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MachuPikacchu posted:It's also the battle where you finally know exactly what your objective is and why you're fighting for it. Up to now most of the kids are fighting without really knowing why other than "don't let the Deimos reach the Terminal". Now you know that it's do or die time, and your back is so far up against the wall that you can smell the paint. and I love smelling paint 
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Sep 30, 2022 09:53
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This next update has an  element. Nothing too serious, but I'm going to link it in the testposter just to be safe. I could have just censored it, but that would have kind of ruined the impact of the scene while also making it into a bigger deal than I think it deserves.Chapter 118: Escape
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Oct 1, 2022 19:39
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Yeah that was the right call to be safe, but I really do love this part as both a drastic shift in tone from the intense battle just prior, and also all of the little threads coming together.
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Oct 1, 2022 20:09
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Never Within Sentinels
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Oct 1, 2022 20:17
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Helena: See how beautiful the sun is rising. I feel so strange today. It’s as if I was in a dream. I feel an aching in my body, in my heart, all over me. Primus, perhaps I’m going to die. Primus: Do you not sometimes feel that it would be better to die? You know, perhaps even now we are only sleeping. Last night in my sleep I again spoke to you. Helena: In your sleep? Primus: Yes. We spoke a strange new language. Helena: What about? Primus: I did not understand it myself, and yet I know I have never said anything more beautiful. And when I touched you I could have died. Even the place was different from any other place in the world. from R.U.R., by Karel Čapek.
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Oct 1, 2022 21:42
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What a ride.
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Oct 2, 2022 09:58
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So it kind of raises the question of why bother with the totally-legally-distinct-please-don't-sue Matrix, among others, but that's the foremost in my mind.
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Oct 2, 2022 14:14
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How can they be expected to rebuild society if they don't know how to do robot fights
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Oct 2, 2022 14:25
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Has it been mentioned at any point if they have the genetic information and tech to grow other humans? 13 people isn't gonna ensure genetic diversity and that seems like a big thing to miss. I would ordinarily overlook it, but this game is already  so I wonder if it came up and I didn't notice/forgot, as I've done a couple times in the thread already  .
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Oct 2, 2022 14:43
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GimmickMan posted:Has it been mentioned at any point if they have the genetic information and tech to grow other humans? 13 people isn't gonna ensure genetic diversity and that seems like a big thing to miss. I would ordinarily overlook it, but this game is already iirc in one of the logs they mention genetic data for other people?
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Oct 2, 2022 15:10
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Hwurmp posted:How can they be expected to rebuild society if they don't know how to do robot fights
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Oct 2, 2022 15:10
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That's not just it, right? There has to be a more proper denouemont at least.
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Oct 2, 2022 15:46
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kw0134 posted:So it kind of raises the question of why bother with the totally-legally-distinct-please-don't-sue Matrix, among others, but that's the foremost in my mind. I imagine that part of it is that they're not completely without resources and completely survivalist at this point. They still have all the ship tech with them, so a more societal approach would be reasonably helpful if the ship tech would help a lot here. Also, my assumption for the Matrix-like program was to have pretty skilled people leaving the pods, depending on whether they remember past loops. If they do remember, then, for the most part, they've got engineers, scientists, and soldiers, which is a decent start if some of your other needs with regards to basic survival and construction ability are already handled. But, even if they don't remember past loops anyway, I don't think the intention was for the final state of the survivors to be "high school children" in the first place. The only reason that happened was due to resets from UC and the robot thing was essentially a corruption of the program freaking out because Original Okino got lazy with the environment code, so the resets were definitely unintended. A program without resets would have something more like Adult Juro or Adult Chihiro exiting the pods. AncientSpark fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Oct 2, 2022 |
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Oct 2, 2022 16:09
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If there's a more detailed explanation somewhere I forgot where it is, but it was touched on at the start of the final battle. Basically, the kids grow in the Matrix so they are properly socialized through interactions with the Turing-test-passing NPCs while their bodies grow in the tanks. Clearing the final battle makes Universal Control realize poo poo's hosed and hit the "emergency decant" button, presumably without poo poo being hosed the last year or two in the Matrix would have seen UC bringing them up to speed.
