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Mordja posted:Anyway, now that the last episode has aired and the dust has settled, can we all agree that Pieck is the best for being the only sane, well-adjusted character in the entire show? You're forgetting Jean. Honestly, they should be together: Cart x Horse. But yeah Pieck is the best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQKioJVPq9A Beefstew fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Nov 9, 2023 |
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Nov 9, 2023 04:09
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A great bit about that that they never explicitly explain and I didn't notice it until I read it in a comment -- she's doing that to show Porco that she's cuffed to Gabi.
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Nov 9, 2023 04:29
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MJeff posted:A great bit about that that they never explicitly explain and I didn't notice it until I read it in a comment -- she's doing that to show Porco that she's cuffed to Gabi. As I've said many times before, Attack on Titan is a really smart manga. Lots of tiny touches that you probably don't pick up on that reveal major plot points in advance. What's more, it's a manga that's great at writing smart people. Armin, Hange, Erwin, Zeke, Pieck, they're not doing the Code Geass "Ah ha! I perfectly predicted everything you would say." thing. They're just... being smart. Having good plans, figuring things out, showing their own weaknesses and vulnerabilities. (Zeke not seeing the sacrifice play coming, for example, is entirely in character). It's really neat. It's also fun how Pieck went from being "The weird looking Titan with the Beast" to, well, Pieck.
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Nov 9, 2023 07:55
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chiasaur11 posted:As I've said many times before, Attack on Titan is a really smart manga. Lots of tiny touches that you probably don't pick up on that reveal major plot points in advance. Zeke and Levi's rivalry in generally is just brilliantly written. Zeke keeps underestimating Levi and keeps getting destroyed because of it, Levi really wants to kill Zeke, but he can't, because his titan makes him too important (and Levi underestimates Zeke too and gets exploded because of it) and Levi spends so much time building it up in his head and obsessing over his last conversation with Erwin that he's become fully convinced that killing Zeke and honoring Erwin, then Zeke finally offers himself up and Levi takes it, but you can tell by the look on his face, it doesn't feel anything like what he thought it would. This falls somewhere in that "die with your eyes open and your head held high" conversation, I just know it. 
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Nov 9, 2023 14:53
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a seagull posted:Burn After Reading: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6VjPM5CeWs Thank you, from the bottom of my heart.
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Nov 9, 2023 15:18
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MJeff posted:Zeke and Levi's rivalry in generally is just brilliantly written. Zeke keeps underestimating Levi and keeps getting destroyed because of it, Levi really wants to kill Zeke, but he can't, because his titan makes him too important (and Levi underestimates Zeke too and gets exploded because of it) and Levi spends so much time building it up in his head and obsessing over his last conversation with Erwin that he's become fully convinced that killing Zeke and honoring Erwin, then Zeke finally offers himself up and Levi takes it, but you can tell by the look on his face, it doesn't feel anything like what he thought it would. It does, but I think there's even more with Levi's philosophy and Zeke's. Levi's anchor, explicitly called out in this episode even if you haven't seen that it's the title of his spin-offs, is "No Regrets". Whatever choice he makes, he accepts the consequences, because if he started asking "What if?", it would probably kill him. Zeke, meanwhile, spent his whole life regretting being born, and when Armin talks him out of that, he turns around and regrets almost everything else, lamenting about dying but accepting it because he regrets his sins even more.
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Nov 10, 2023 06:08
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i really loved the ending of the show in particular, i liked armin's line about how, by using mass murder to equalize the power balance between paradis and the rest of the world, what eren's done is ensure that everyone remains trapped in the same kill or be killed mindset that's the cause of basically every problem experienced by every character in the show. very much enjoyed the theme of that mindset being a virus that spreads every time someone acts on it, forcing the people around them into the same mindset and creating a world where it's difficult to conceive of solutions outside that paradigm. god drat would i have been upset if the ending i saw was those manga panels though
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Nov 12, 2023 22:11
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ninjewtsu posted:very much enjoyed the theme of that mindset being a virus that spreads every time someone acts on it, forcing the people around them into the same mindset and creating a world where it's difficult to conceive of solutions outside that paradigm. It's game theory and Eren is just slamming down on that betray button. Lots of people are like this, unfortunately, and think it's a smart and logical way to interact with others. I definitely got to rewatch it but one thing I didn't catch was how did Ymir's situation resolve? Maybe I missed something trying to enjoy the animation and reading the subtitles at the same time but it seemed in one scene Ymir was angry and acting out her wrath through Eren and then Eren dies and she just fades away. Did she ever find peace? I really liked the ending. Since starting this series I did read through most of the Herbert's Dune books, so my mind draws a lot of parallels between the two regarding the whole prescience situation. In both cases billions of lives are lost and "difficult decisions" are made "for the good of humanity." It takes a bit away from the novelty of all this but I still enjoyed the spin Isayama put on it. Another thing the two share, and something I'm glad held true in Attack on Titan through to the end, is that everyone is characterized so well. Everyone is insecure, everyone is agonizing about their actions, no one really knows what they're doing and no matter their training or beliefs when reality hits it has real psychological implications that these imperfect human characters have to deal with and process. I loved the part in the first half where they try to consider how Eren must be feeling and why he's not stopping them. cgeq fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Nov 12, 2023 |
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Nov 12, 2023 22:28
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cgeq posted:It's game theory and Eren is just slamming down on that betray button. Lots of people are like this, unfortunately, and think it's a smart and logical way to interact with others. She got eaten by Porco like 50 episodes ago dude...... 
