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Special ratings that I've seen so far on Veteran: Stingers - gently caress these things, they're so small that you hardly notice they're there, and they fire like machine guns with 10 damage per shot. If they're around in a horde, someone's going down unless your sniper can get them with a good shot (and hope that everyone else can push the zombies of them while they're sniping). Exploders - Eh. Not that scary, they're so huge you can see them coming a mile away, run for distance, then shoot them down. Ogre - My sniper with the extra damage against weaknesses mod 2-shotted it... It's also very easy to kite into trying to reach it's hand into a room while your teammates shoot it. Retches - Ew. By the time you've seen them they've probably already retched on you for a second or so which hurts. Bruisers - gently caress. Snitch - In theory these things are ok... in practice they're hidden behind trees etc so you can't even see them in time to shoot them before they bring a horde. Thing that stick on the wall until you go near in which they web you up - Not really much of a threat except in rushing situations. Crushers - Despite them locking a person down, they're actually not as bad as bruisers because they spend their time just choking a person. My team got until stage 5 before we collapsed, but overall, game seems fine to play so far. The only gripe I had was the land of eternal bruisers (stage 3). Also, some safe rooms have the first aid cabinet, some don't. Stage 5 didn't have it which was a pain since the ferry level was hell.
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Aug 7, 2021 08:42
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The designers seem to want you to advance in perfect party formation, constantly aware of 360 and clearing each others backs to avoid getting swarmed. Its like someone considered L4D/Vermintides wide arc, nonlethal shove to be "cheating", or too easy. DRG too has its once per 30 second power attack that splatters trash. Like it or not, players expect it now.
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Aug 7, 2021 09:50
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Skyarb posted:I think it speaks mountains to how many people want another good L4D type game that so many people are giving this dumpster fire a pass. Define “so many people,” because this game seems pretty doomed to flop.
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Aug 7, 2021 10:12
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I just think it's a bit sad they've had a decade to think up how to build on and improve the formula since L4D2 and all they've come up with is weapon attachments and the card system (which are both fine as long as the card system isn't baked into microtransactions), and they've removed campaign versus. Like....couldn't they have been a bit more bold and imaginative? FWIW I think the game is just fine and will play it a bit thanks to Game Pass, but it feels like it could have been more than it is.
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Aug 7, 2021 10:41
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Bardeh posted:I just think it's a bit sad they've had a decade to think up how to build on and improve the formula since L4D2 and all they've come up with is weapon attachments and the card system (which are both fine as long as the card system isn't baked into microtransactions), and they've removed campaign versus. Like....couldn't they have been a bit more bold and imaginative? FWIW I think the game is just fine and will play it a bit thanks to Game Pass, but it feels like it could have been more than it is. On the other side of the spectrum, this could also have worked very well as basically L4D2++. If they'd basically made a near carbon copy but polished the gently caress out of it with everything tuned just so and incorporating lessons learned from the other games, that could've gone great. But it doesn't quite deliver that, either. It's not terribly janky, but certainly not particularly polished or evolved either. As it stands currently, the PvE side of things looks to end up pretty solidly 7/10. Not bad, but certainly far short of what could have been.
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Aug 7, 2021 10:50
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Has there ever been a truly faithful, actually successful spiritual successor? The nostalgiaheads think they want the same game but with new graphics, but they don't. What they actually want is for it to feel like it did the first time again.
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Aug 7, 2021 11:13
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I tried this out last night and I have to say, I am in agreement with most of the thread on it being "ok". The deckbuilding is kind of a "wtf how does this actually work" thing. The "hordes" as stated are literally 2 dozen zombies that a single person who actually knows how to play shooters can down by themselves. The match I played I ran ahead kind of just clearing the map on my own while my team lagged behind me saying "bro don't run off or you'll die". I cleared everything and got to the saferoom without much problem. Overall it's likely going to be a pass for me, really not what I expect in a spiritual successor to L4D. I'm sure it's a fine game for someone who's never played the L4D series, but really lacks the meat of what makes the series what it was.
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Aug 7, 2021 13:49
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sounds like you just want to hate it to me
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Aug 7, 2021 14:20
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idk why everyone seems to be having such a hard time understanding the deck stuff. Choose a bonus at the end of every stage through your choice of cards. Create a custom deck so you can specialize in melee or going fast or healing your teammates.