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Oct 2, 2022 16:22
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Marluxia posted:iirc in one of the logs they mention genetic data for other people? In the last update Tamao says "We're transporting a massive cache of genetic information to the new world. There will be cloning and species-restoration efforts for all kinds of flora and fauna, including humans."
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Oct 2, 2022 16:31
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Alxprit posted:That's not just it, right? There has to be a more proper denouemont at least. Yeah there's more, we ain't done yet. kw0134 posted:So it kind of raises the question of why bother with the totally-legally-distinct-please-don't-sue Matrix, among others, but that's the foremost in my mind. There's a few comments here and there about how they wanted the kids to know Earth culture. They didn't want Earth's thousands of years of history to disappear. They also talk about how they had 5 sectors because they couldn't decide which era was The Last Good Earth Era before everything went downhill. You can kind of infer they wanted them to have the sensibilities and opinions of someone from those eras to try and avoid another apocalypse. SloppyDoughnuts fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Oct 2, 2022 |
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Oct 2, 2022 17:29
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I can see how the writers might think those are good answers, but I have doubts that raising people in either 1985 bubble economy Japan or loving WW2 jingoistic Japan are the societal backgrounds we want for our new pioneers.
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Oct 2, 2022 18:21
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when you think about it, the story ends with japan winning WW2 as hard as it possibly can
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Oct 2, 2022 19:17
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You have to kind of infer some stuff about the Matrix, but it's pretty clear that the people from 2188 didn't want to dump a bunch of poorly socialized functional newborns on the planet and ask them to just figure it out. This way they're both protected and raised to adulthood, given some context about the history they're trying to preserve, and then when they hit 18 they get another two years of training to take over themselves (that our characters do not seem to have received, for what it's worth). Yeah, the real reason there's a 1945 Sector is of course because that's the premise of the game, but I feel it's pretty decently justified. Anyway, we're two updates away from the end. I have to go somewhere next Wednesday and I won't be back until the following Sunday, so I'm gonna try to finish this before I go. After I finish, though, I'm going to ask that you guys submit any lingering questions so I can go through the Mystery Files and Event Archive and try to answer them.
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Oct 2, 2022 19:42
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Arist posted:a bunch of poorly socialized functional newborns they're thousands of years old actually
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Oct 3, 2022 02:32
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Hwurmp posted:they're thousands of years old actually Not sure if this is too "spoilery" at this point, where almost all questions have been answered, so if you'd like this edited, please let me know. Also, not sure if Arist is going to go into the developer's Q&As, but this is addressed there, and hinted at in the Mystery Files.
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Oct 3, 2022 18:19
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Takil posted:Not sure if this is too "spoilery" at this point, where almost all questions have been answered, so if you'd like this edited, please let me know. Is it really just hinted at though? Like, they don't hammer the point in too often but the answer to this literally defines the stakes for the protagonists. I could've sworn Inaba or Izumi just outright say it once or twice.
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Oct 3, 2022 18:26
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I'll cover that stuff when I'm done with the main story.
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Oct 3, 2022 18:59
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Hwurmp posted:they're thousands of years old actually I mean you have the past loop personalities, are they extracted from the same bodies every time or do they flush those every so often and start from scratch?
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Oct 3, 2022 19:02
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Pretty sure that poster was making a joke, because I believe they flush the bodies, yes (though they don't ever say so in-game). I see no reason to hide that at this point.
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Oct 3, 2022 19:03
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Yeah, very "if you die in the game, you die in real life", I mean unless UC is paying attention. I often mention that this game has filled me with the most existential dread (but also the most audacious hope) of any video game I've ever played.
