel it to me this week. But I'm gonna try and maybe I'll change my mind.
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Sep 2, 2021 07:24
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I wouldn't say that Let the Right One In is glossing the issue, even if it did keep it a bit more muted. It's not sweet, but I think it is in some way romantic, or at least showing that love can exist even in these darker shadows of humanity. Oskar is clearly being groomed at least as a murderer, so I don't think we're supposed to be fully comfortable with what's going on. Eli seems to fall for him somewhat reluctantly, and this might be me reading more into it, but with what Eli and Håkan had could be the model for the future that Eli is comfortable with for now. Obviously acceptance is a major theme of the film, and it just happens to be that Eli cannot be accepted as a lover by anyone else at that moment. I don't necessarily think it's saying that pedophilia should be accepted because of that, anymore than it's saying murdering people and draining their blood should be tolerated. LTROI has still got my vote, but I will say Santa Sangre got better. I liked how it continually became weirder and creepier. It just didn't affect me nearly as much.
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Sep 2, 2021 09:24
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I hope everyone will do the right thing and rightfully crown Mario Bava the king of horror.
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Sep 2, 2021 14:54
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Gonna try and watch The Wailing and Lisa and the Devil tonight. I'm voting Santa Sangre over Let The Right One In, though.
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Sep 2, 2021 15:07
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TrixRabbi posted:I hope everyone will do the right thing and rightfully crown Mario Bava the king of horror. My one n done team must live on!
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Sep 2, 2021 15:15
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Would Bava have even been in this tournament if not for my nomination? Yes. But would Bava have made it this far without my constant support? Also yes. Anyway go Bava!
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Sep 2, 2021 15:16
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I almost certainly won’t be voting for Bava in the final. Watching Kill, Baby… Kill! kind of soured me on him. Great visual set pieces, but frequently the pacing between those sequences lags and the story is weak. His three movies with “black” in the title I like, but everything after that that I’ve seen, not so much.
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Sep 2, 2021 18:50
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Servoret posted:I almost certainly won’t be voting for Bava in the final. Watching Kill, Baby… Kill! kind of soured me on him. Great visual set pieces, but frequently the pacing between those sequences lags and the story is weak. His three movies with “black” in the title I like, but everything after that that I’ve seen, not so much. Dunno if it applies, but I find streaming is a bit unkind to Bava. I had seen Bay of Blood on streaming a couple of times and didn't gel with it, but I grabbed it on blu-ray on sale, rewatched it, and loved it. I feel like I've had that experience with most of his movies, minus the anthology films and Blood and Black Lace, which are good even with streaming quality. That said, I'm not the biggest fan of Kill, Baby, Kill either.
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Sep 2, 2021 18:57
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Franchescanado posted:Dunno if it applies, but I find streaming is a bit unkind to Bava. I guess not in my case— Kill, Baby… Kill! I saw on the big screen. I’ve also seen A Bay of Blood in the theater on 35mm, with the same takeaway.
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Sep 2, 2021 19:12
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Kangra posted:I wouldn't say that Let the Right One In is glossing the issue, even if it did keep it a bit more muted. It's not sweet, but I think it is in some way romantic, or at least showing that love can exist even in these darker shadows of humanity. Oskar is clearly being groomed at least as a murderer, so I don't think we're supposed to be fully comfortable with what's going on. Eli seems to fall for him somewhat reluctantly, and this might be me reading more into it, but with what Eli and Håkan had could be the model for the future that Eli is comfortable with for now. Obviously acceptance is a major theme of the film, and it just happens to be that Eli cannot be accepted as a lover by anyone else at that moment. I don't necessarily think it's saying that pedophilia should be accepted because of that, anymore than it's saying murdering people and draining their blood should be tolerated. See, I dunno. I don't think Eli "falls for" Oskar at all. I think she's a predator manipulating him. And if she DOES fall for him isn't that pedophilia? She's not a child even if she physically looks like one. She's very much the usual cold, callous vampire killer but she shows moments of vulnerability with Oskar. But they're all contrived, no? She enters his apartment and bleeds out knowing that will happen and knowing it will make herself vulnerable to Oskar. Its manipulation. And I don't necessarily think the film was saying "this relationship is good" but its definitely not overtly saying "this relationship is bad." And maybe that's ok, but its weird considering the stuff it left out from the book and the way so many have interpreted the film. And I don't know what to do with that. But it also loops into a lot of complicated questions I have about modern vampire stuff in general and the emphasis on "sexy tortured brooding" vampires and the "romanticism" of teenage girls falling for century's old serial killers. But that's just a jumbled mess of ideas and I dunno if LTROI is a repudiation of it or continuation. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Sep 2, 2021 |
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Sep 2, 2021 20:54
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Vote for the Wailing, it slaps
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Sep 2, 2021 23:42
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