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Aug 7, 2021 14:20
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Mendrian posted:I think the game is pretty fun, and I am sort of lol'ing at the extreme visceral reaction to the game at this point but then again I don't really think the game is finished. That might be naïve of me but I don't really mind being disappointing either, I'll react when it happens. After spending a few hours last night playing the beta I feel about the same way. I am actually having a lot of fun with it so far but I do have a few gripes myself. From what I can tell you can not move attachments from one gun to another, also I hate everything about the card system and wish they would simply get rid of the whole thing entirely. Also is it just me or are weapons seriously unbalanced? I feel like the rifles and the regular sidearms (handguns) are the only ones that are really viable. I've tried using shotguns and sniper rifles and from what I've seen they are pretty useless... The game for sure needs a lot of balancing... The game also has a certain level of "generic-ness" that other people have pointed out ITT. There have been times where I feel like I'm playing a Chinese free to play ripoff of a more successful game... If anyone here every played any of the free to play games on ijji.com back in the day (like Guns: The Duel) you know what I'm talking about. That's not to say that the game is bad or not fun, I've put down serious time in free to play games on ijji, but if you were expecting the kind of polish and
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Aug 7, 2021 14:42
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It's the opposite of TF2, where you don't even need one of the iconic characters in the screenshot to know what game is being played. It's all competently done but with no colour or design flair.
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Aug 7, 2021 14:53
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Senethro posted:It's the opposite of TF2, where you don't even need one of the iconic characters in the screenshot to know what game is being played. It's all competently done but with no colour or design flair. The game is 100% finished imo yeah. I just hope they add an update to balance the weapons because only like 2 of them are actually fun to use.
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Aug 7, 2021 15:15
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64bit_Dophins posted:Also is it just me or are weapons seriously unbalanced? I feel like the rifles and the regular sidearms (handguns) are the only ones that are really viable. I've tried using shotguns and sniper rifles and from what I've seen they are pretty useless... The game for sure needs a lot of balancing... All of the weapons are fine except the sniper rifles make no sense. The non-AA12 shotguns are a little lacking but they certainly work, plus you need to diversify ammo types in anything past easy mode or you will always be out. I’m just not entirely sure when the game is supposed to be fun. I mean I already have a pretty low tolerance for PVE shooters, but there are definitely balancing issues for certain sections. I certainly can’t justify the $60 price tag at this point.
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Aug 7, 2021 15:35
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VulgarandStupid posted:All of the weapons are fine except the sniper rifles make no sense. The non-AA12 shotguns are a little lacking but they certainly work, plus you need to diversify ammo types in anything past easy mode or you will always be out. I am a pretty cheap date with these kinds of games. I agree though I think this would make a killer free to play game or even something that's like $15 that you could just play through with a friends group 2-3 times but $60??? Yeah no way haha.
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Aug 7, 2021 15:38
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I think a sniper rifle is very good at the higher difficulties. A good player can hold off most of the specials and give some breathing room for the other players. Also a secondary shotgun is excellent with a fast reload mod
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Aug 7, 2021 15:41
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Pirate Jet posted:Define “so many people,” because this game seems pretty doomed to flop. Have you been reading some of the posts in this very thread lol
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Aug 7, 2021 15:57
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I got a key and 3 friend invite keys from Twitch, been having an okay time playing coop with them also the cross platform is nice to get console friends in. But this game feels like it should be free to play, £50 is hilarious, they can gently caress right off. I wonder if it's hubris, or just an attempt at cashing in on pre-orders before they cancel all future content.
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Aug 7, 2021 16:22
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Some of the hot takes on this game in this thread are beyond embarrassing
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Aug 7, 2021 16:37
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kcer posted:sounds like you just want to hate it to me Not really, I went into it pretty excited to give it a try and came out with a soggy pancake feeling. I neither like nor hate it. I am mostly ambivalent about it and realize it's not for me. (speaking as someone who has over 800 hours combined playtime between L4D and L4D2) ModeSix fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Aug 7, 2021 |
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Aug 7, 2021 16:42
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I played about an hour and a half before I turned it off because I got bored. I can't quite put my finger on why but it just isn't grabbing my interest. Simply no chance I'd ever get it at the asking price. It did make me wanna reinstall Vermintide 2 though.
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Aug 7, 2021 16:48
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Senethro posted:It's the opposite of TF2, where you don't even need one of the iconic characters in the screenshot to know what game is being played. It's all competently done but with no colour or design flair. This in spades. Nothing really stood out to me as particularly memorable. In both L4D you had characters that really had personality, map pieces that people loved or dreaded, infected sounds that really identified what was lurking. This just lacks all of that. Absolutely competently done as you said. 