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Oct 3, 2022 20:39
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Chapter 119: Epilogue  Oh, son of a bitch, this rear end in a top hat!? How is he even back!?   Universal Control appears to be operating normally.  The terminal connected without any issues. I knew you could do it, Ida-kun. After all that, I’m glad I gave you full control… Tomi… I have to know. I was alone after I shifted to the command ship. But in my darkest hour… do you know whose ID I relied on? …Shu Amiguchi’s. Because…  It’s you, Ida-kun. It’s always been you. Don’t you know that by now?Ugggghhhhhh I just… All I ever wanted was to be with you. …… If it’s possible, I’d like to join you. Wherever you are. You’d come here? That would be great. …But… Maybe it should wait until after all the sectors are back? …Hehe. You doubt me? No… No doubts at all, Ida-kun.   Gross. I’m gonna barf. …The command ship is about to cross the horizon. It’ll be goodbye, at least for another 14 hours. Yes… But until we’re cut off… could I hear you sing again? …Okay.Music: Seaside Vacation (Composer: Hitoshi Sakimoto Lyricist: Rikako Watanabe, Vocals: Hu Ito)  …Wait, what? Gouto and Ryoko are in here? And the city’s fixed? When is this taking place?  Never thought I’d be back here…  So? How’s life on the outside?  We now have two bases established above ground. Somehow, we’ve achieved some measure of stability. Ryoko and I have a new project. We’re looking into using the pods to recreate the people of this city.Ah, I see. Increasing the pool of genetic diversity while also bringing out the AI people we all know and… love? There’s only like three of them I would call actual characters, everyone else is a Protagonist or a nobody.  We found research notes from Ryoko Shinonome. The genetic engineer. Now we know enough to manipulate genetic information. It’s definitely possible. Sounds familiar. From before the plan, right? I suppose she was working on something like that…  I don’t know when we’ll be ready. But even if it takes years… We want them to see the second Earth. We’d welcome them. Well, then. Sounds like you’re doing just fine. I guess I won’t need to step in and lead you after all. I’ve heard a lot about you, Professor… Could we ask you to review our research? Fine. I can manage a peer review. *nods to Ryoko* Thank you, Professor Morimura. Yes, Miura is also here. Then I’m going to have to visit him.   Allow us to accompany you. Yeah.   MIWAKO      Wh-What’s gotten into you two? I just saw Natsuno-chan, and she was a crying mess too…  What do you mean? I just… I really, really missed you. You’re acting so strange, Usami-chan. Hey, Miwa-chan… Let’s go out to eat. Any of your favorite places. Yeah, yeah! Our treat. What…? What’s going on?    What?  Falling for me all over again?  Christ, Nenji. You are such an rear end…! You know, I didn’t forget you calling me dogface! Screw you, Captain Pompadour!  K-Kids!?  That’s what I said! Whoaaa whoa whoa!   Nothing, nothing…  Sorry. Where did Ei go? Eh, you know… He’s never been great with this stuff… Antisocial as always, huh… He said he was gonna hang back and monitor everyone’s pods. Oh well.That’s right, everyone. Ei is not in this epilogue sequence because he’s… monitoring the pods. Sorry if you liked him.   Uh… What? No! Of course not. Don’t worry about all that, okay? What do you feel like eating?      OH gently caress   That’s how I came out of the pod with you, too.  We’d never have come so far without you, Izumi-san. After all you did to get the new facilities up and running…  Hey, come on, man. Remember, I’m Kyuta Shiba here. Got it… Shiba-kun.  Everything’s back how it used to be… Still… There are definitely gonna be some inconsistencies. We basically forced a reset to right before the disaster… *elbows Juro* You worry too much, Juro. Inconsistencies aren’t a big deal! Universal Control can handle that stuff. *chuckle* I guess so. My data’s all in this place now anyway. So you’re gonna be on your own from now on. So you’re gonna be on your own from now on. I know. Oh yeah, almost forgot. The one I got today is gonna blow your mind.   ……No offense, Shiba, but gently caress no.   Goddammit, Juro.  Megumi…   I guess I didn’t realize how rugged you’d become in these last five years. You’re so cute back here… But you… you’re as gorgeous as you always were.   Barf. Cooing over each other like braindead lovebirds…  Ugh. This is so boring. *blushing* Please… Do you really have to act like that now? Guess I’m just a third wheel here anyway. You should come over to our house later. I’ll have a feast ready.    Music: The One (Kikuchi Yukinori)    Hey, Nenji. I certainly remember that hairstyle.  You waitin’ for Natsuno? Yes, we’re supposed to meet up here.      Put ‘em up, rear end in a top hat. We’re gonna settle this beef once and for all. *getting teary-eyed* You’ve been waitin’ all this time…? For me? I, uh… yeah? What the hell’s your problem…?  