GoldStandardConure posted:

*relaxes in west australian*

GoldStandardConure posted:

its campaign season, i haven't relaxed for months

i am protesting greyhound racing for new years eve because i am such an exciting person

GoldStandardConure posted:

even loving covid isn't going to stop me from stealing this election from mcgowan!!!

norp posted:

Fortress WA wants to hear your rumours

Eediot Jedi posted:

McGowan: deploy the emus.

The Artificial Kid posted:

Well the problem isn't for any one person, it's imposing the cost (and inconvenience) on 5 million people in a state that had 3 positives from 32,000 tests in the previous 24 hour period. Even if you assume that those 32,000 tests were nothing but a random sample of the population (rather than a sample biased towards people with symptoms or exposure), that would still only be 1:10,000 people, but in reality the flat case counts over the last couple of weeks on a background of very extensive and widespread testing suggest that pretty much all cases are being captured as they emerge (otherwise they'd be setting off more runaway outbreaks and generating ever-growing numbers of cases).

Like I said, I would never refuse to mask up, or recommend that someone else not mask up. I'm not even really against mandatory masking, I just think we should stay rational. I'm not convinced that mandatory masking is a necessary, life-changing measure for NSW right now. (Edit - and just to be clear if the NSW government imposed mandatory masking I also wouldn't be actively objecting to that).

I also suspect this debate is contaminated by the huge importance of masks in other parts of the world. Masks have become a symbolic and needlessly politicised issue in countries where they're desperately needed. But Australia has a pretty good COVID toolbox, and masks haven't necessarily been a huge part of it, not because masks don't have their value, but because Australia has successfully deployed much bigger guns (border control, lockdowns and contact tracing) that many other countries have failed or been unable to use.
I agree completely with the principal you're talking about, but in NSW with its contact tracing system, will it go 10 --> 100 --> 1000? It didn't after the Crossroads cluster, and since the Northern Beaches outbreak began so far numbers have been reassuringly flat (noisy, but not skyrocketing over time). Widespread testing, including exhortations for anyone, anywhere with any symptoms to get tested have so far failed to turn up lots of disconnected cases that would suggest a hidden epidemic all over the city/state.

The Artificial Kid posted:

What needs to be proved here is that masks would prevent a lot of seasonal flu. Lockdowns and increased hand hygiene are also hugely responsible for the reduction in flu burden this year, possibly much more so than the sporty mask use that NSW has seen.

freebooter posted:

What isn't sensible is calculating the cost of masks as spread over the public as a whole in comparison with the ~*~Economic Impact~*~ of further cases and an outbreak growing, unless you're a policy wonk sitting in the Treasury basement with a calculator and a spreadsheet. I don't give a gently caress about the $20-$30 I spent on a bunch of reuseable masks earlier this year and I don't give a gently caress about Australia's GDP growth for the next quarter. I do give a gently caress about whether I can continue safely living my day-to-day life and visit family interstate again.

The Artificial Kid posted:

I never called for a strictly financial analysis. Financial cost is just one component of a cost-benefit analysis. But the inconvenience of masks is pretty small, and pretty hard to quantify, and the negative health impacts are likely negligible (unless someone discovers that they cause crippling depression or PTSD or something). I've never heard of a healthcare worker who "couldn't wear a mask" at work.

The Artificial Kid posted:

Well, if it cost everyone an average of 10c per day (which I think is a very conservative estimate), and went on for six weeks, that would be $22 million. How many cases will it prevent? That's very hard to estimate, but if we imagine that the current test-and-trace program is on track to eliminate the outbreak after another 100 cases, and the masks bring it down to 50 cases, then that's $500,000 per case.

But how much does masking actually cost? The first information available on google suggests that that a decent reusable mask will cost around $20 https://www.finder.com.au/reusable-face-mask-cost-analysis + shipping (which might be shared). I don't have any better information to hand (I've only used disposable masks because that's what I'm used to).