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Aug 7, 2021 16:49
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For what it's worth the game is going to be on Gamepass on release so I'll definitely at least try it then, but yeah not gonna pay 60$ for the beta access It looks like the group I was watching spent a fair amount of time just blowing through Normal mode grinding out some cards to try and make Nightmare more doable and it appears to have worked
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Aug 7, 2021 16:51
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:but yeah not gonna pay 60$ for the beta access You can get into the beta by having specific twitch streams on mute in a background tab for an hour. You don't need to preorder.
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Aug 7, 2021 16:56
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Just go to the website and put your email in.
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Aug 7, 2021 16:57
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I think this game could be good, but it 100% seems like the kind of the game to never play with randoms. Getting to the safe room for the other three people to just run out and go back through the entire level to try to find loot is just exhausting to sit through. Also they really need to shorten the campaign lengths, is it seriously 8 levels per campaign??
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Aug 7, 2021 17:26
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dracula vladdy AF posted:I think this game could be good, but it 100% seems like the kind of the game to never play with randoms. Getting to the safe room for the other three people to just run out and go back through the entire level to try to find loot is just exhausting to sit through. Watching streams that seems to be the thing. I respect GTFO and I'm glad it exists, but I will 100% never play it. All I wanted was L4D with some dumb progression to keep coming back and this looks like more of a sweaty-on-the-mics game the way Vermintide 2 is.
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Aug 7, 2021 18:28
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Mega Comrade posted:I played about an hour and a half before I turned it off because I got bored. I can't quite put my finger on why but it just isn't grabbing my interest. Simply no chance I'd ever get it at the asking price. Come play VT2 the free Chaos Wastes dlc is hella fun.
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Aug 7, 2021 18:33
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Sgt. Cosgrove posted:It'll get some traffic once betas are out there, hopefully more good posts than bad. I feel like i gave a LOT of notes from the last playtest, hope they took feedback to heart. Did they?
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Aug 7, 2021 20:49
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Senethro posted:Has there ever been a truly faithful, actually successful spiritual successor? The nostalgiaheads think they want the same game but with new graphics, but they don't. What they actually want is for it to feel like it did the first time again. My kids, who were infants back in the Goon4Dead heyday, have taken to playing L4D2 with their friends during the pandemic and I've played along with them a few times. Still feels the same as it did back then (even when they usually ditch me when I get downed), and from the couple hours of B4B I played last night, it really feels like something in the gameplay is missing. I think the main thing is that the guns don't feel right.
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Aug 7, 2021 21:06
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Mega Comrade posted:You can get into the beta by having specific twitch streams on mute in a background tab for an hour. You don't need to preorder. Or, just go to the Alienware site someone linked a page or two ago and you'll have a key in two minutes, no fuss.
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Aug 7, 2021 21:07
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Had our game softlock because it turns out even bots need to be in the saferoom at the end to count, and ours was stuck at a tow truck event about 2 miles back and had lost the ability to teleport, apparently.
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Aug 7, 2021 21:27
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I'm enjoying it more as I play more and unlock more cards. poo poo really starts to get a bit nuts in the second section after the boat. I like that the enemy cards change up the runs and once you get the opportunity to use a bunch of your cards as you progress through a campaign they start to feel a lot more impactful. Have they said how microtransactions are going to work because if they're putting the cards behind a huge grind that can be skipped by paying then that's pretty much P2W, and I'm kinda worried that it looks like the system is set up to work like that.
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Aug 8, 2021 00:16
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Is the Admin reload in the beta? I got it in Versus mode but didn’t see it in Campaign yet.
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Aug 8, 2021 00:32
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I've gone through vet a couple of times now, main concerns. 1. It absolutely shits on you if you try to go through veteran first, but survivor is so piss easy that i hated going through it. 2. It's really not that good at getting information across to you. Examples: Most specials have variants, but they all kinda sound the same. They just gurgle. There's nothing unique about it. The spitter/hocker are the main offender here. The bird radius seems to just occasionally go "gently caress you" and go off anyway, etc. 3. The sound is loving terrible. L4D had clear audio cues. You'd hear a witch before you got to it, here the snitch just kinda silently walks up to you. That being said I do like the game, its just not as good as L4D, which is hilarious considering how old that game is.
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Aug 8, 2021 00:47
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The sound and enemy differentiation are definately on my shortlist of problems that I think can be solved before release.
