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Patrick Mahomes is what Andrew Luck was supposed to be.
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Dec 8, 2020 18:40
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:Patrick Mahomes is what Andrew Luck was supposed to be. Yeah but Mahomes has elite offensive talent around him and an all-time offensive mind coaching him. Who knows what Luck turns into in that scenario Which is, perhaps, your point
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Dec 8, 2020 18:41
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I think in general people underestimate circumstances when it comes to players development. Even the best QBs struggle if put in a bad situation. I think Tom Brady is a great example of this Early Tom would have washed out if the league for sure but after enough time and development he was the pats offense
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Dec 8, 2020 18:44
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I think the formula for developing a franchise QB requires a near perfect marriage of natural ability, coaching, supporting cast and some luck. It's really hard to get all four of those things to coalesce and that's why there are like 5-10 franchise QB's at any given time.
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Dec 8, 2020 18:45
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Ehud posted:I think the formula for developing a franchise QB requires a near perfect marriage of natural ability, coaching, supporting cast and some luck. Sure, but I think if you have a guy who is capable of being a franchise QB, he is going to show you some of that right away regardless of coaching - like Herbert. There's not going to be any of this "well if you kinda squint you can see some flashes in the last four games of the season" kind of crap.
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Dec 8, 2020 18:48
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Josh Allen though
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Dec 8, 2020 18:58
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He's gotta do it more than one season to be a franchise QB.
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Dec 8, 2020 19:09
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Between Allen, Jackson, Mahomes, and Watson it really seems like the NFL has dramatically improved at teaching accuracy and scheming up high percentage throws.
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Dec 8, 2020 19:10
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:He's gotta do it more than one season to be a franchise QB. He was good last year.
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Dec 8, 2020 19:12
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wandler20 posted:He was good last year. Not really. He couldn't hit the boardside of a barn over 20 yards. He was kind of a hot mess who did alot more with his legs than his arm. Impossibly Perfect Sphere fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Dec 8, 2020 |
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Dec 8, 2020 19:12
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:Not really. He couldn't hit the boardside of a barn over 20 yards. Fine. He was above average.
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Dec 8, 2020 19:14
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:Sure, but I think if you have a guy who is capable of being a franchise QB, he is going to show you some of that right away regardless of coaching - like Herbert. There's not going to be any of this "well if you kinda squint you can see some flashes in the last four games of the season" kind of crap. Hmm. That's a good question. I think I mostly agree with you. How about Drew Brees? No starts in his rookie season, year 2 and 3 were bad, started playing better in year 4 and 5, but didn't realize his potential as a clear cut franchise QB until year 6. There is also a lot of all time great dudes drafted in the last 25 years or so who may have benefitted from not having to take the field early on. It's all speculative, but would Rodgers be Rodgers if he was thrown into the deep end in his rookie season? Or would he be just another draft bust because he was asked to prove he was a franchise QB after one or two seasons?
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Dec 8, 2020 19:17
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That definitely seems like the general trend. And I agree most QBs get success through a lucky combination of four factors. There are outliers though. Brady is probably a nobody if he doesn’t go to NE. And Wilson is somehow a good QB despite having poopy offensive coaching in Seattle.
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Dec 8, 2020 19:21
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The funniest example is probably Kirk Cousins. What is he if he doesn't benefit from Washington ruining RG3?
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Dec 8, 2020 19:25
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Ehud posted:Hmm. That's a good question. I think I mostly agree with you. I dunno. Obviously my theories have some gaping holes and exceptions in them lol. But I think in general the conclusion the NFL is reaching is that you should start your rookie QB right away so he can start improving and you can take advantage of the cheap rookie salary. If not you're gonna be wasting prime cheap QB years on the back end of that rookie contract. I'm sure within that generalization there are situations where it makes sense to not do that - like if your rookie is coming off an injury like Tua, or if your oline is swiss cheese and the team has no weapons, or if your QB did not play in anything resembling an NFL offense.
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Dec 8, 2020 19:25
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HURTS NEW EAGLES STARTER
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Dec 8, 2020 19:37
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Yeah. Starting rookie QBs ASAP (assuming you can keep them healthy) is definitely the way to go. Learn via reps and experience.
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Dec 8, 2020 19:41
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Ornery and Hornery posted:Yeah. Starting rookie QBs ASAP (assuming you can keep them healthy) is definitely the way to go. shyduck posted:HURTS NEW EAGLES STARTER 
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Dec 8, 2020 19:45
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Thaddius the Large posted:Were you the one with the Alex Smith Super Genius avatar or whatever it was? I still think of that and I really don’t know why That was me, yeah. Supposedly he got a ridiculously high score on the Wonderlic or something so it became a running joke and I put it in my avatar because why not.
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Dec 8, 2020 19:48
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shyduck posted:HURTS NEW EAGLES STARTER just to reiterate https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1336059347131133957
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Dec 8, 2020 19:48
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AndrewP posted:just to reiterate https://twitter.com/FieldYates/status/1336059553469829124?s=20
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Dec 8, 2020 19:49
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shyduck posted:HURTS NEW EAGLES STARTER gently caress you wentz you fucker. Couldn't perform adequately for one more week
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Dec 8, 2020 19:54
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is there a CBA reason why the eagles can't cut wentz right now? they have almost 24MM in cap space and cutting wentz is a 25.4MM cap hit
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Dec 8, 2020 20:00
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hifi posted:is there a CBA reason why the eagles can't cut wentz right now? they have almost 24MM in cap space and cutting wentz is a 25.4MM cap hit Wentz has $33.9m in remaining prorated signing bonus money left that would accelerate to this year's cap if they cut him right now. The $25.4m is from a fully guaranteed $10m roster bonus next season as well as his entire $15.4m base salary. So cutting him right now would accelerate that $33.9 to this year's cap, and either the rest of that $25.4m as well or since those payments are in 2021, I think you can delay that chunk to the 2021 cap. The $25.4m being paid next year means they could theoretically trade Wentz to a team to eat all that money (though the roster bonus is due like a day after the new league year, so they'd have to do that fast to avoid eating that $10m).
