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White Coke posted:What would the consequences of Malta falling to the Axis have been? Would the Axis have been able to support a larger number of troops in North Africa? Would they have been able to conquer Cyprus or Gibraltar? Would the Allies need to retake it before landing on Sicily? It doesn't really change much the issue is still port capacity. With only Tripoli and Alexandria able to supply a reasonable size army most combat between the two is going to be indecisive and while the pinpricks from Malta would annoy the Germans and Italians they couldn't cripple the north African war effort nor would taking Malta somehow magically make the port at Tobruk or Benghazi bigger. As for convoys losing Malta would probably improve things slightly for the allies. Most shipping was already being routed around the cape and the only convoys to go straight across the med were either to resupply Malta itself or high speed runs in the early part of the North African campaign (the famed tiger convoys). Arguably not having to lose ships to support doomed runs at Malta would be a net improvement. Gibraltar would need Spanish co-operation and Cyprus would need Turkish co-operation so we're getting into real gay black Hitler territory here what do Turkey and Spain demand for their aid in closing the Mediterranean? Britain had plans in place to seize the Canaries in the event of a war with Spain so bases there could server much the same function as Gibraltar. But without Gibraltar is Torch launched? Is it aimed at Spain instead? As for if Malta falls and things otherwise things remain the same then it probably does get re-taken or it might be bypassed in the same way the Channel Islands were or be incorporated into the deception plans like Elba and Greece were. Really it depends on what forces the Germans and Italians deploy there.
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Nov 10, 2021 00:56
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Depends when it happens. If the Italians take it immediately in 1940 that might make a huge difference when/if Rommel arrives because there won't be nearly as much of a supply problem. Summer of '42? Not much changes in the long term but the immediate effects are pretty bad, especially in terms of British morale. Good point. Churchill was already wobblily after the fall of Singapore if Malta goes down on his watch as well might we see him be forced to resign? And who would be the obvious replacement? Eden?
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Nov 10, 2021 01:16
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Tomn posted:I’m reading a book about trade written by an economist and a lot of the history is causing me to wince. There was one claim I wanted to check up on though - at one point, discussing the Treaty of Tordesillas, he makes the claim that all Catholic monarchs were theoretically vassals of the Pope, with their crowns leased back to them in return for tribute. The Catholic Church did claim ownership of Western Europe based on the forged Donation of Constantine which allegedly handed over control of the Western Roman Empire to the Pope, which was taken at various levels of seriousness until the 15th Century when it was proven to be a forgery. Also there was the centuries long conflict within the Holy Roman Empire between do emperors appoint popes? Or do popes appoint emperors? With the answer honestly being it depends on the relative strength of the emperor and the pope. And there were various I want to call tactical appeals to the popes pretensions of universal monarchy where a monarch in trouble (John I of England comes to mind) would swear allegiance to the pope in the hope of using the popes moral and spiritual authority as a shield of protection against trouble.
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Apr 11, 2024 19:31
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