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Aug 8, 2021 01:04
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WattsvilleBlues posted:Did they? I gave a lot of feedback during B4B Alpha and virtually every piece of feedback I gave was unchanged; infact, the game is largely no different between Alpha and Beta which in a 7-month window, is pretty worrying. Almost all the structural problems I observed are still here and skeptical that we'll see anything substantial given the game comes out real soon. It's not ready, and easily needs another 6+ months in the oven but welp, thats game development. I'll summarize a lot of things that I'm seeing with the beta. The game is very uneven but not in an interesting way. Turtle Rock is desperately trying to go "NONONO u guys!! this is TOTALLY not L4D3, we've moved beyond such a petty proletariat outdated game and we've built our own NEW GAME!" by then piling on a bunch of poo poo that sometimes works, sometimes doesn't; while also carrying a lot of L4D elements because that's all they know how to do. A good example of this, and is already talked to death about, is Specials: In L4D1/2, Specials existed as spoilers for certain player/team tactics and to punish on mistakes, positioning, and force them to adjust their play-style. They all had very unique sounds, cues, models, and were drip-fed very carefully with thought into the levels. Specials in B4B are just dogshit and only felt like they were added because well, thats what you gotta add right? They all look mostly similar, mostly like poo poo, and many are barely recognizable or look too much the same. They don't serve the finely-honed purpose of those in L4D. And either they're trivial in this (i.e. 3/4th of them), or complete bullshit (constantly getting bile-spewed through walls, bile-sniped through walls, and every single thing to do with the Bruiser). Seriously the Bruiser sucks rear end to play against and they throw that at you an enormously out-sized percentage of the time. I'd say like 80% of the Specials that we encounter are solely Bruisers and most likely to wipe; and in Vet/Nightmare it was just tedious how frequently you fight them for no apparent reason other than to make game "hard". They desperately needed to rework them after the Alpha and they did not. Levels: Act 1 is unchaanged and boring as hell. It's a complete snoozefest even on hardest up until the yacht and then it turns into bullshit non-stop special spawn, until you get across to the machinegun side and then it gets easy, but that initial Yacht part is really uneven. I will say they did fix the Alpha problem where specials were spawning 10-at a time the entire time you're trying to even plant bombs, so that's nice. But for an introductory level, it's a terrible one. Act 2 however is a massive improvement, its more atmospheric, it looks better, and has more actual interesting mini-events. If future Acts are more like Act 2, that'll be a pleasant surprise, but that Act 1 has stood as it is is real sad and that we're only starting with 4 Acts is going to seriously hurt and probably right there put a significantly damper on the game in terms of replayability and keeping it interesting -- i'm sure will be added as "Free DLC/Updates" but I've been burt enough on CEO galaxy-brained GaaS concepts that I'm not going to trust it to deliver. Difficult: Seconding that Survivor is just so easy it's boring, but also the level-to-level difficulty curve is extremely uneven, we could steamroll on Nightmare up until One Particular Spot gets us biled through a wall and bruiser spawns in right behind us. Like even on hardest, Act 1 up until the yacht gets repetitive due to how easy it is. Meanwhile Act 2 is generally okay but then throws some real lovely fights or the infinite spawn road. Graphics: Aside from Act 1, it's a decent looking game but nothing special. Kinda feels more like a 2017. The one big problem is that enemy models look really crappy in this. Cards: They're fine but don't really change the game up until you get the more interesting ones (double primaries, unlimited secondary, healing share, accuracy but no ADS, etc) stuff in which you can build around them. Corrupted Cards are mostly ignorable and boring and feels like they made them weaker/less interesting from the Alpha. Nothing about them really shakes up the game at this time, you mostly just continue playing as you normally do. They should really engage with these more to change up the game. Guns: So I would not consider balance a structural problem, those issues are things easy to address in patches and will probably see guns re-worked in this. But as it stands most shotguns and sniper rifles and even some SMGs are pretty bad. AA-12 is the only good shotgun and sniping is quite uneven but it's good to have something that can pluck out Spitters from a distance assuming you're not currently being swarmed and got a bruiser on you. But that kinda leds to my next problem is the Attachments Also who the gently caress thought it was a good idea to have Slot #2 as the first on your HUD? The game makes it very very easy for you to confuse which weapon you have out or want to swap to and I witnessed players constantly losing their guns by accidentally swapping out the wrong one and not realizing it. Same goes for attachments in this. Attachments and slotting them in/out is reall loving clunky and unlikely to change; and an even greater problem is that Scopes are horrible in this game. Like an actual straight up negative to get an 2X/4X scope on a gun and you