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Nov 12, 2023 22:33
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MJeff posted:She got eaten by Porco like 50 episodes ago dude...... The other Ymir
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Nov 12, 2023 22:39
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I think the bit with OG Ymir was that she was in love with her abuser, hence her persistence for thousands of years, and Mikasa's choice to kill Eren showed her that there was another way. She didn't have to take it anymore, which is why we last see her (in the paths or something) hugging her children while King Fritz has a spear through his heart. edit: not to equate Eren's obliviousness towards Mikasa's feelings with Fritz's outright maliciousness. Eren was a teenage dumbass who took her for granted, and probably would've grown past that if circumstances had allowed. Fritz just sucked. But it got the point across to Ymir. a seagull fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Nov 12, 2023 |
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Nov 12, 2023 23:18
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cgeq posted:The other Ymir It's kind of messy (and I'm in the crowd that thinks she tied into Historia's arc in past drafts, which helps explain why the end of Ymir's arc clunked) but I think the idea was that when she was freed, Ymir noticed Mikasa as someone in her position, in love with someone doing horrible things. When Mikasa killed Eren, Ymir was able to look back on her past and imagine a world where she made the right choice, giving her children a happier future. Skipping over to something else I wanted to cover while the conversation is still going, I'd like to note something kinda neat about Levi losing use of his leg, in that it was saving Connie Springer. Now, for the most part, Connie's the most "Just some guy" of the main cast. But look at Levi's squads. Most of them died (and died badly), except the protagonist group that formed the second special operations squad. And there? Armin got promoted out to Commander. Eren went rogue, and now Levi has to help put him down. Mikasa's promoted to an independent unit Jean has his own squad Historia is queen. Sasha's dead. And Connie... is still Levi's subordinate. The last one left. They spent years working together, and, with Hange dead, Connie's probably his best friend among the living, sad as that may be. If Connie dies, that's it. Levi is a failure as a commander. Everyone who trusted him died for it, if they didn't have the sense to run first. Saving Connie is saving a part of his soul. (I'm reminded of some old Sgt. Rock comics, where Rock tried to save just one member of Easy Company after an apparent massacre. Just one person being alive means that Easy survived, and Rock didn't fail them.) Kind of a neat conclusion to his arc. After so many years as the unstoppable hero who loses everyone, he loses his ability to fight in order to stop losing.
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Nov 12, 2023 23:42
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One of the funniest things about the whole show is that Levi's like 40.
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Nov 13, 2023 02:07
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Starts looking it by the end. Came by it honest at least.
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Nov 13, 2023 02:13
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Watched the FINAL episode. It was okay I guess, it was nice to look at. The whole plot is too convoluted and it seems like the author wrote themselves into a corner by the end but I've never read the manga and tend to forget stuff between seasons so maybe I'm wrong.
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Nov 14, 2023 19:39
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:Watched the FINAL episode. It was okay I guess, it was nice to look at. The whole plot is too convoluted and it seems like the author wrote themselves into a corner by the end but I've never read the manga and tend to forget stuff between seasons so maybe I'm wrong. 100% wrong I'm sad to say When the author has literally told you the final page on the first page, they could never "write themselves into a corner" I'd go as far as to to say this is the best planned TV fiction of all time right now
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Nov 15, 2023 00:37
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the plot is certainly convoluted but i agree it's also very tightly and smartly written, i don't feel like there was any substantial cheap writing or easy out taken with the story
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Nov 15, 2023 01:11
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Eh, I've always considered the last arc the weakest, writing-wise. It's not bad, but it's definitely not fantastic. In a way, I think that it was kind of written into a corner by having a set ending the entire time. Isayama himself has said in recent interviews that a lot of what Eren says about being stuck on one path is inspired by the author's own feeling of being trapped in an ending that was decided to write in the beginning, when he was younger. I feel like at times characters had to be written as less smart, and more selfless than they were in the past arcs. My opinion is, the majority of the writing up to The Rumbling is fantastic, but then when push came to shove, getting from the Rumbling to The End was kind of weak comparatively. Below-fantastic writing doesn't make something unfulfilling to watch, however. I still like the last arc and the ending very much, and found it to be stunning when it went from manga to anime, and enjoyed it quite a lot. I like the last scenes after Mikasa's death, and find them to be very illustrative of the human condition. The final scene is just perfect. I also like the discussions where people argue about the nature of the curse and the parasites, and think it's better that there was ambiguity. I'm probably the only person who liked the fact that it was a Precambrian worm parasite with not much else explained, only a scant amount of information to use as clues for a conclusion.  The romance plot at the end will always be a, "lol ok" to me, but I don't hate it.