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Dec 8, 2020 20:07
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AndrewP posted:it's all three - big accurate arm, elite weapons, offensive genius coach  Mahomes Fanboy Post Alert This is pretty basic so let me add some things: Mahomes drilled footwork every day with Mike Kafka for over a year before taking over for Smith and his number of dangerous throws dropped considerably compared to college Mahomes has elite vision and is able to avoid pass rushes while never taking his eyes away from downfield, something Smith never could do Mahomes is great on the chalkboard and famously retains information and doesn't make the same mistakes twice and it shows with how he processes information Reid has improved considerably in the past five years or so and incorporated a bunch of college plays and it transformed Smith before Mahomes ever got there The reason Mahomes throws to wide open receivers so often has less to do Reid "scheming them open" and more to do with Mahomes using motions to identify what defense he's facing and audibling his weapons to exploit weaknesses in coverage. Just pointing out that Mahomes' deep pass is like not in the top 3 of things he does well, not that that is what you were saying. He doesn't get the credit he deserves from the casual twitter fan saying he's overrated because his elite weapons are wide open constantly. I highly doubt guys like Demarcus Robinson are getting wide open for a lot of teams.
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Dec 8, 2020 20:08
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:You mean Andrew Luck? He was the consensus #1 overall and called a "generational" draft pick, a title he never really lived up to even before all the injuries and retirement. And Pep joined the Colts in Luck's 2nd year and was fired by after three because of the offense's poor performance. Impossibly Perfect Generational Talent This is some weird revisionism. Luck lifted those bad Colts teams before they broke him.
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Dec 8, 2020 20:16
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yeah, my point is that the post-june cuts split the guarantees over 2 years, I guess a trade would too. I think the best course is cutting him now because 1) they're losers so they should be looking at this as free salary cap room and 2) the cap might go down again in 2022, or at least not recover to what they want. tank now because they have 3 wins, tank in 2021 and maybe they have a resurgence because everyone else is screwed by the cap and they at least have their aging super bowl talent on the roster, and be reloaded for 2022. only problem is that a trade would get them *something*, but the window for that is probably after the one for cutting him and then they would be stuck with him if they can't work out a trade.
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Dec 8, 2020 20:18
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AndrewP posted:just to reiterate Please don't let this be Baker in 3 years. Please don't let this be Baker in 3 years. Please don't let this be Baker in 3 years. Please don't let this be Baker in 3 years.
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Dec 8, 2020 20:39
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:You mean Andrew Luck? He was the consensus #1 overall and called a "generational" draft pick, a title he never really lived up to even before all the injuries and retirement. And Pep joined the Colts in Luck's 2nd year and was fired by after three because of the offense's poor performance. don't really have to play a down to be considered a generational prospect leaf was a generational prospect
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Dec 8, 2020 20:55
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Henrik Zetterberg posted:Please don't let this be Baker in 3 years. I suggest we as the Browns panic and draft the next wonder kid and see if he can do anything in the next 3 years too. 2QB sets.
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Dec 8, 2020 20:59
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The Ravens rushed for 294 yards and 7.9 YPC. The Cowboys: not great
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Dec 9, 2020 05:11
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Lol Dez I feel bad for him but it’s funny.
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Dec 9, 2020 05:13
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AndrewP posted:The Ravens rushed for 294 yards and 7.9 YPC. I saw one play where a Dallas corner made a nice ankle tackle in the backfield for a 1 yard loss. maybe the Cowboys should just use dime as their base.
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Dec 9, 2020 05:22
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I think the Bengals are going to beat the Cowboys on Sunday
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Dec 9, 2020 05:28
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Lol Dez I feel bad for him but it’s funny. Particularly great how the breaking news that Dez got Covid was immediately followed by a ten minute interview with Bryant about playing Dallas.
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Dec 9, 2020 05:44
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The Puppy Bowl posted:Particularly great how the breaking news that Dez got Covid was immediately followed by a ten minute interview with Bryant about playing Dallas.
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Dec 9, 2020 05:58
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:You mean Andrew Luck? He was the consensus #1 overall and called a "generational" draft pick, a title he never really lived up to even before all the injuries and retirement. And Pep joined the Colts in Luck's 2nd year and was fired by after three because of the offense's poor performance. In defense of Luck he was/is a generational talent that took a team that went 1-15 with 243 points scored, and in his rookie year turned them into an 11-5 team that scored 357. Andrew Luck was god drat great, but he rightly bowed out after playing for over a year on a torn labrum in his throwing shoulder on top of every other injury he sustained.
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Dec 9, 2020 07:28
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Luck is very much an example of how even drafting a generational QB does not mean jack poo poo if you do not protect him with a good offensive line.
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Dec 9, 2020 08:21
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:Sure, but I think if you have a guy who is capable of being a franchise QB, he is going to show you some of that right away regardless of coaching - like Herbert. There's not going to be any of this "well if you kinda squint you can see some flashes in the last four games of the season" kind of crap. There were flashes that Carson Wentz was a franchise QB and here we are
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Dec 9, 2020 14:12
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And for Luck, even if you call him a finished product coming out of Stanford, doesn’t Pep still get some credit for being OC/Qb coach there?
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Dec 9, 2020 18:55
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