cant get rid of it. It takes too long to scope in and detrimental with how much will be in your face on Nightmare. The reflex/ACOD or Iron sights is good enough to snipe anything from a distance with how close everything is in LOS. Just the attachment system in general feels real messy. On the pro-side, most guns generally felt pretty good to shoot even if effectiveness was questionable; although they all kinda look very similar to each other with some exceptions. The non-universal ammo wasn't really a good change but not awful either. It exists, but I dont think it adds to the game and felt like they put it in solely to go "see see we're totally not L4D! we did something NEW!". Melee in this was improved from the alpha but it gets into a larger problem is I witnessed some amount of rubber-banding and sliding, in addition to phantom hits and very poor model/hit registration or hit feedback. A lot of the common just kinda slide and hit you with maybe a paw to the hit. Push in this is also much weaker than it was in other games and kinda feels bad but you still have to do it at times. It's certainly useful though at times. But again most shooting zombies has uninteresting feedback and mostly just fall over or sometimes heads explode. The game would feel a whole lot better with some Dead Space / RE2 dismemberment or more visual staggering and feedback to when you hit a shot or smack someone or not. Versus: Completely loving terrible and an absolutely waste of developer's time to even make this flaming dumpster of a game mode. It appeals to no one and should have saved the 6+ months of work and skipped it; or done it properly. Everyone I spoke to playing it in B4B hated it and weren't going to play it again. Everyone from L4D2 is going to hate this and it's absolutely DOA. Even Battlefield 5's Firestorm mode, a massive bellyflop waste of time, has nothing on how stupid this is Not going to say anything about bugs because it's a beta, and those aren't really structural problems but there definitely are some connectivity/disconnect issues and other oddities but I expect those will be fixed. I want this game to be good, but I have a feeling it's going to be dead in 6-months and I expect a lot of the problems will still be there. I'll be playing it from Game Pass while it's fresh but I doubt i'm going to stick to it like I have with Deep Rock Galactic or Vermintide 2 or even previously L4D1/2.
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Aug 8, 2021 05:28
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As someone who played entirely too many hundreds of hours of versus in l4d and l4d2 I did not have too much hope going into this based on how much the devs talk up all the systems that randomize every playthrough, and boy did they deliver. It's got basically every crap fps gimmick of the past 20 years haphazardly tacked on to the l4d formula and does nothing to explain any of them. The lack of campaign versus is just the icing on the cake.
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Aug 8, 2021 05:31
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Swilo posted:As someone who played entirely too many hundreds of hours of versus in l4d and l4d2 I did not have too much hope going into this based on how much the devs talk up all the systems that randomize every playthrough, and boy did they deliver. It's got basically every crap fps gimmick of the past 20 years haphazardly tacked on to the l4d formula and does nothing to explain any of them. I've said before I have no interest in VS and I don't completely understand the raw anger fans feel forwards Swarm mode but otoh I don't know who the gently caress it was designed for because it's not for me and it's not for the VS fans so I'm real confused who they thought their audience was. Odd question: How does Quickplay actually like... work? Sometimes I spawn in, pick a bot to possess, finish the level, and get the pick a character, a deck, and draw X number of cards, where X is presumably the number of draws I 'missed'. Other times, I join game, possess bot, finish level... and then continue playing the same character, with some kind of phantom default deck that is not one I would ever choose on purpose with cards I have never added to a deck. Also, I feel like I always join in 4x2 or 4x3, I assume that's where everybody quits for some reason?
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Aug 8, 2021 07:39
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Mendrian posted:I've said before I have no interest in VS and I don't completely understand the raw anger fans feel forwards Swarm mode Personally I don't particularly care much, L4D Versus was fun in it's own right and unique and it was good that it existed because the era of asymmetric pvp games had largely evaporated; and it also required being more in a mood instead of slamming back beers and lazily shooting zombies. but it's such an absurdly stupid waste of everyone's time (devs, players) to even bother with this joke mode. They shouldn't have even bothered.
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Aug 8, 2021 08:00
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Evolved had 2K as it's publisher and this game has WB so i don't know if Turtle Rock just keeps getting picked up by lovely publishers that do lovely monetization on top of a good base game or if L4D was mostly a fluke because they had help from Valve at the time.
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Aug 8, 2021 08:10
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