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Nov 15, 2023 02:34
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Catalina posted:I feel like at times characters had to be written as less smart, and more selfless than they were in the past arcs. My opinion is, the majority of the writing up to The Rumbling is fantastic, but then when push came to shove, getting from the Rumbling to The End was kind of weak comparatively. Could you give some examples, please? Would be interested for the sake of keeping the discussion going now this thread is dead.
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Nov 15, 2023 04:39
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I don't have a problem with the Worm/Hallucigenia/Nidhogg/Eldia Beast. I think if they had expounded on it anymore it would've been significantly worse.
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Nov 15, 2023 05:16
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the characters sitting around in a forest post-rumbling and working out their complex relationships and emotions towards one another was one of the best parts of the show, as was the harbor scene that followed (armin and connie working through killing their friends "for the greater good" is fantastic), as well as hange's finale scene
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Nov 15, 2023 05:16
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primordial germ god is not the most interesting plot element but i have no problems with it
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Nov 15, 2023 05:17
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I made a dumb image because I couldn't get this joke out of my head. Joke Explainer 5000: In an episode of Nichijou, Yukko gets an 80 on her test and spends several scenes bragging about it, to the point where it interrupts a separate recurring segment on "Cool Things." The number made me think of a certain young lad's accomplishments. Faces shamelessly lifted from this classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qonD0LWykJY
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Nov 15, 2023 13:54
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Alan_Shore posted:Could you give some examples, please? Would be interested for the sake of keeping the discussion going now this thread is dead. I truly apologize for not being engaging; analyzing and discussing this show is fun; but my days of discussing anime on the internet in depth are behind me. Especially Attack on Titan, which ended two years ago for me. Which when I discussed on this forum triggered some good discussion, but also got me insulted and asked to defend scenes that people hated with the assumption that if I couldn’t defend questionable writing, I had no right to think the ending was anything but 100% terrible. There’s truly no community like, Something Awful, it runs mature and thoughtful. The only “alternative” I can think of is Reddit, with subreddits that range from thoughtful and well moderates to completely unhinged and paranoid. Beefstew posted:I made a dumb image because I couldn't get this joke out of my head. Took me a minute, but when I got it, I laughed and laughed. Maybe this is a sign that I finally need to watch Nichijou.
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Nov 15, 2023 21:18
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Catalina posted:I truly apologize for not being engaging; analyzing and discussing this show is fun; but my days of discussing anime on the internet in depth are behind me. Especially Attack on Titan, which ended two years ago for me. Which when I discussed on this forum triggered some good discussion, but also got me insulted and asked to defend scenes that people hated with the assumption that if I couldn’t defend questionable writing, I had no right to think the ending was anything but 100% terrible. Ugh, sorry that happened. Sounds like once again, anime-only watchers stay winning. Thank goodness for such talented hard-working people who gave their all for this show.
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Nov 15, 2023 22:09
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was the scene with worm/nidhogg in the manga? I kind of like the framing that it was life's foundational drive to propagation
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Nov 15, 2023 23:52
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A big flaming stink posted:was the scene with worm/nidhogg in the manga? I kind of like the framing that it was life's foundational drive to propagation Yeah, it was for the most part an extremely straight adaptation. The only real significant differences are Eren and Armin's conversation, which had the flow of it changed and the end heavily rewritten/expanded, and the epilogue, which changed the implied amount of time that passed during it.
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Nov 15, 2023 23:57
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Alan_Shore posted:Ugh, sorry that happened. Sounds like once again, anime-only watchers stay winning. Thank goodness for such talented hard-working people who gave their all for this show. No problem. I've loved this show since 2013, I'm really happy that anime-onlies got such a good experience. Season 3 and The Finale got a really good treatment in the anime; in the manga, they had some weird pacing issues and a very first-draft kind of feel. https://www.ranker.com/list/attack-on-titan-manga-and-anime-differences/anna-lindwasser If anyone is curious.