God, it’s good to see you too, man!   H-Hey, boss, I think he’s cryin’…   Ha! Oh man, I love that scene. RIP Billy Kametz.   Natsuno-san…  I just had to stop by the lockers… Your eyes are red. Were you crying? Well, yeah… ‘cause…  Oh, hey! BJ’s back!   It’s BJ all right.  The same data that we’re still using today. He’s always been saving us. We’ve only been able to return here thanks to you. We owe you so much…  All of you are the incredible ones. Miura… You’d take me? Yeah, BJ! …Maybe. Let me think about it. Well, for now… should we get going?   Where are you taking me today? I’m taking you home! It’s about time you met my parents.  Right now?  If it wasn’t clear yet, the epilogue takes place in the simulation so they could reuse all the old character and background art. This game suffered some pretty notable budget and time cuts near the end of its development. Hell, there was supposed to be a plotline with the Hijiyama AI from the previous loop, but that character was cut entirely.   Konatsu was so fussy today. Took forever to get into the pod. ‘Cause Konatsu loves mommy so much! She looks just like you, you know. Spitting image of you when we were kids. When I look at her, sometimes I feel like… She’s as much your kid as mine.WHOA! This is… really weird, considering Yuki is biologically Natsuno’s mother! I do not feel qualified to have any further opinion about this! Well, I dunno if I had any hand in it… Anyway, I heard the news. Finally getting hitched, huh? Gotta say, Keitaro needs to unclench a little…  This is a chance to take responsibility… You definitely take it more seriously than somebody I know. Okay, so? When’s the big day? Well, for today… I’m just taking him to see my folks. Wow, meeting the in-laws? Man. Now that takes me back. I wonder how your mom’s doing.Ask yourself! Let’s go see her. What about Shu-kun? …What about that sleazebag?   Here you are. Amiguchi-kun. Ah, come on… We came out all this way and you’re still mad? Nothing even happened!   After all this poo poo about “always being on the ladies’ side,” too. That makes it so much worse, dude! I don’t wanna hear it. Konatsu’s all I need. …Yeah, you’re right. I’ve been a real idiot.  Yuki, why!? …… I’d never find anyone better than you anyway. Not in this time… or any other. Look, you can’t smooth-talk me! You don’t get off that easy! Dude, keep it in your pants for five loving minutes! Well, too bad. I’m going to Nat-chan’s place. Yuki, it’s weird to invite yourself when your friend is introducing her parents to her fiancé.   I’ll come pick you up on the bike.  If you really think so, Nat-chan…  Music: Forty Winks (Rikako Watanabe)     It’s been 40 years, but it’s still the place we know. Yes. This certainly brings back memories. Sector 5 is almost restored, too. When it’s ready, we should take Keitaro back on a visit home. Just the three of us. It makes me think… If we really came this far in just 40 years… Then we can rebuild our future out there, too.  So this is why you left me behind? Sneaking off for a date? You must think you’re a real playboy now.   *gasp* Oh my! How adorable. You’re back in the Kiriko-chan dress. What’s the matter, Hijiyama-kun? *shock*  You still don’t get it? Come on, think about it. This is a virtual world.  Hey, check if you want. Wh… You can’t just tell me to… What, now of all times you lose that confidence? Rrgh…    *giggling* My, Takatoshi-san! You really do like Okino-kun, don’t you?  Jesus christ, this game is still trying to gently caress with me, huh?   Two Tamao-sans? Yeah… This is No. 18. So she’s the Tamao-san from the loop before us… Her mind is housed inside this android. It’s not like she’s a stranger, so I brought her back, too.  So you’re the other me. It’s a pleasure to meet you. Well, anyhow. No point just standing around here. Let’s go outside.  I knew you were a lost cause when it comes to dates, but this is just sad. Or were you gonna jump her? Ah, well. I suppose I’d better step in.  Heh.  We’ll be just fine. Wait a minute… W-What’s this about couples? Why should I listen to you…? How sweet. Well, sweet by Okino’s standards, anyway. I didn’t need basically everyone (except Gouto and Ryoko, thankfully, cause that sure woulda been weird) to pair off in the end here, but I like most of the pairings so whatever.  I don’t know what it was like for all of you… or… Maybe I just want to know what really came of all our efforts. Then let’s talk. It’d be my pleasure to explain. It took an incredible amount of time, but… What they achieved truly was… a miracle.        ……  Music: A F8ful Struggle (Hitoshi Sakimoto)  I told you I’d rescue you. You still remember? …Yes. I remember. I know it took a while, but… I was hoping we could have a fresh start. A fresh start? Yeah… Didn’t we make another promise? We said, once the dust finally cleared… we’d talk. Right? …I remember that, too. There was one more thing. You probably don’t remember this one, so I’ll just say it again.           