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Nov 16, 2023 00:15
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The final Eren/Annie fight goes a bit differently in the manga too. No berserker mode or anything like that
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Nov 16, 2023 00:37
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Catalina posted:I truly apologize for not being engaging; analyzing and discussing this show is fun; but my days of discussing anime on the internet in depth are behind me. Especially Attack on Titan, which ended two years ago for me. Which when I discussed on this forum triggered some good discussion, but also got me insulted and asked to defend scenes that people hated with the assumption that if I couldn’t defend questionable writing, I had no right to think the ending was anything but 100% terrible. Thank you! And yes, you should watch Nichijou. That might be my favorite anime. And yeah, this series is the absolute worst when it comes to bad faith arguments and people being completely unhinged in their discussions one way or another. It's hard to find folks to talk about it because so many people just want to argue the stupidest points. So I feel you on that.
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Nov 16, 2023 05:29
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christmas boots posted:The final Eren/Annie fight goes a bit differently in the manga too. No berserker mode or anything like that That felt kinda weird. Like they wanted to give the protagonist an upgrade for the climactic fight to cap off the season finale, except he didn't get one in the story they were adapting so they kinda made one up, but not really.
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Nov 16, 2023 05:30
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The anime never properly adapting the Mikasa/wall titan reveal is the only big failure. Ymir's backstory, having been revealed in manga form only a few months earlier before the Marley arc began, being moved all the way back to season 2 and seeing that poo poo animated despite seeing the pen and ink version not long before and anime-onlies not knowing what wall they were looking at or not knowing they were looking at Marley already was maddeningly crazy and I can't believe manga readers weren't louder about it. Szmitten fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Nov 16, 2023 |
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Nov 16, 2023 15:02
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Szmitten posted:The anime never properly adapting the Mikasa/wall titan reveal is the only big failure. The whatnow?
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Nov 16, 2023 15:06
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MJeff posted:The whatnow? Agreed. What? I never saw berserk Eren as a power-up. I just thought he was super pissed off and it was a more stylistic thing. I never asked why Eren didn't go SSJ again. The only failure in my eyes was the baffling change from Mikasa getting the tattoo to embroidering. That's the only set-up they whiffed on.
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Nov 16, 2023 15:32
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I believe that in the manga, the wall cracking to reveal the Wall Titan underneath actually happened during (or maybe immediately after?) the Annie fight. And Mikasa was like right next to its face when it happened. Also, Annie's laughing fit in season 1 is an anime addition.
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Nov 16, 2023 16:12
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No way, the way the wall just crumbles to reveal the titan face at the end of the season is too perfect
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Nov 16, 2023 17:30
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Alan_Shore posted:No way, the way the wall just crumbles to reveal the titan face at the end of the season is too perfect this is correct but it sounds like mikasa staring in horror at it could've been a sick s2 opener
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Nov 16, 2023 20:51
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Szmitten posted:The anime never properly adapting the Mikasa/wall titan reveal is the only big failure. I do remember quite liking the super creepy s2 end credits
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Nov 17, 2023 22:07
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That ending sequence covered a bunch of deep lore that would not be revealed in the manga for years lol
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Nov 17, 2023 22:13
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Mordja posted:One of the funniest things about the whole show is that Levi's like 40. Levi's a standout in shonen manga because he's an older guy who's got a reputation as the world's biggest rear end-kicker at the start of the story... and he doesn't die or get left behind by the power curve. He starts the series as Humanity's Strongest Soldier and he ends the series maybe in second place... after losing an eye, a leg, three fingers, and nearly dying in an explosion a couple days earlier. Ackermen really are built different. Also, in another bit of might-as-well-say-something-while-the-thread's-alive, I was thinking about Historia's arc, including its abrupt end and, weirdly, I think it works better for her in the final if Eren isn't the father, even if it's better for his arc if he is. If the farmer is the father, then Historia fulfilled Ymir's wishes. She found someone to love, had a family, and lived up to being the worst girl in the world by sacrificing everything for them. She had someone who finally didn't abandon her, and a fascist takeover of the island and the death of millions, maybe billions was something she accepted to preserve it. Meanwhile, if Eren is the father, then he's just another in a long line of people she loved who sacrificed their relationships with her for some Greater Cause. Her sister died for the island, Ymir died for her and Reiner, and now Eren died for his friends and his dream. She's abandoned again, forced to accept one more unfair sacrifice. Her lack of focus in the final arc is a mess either way, but she does manage to close the loop with the farmer in a way she doesn't if her relationship with Eren was more significant. I still think that was an earlier plan, to be clear. I just also think that the way things worked out, it can't just be shoved back in without difficulty.
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Nov 18, 2023 00:16
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