Arist fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Oct 3, 2022 |
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Oct 3, 2022 20:43
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Nenji has the best scene in the entire epilogue. It’s just so pure and devoid of weird romantic hangups. Also, I don’t know why, but BJ’s “Hey” kills me. Like after all this time, and after so much pain and suffering, and even after sacrificing himself, the second he’s brought back he’s just super chill. It’s great.
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Oct 3, 2022 22:04
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The AIs seem to have a done a poor job educating the kids if they're all still behaving like teens.
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Oct 3, 2022 22:12
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One of BJ's lines has Miura's photo. And in regards to the pairings, I do agree I would have liked it if not EVERYONE was hitched, but when there's only 15 people on the entire planet and you're all horny teens it does make sense they'd all marry.
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Oct 3, 2022 22:44
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The most important thing is that they absolutely can and absolutely should build Miwako the perfect boyfriend.
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Oct 3, 2022 23:13
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Miwako's boyfriend is Roko's Basilisk and has been manipulating the timelines to ensure his own birth
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Oct 3, 2022 23:21
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I really do love that the game so strongly rejects the "but they're AI, so they're not real people" thing. Miwako deserves the world. (And I'm a gigantic sap and really loved that they gave pretty much everyone a happy ending, even the adults from loops ago.) They should have left Ida to rot though.
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Oct 4, 2022 01:16
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Jen X posted:They should have left Ida to rot though. It's hosed. He wanted to start a new loop so he could have a fresh Tomi who didn't know any of his plans and couldn't reject them. Miyuki Inaba was disposable.
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Oct 4, 2022 01:46
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I loved this epilogue, even if I do agree on the whole "pairing everyone off" thing. Though, I do think the game did a pretty good job of establishing all the pairings. Man, gently caress Ida though. He literally caused like, half of the problems in this drat game, (especially poor Ryoko), and just gets to go be with his AI girlfriend for the rest of time? Actually, you could argue that AN Ida caused almost ALL the problems of this game, his original version being the one to cause 2188-Ryoko to mess with the Deimos code. Some bull right there.
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Oct 4, 2022 13:22
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Isn't half the characters either responsible for a mass extinction, an attempted mass extinction, mass murder, or some serial murder in the 2188 era?
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Oct 4, 2022 14:18
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kw0134 posted:Isn't half the characters either responsible for a mass extinction, an attempted mass extinction, mass murder, or some serial murder in the 2188 era? We never are told which sided with Hijiyama and which with Juro, so theoretically everyone was involved with that shootout. Except Megumi I would imagine.
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Oct 4, 2022 14:44
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SloppyDoughnuts posted:We never are told which sided with Hijiyama and which with Juro, so theoretically everyone was involved with that shootout. Except Megumi I would imagine. I think that there's a line somewhere at some point that talks about there only being 8 survivors by the time of the shootout, and that Ida and Ryoko are the only survivors after that point. I could be mis-remembering, but I think it's safe to assume that if nothing else that Morimura is dead by this point, and I don't get the sense that Ei was expecting to survive that encounter anyway, since the shootout happened as a result of the fallout of Ei blowing up the reactor.
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Oct 4, 2022 16:56
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Ace Transmuter posted:The most important thing is that they absolutely can and absolutely should build Miwako the perfect boyfriend.  Although there's no need to build him, Gouto is already out of the pods.
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Oct 4, 2022 17:40
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| # ? May 2, 2024 11:14 |
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Yeah I'm fine with everyone getting a happy ending with the exception of Ida, who really should've been punished or left fully dead.
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Oct 4, 2022 17:41
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