So that brings our cost over 6 weeks up to about 50c/day, or $2.5 million per case avoided in the above scenario.

Now the true number of cases avoided might be higher or lower, the actual cost of masks might be higher or lower, but there are very realistic scenarios where universal masking might be a poor use of money.

The Artificial Kid posted:

What factors do you want to specifically introduce into the analysis to shatter my [sarcasm]rock solid conclusion[/sarcasm] that masks may or may not be a cost-efficient intervention? Are there amazing benefits to masks other than preventing the spread of respiratory illnesses? Do they put a spring in every step and a song in every heart? Do they prevent osteoarthritis or lower infant mortality? What are the non-financial factors that you think are desperately missing from my internet forum comment that universal masking might or might not be a financially expensive way to prevent cases in a low-case environment where effective contact tracing is in play?

Megillah Gorilla posted:

So many people have never heard that high pitch tones will not wake kids and smoke alarm manufacturers sure as hell aren't making any particular effort to educate people that their products do not work for the most vulnerable age bracket.

Serrath posted:

I don’t know how else to explain my point but to try to rephrase it

Comparing masks to colonoscopies or serial ECGs to mask wearing can never be a reasonable comparison because we have broad epidemiological data and enough is known about colon cancer and heart attacks to input into our health calculus to make decisions. If you know the incidence of a disease, the cost borne to the health system from that disease both treated and untreated, average number of years saved/lost, and other parameters, you can work out costs per life saved and make health decisions about what broad screening tests you should be applying.

You don’t know these things about coronavirus. We know the number of Pap smears we need to do in order to save one life. It is impossible to know how many masks will equal one life saved. You mentioned that countries with higher incidence of coronavirus should prioritize masks more than Australia but the incubation period of the virus means that we have no way of knowing how many undiagnosed infections we have out there. Perhaps the 8 cases they caught today is the worst of it and we’re on the way to having this controlled... or perhaps these 8 are just the first to declare themselves after we did a great job of ignoring health advice as we celebrated Christmas and New Years.

Any good prevention measure is cheap, easy to use, and easy to distribute to the community. We’re not talking about invasive medical devices that cost thousands of dollars per person but we are talking about a measure that can add an extra level of safety in case our existing measures fail.

JBP posted:

Nah I get it.

Also I understand turning off the comments because it could be the nicest and best ever ad and still have the algorithm display only the most horrendous top comments.

SBS Australia posted:

Detainees at Christmas Island Detention Centre started rioting on Tuesday night, with footage appearing to show at least one building burning and a number of people up on the roof.

In one video of the incident shared on social media, a man is heard saying: "This is how frustrated people are".

"They are burning the roof. They are sick and tired of being treated like s***," he says.

"Arab people, white people, African people, they're sick and tired of Peter Dutton and Scott Morrison, the Prime Minister of Australia, they're treating us like a dog."

the independant posted:

The UK’s drug regulator has rejected claims by Australia’s prime minister, Scott Morrison, that it is not testing the safety of each batch of the Covid-19 vaccine.

Mr Morrison suggested Britain was “cutting corners” with safety checks, as he tried to explain why Australia had not yet begun its vaccination programme.

“They’re not testing batches of vaccines before they’re disseminated across the population, is my understanding,” he told the 3AW radio station when asked about the British roll-out – which has seen 1.3 million people get the jab over the past four weeks.

He also argued that Australia was not facing an “emergency” in rising case numbers and hospitalisations like the UK. “So we don’t have to cut corners. We don’t have to take unnecessary risks,” said Mr Morrison.

Urcher posted:

Scott Morrison put it poorly but is on the right track about Australia taking the safety of the vaccine more seriously than other countries that are doing faster rollouts.

Here's a thread from the chair of the advisory committee on vaccines that gives some detail

https://twitter.com/peripatetical/status/1346036208116269059

Lid posted:

https://twitter.com/MayorDarcy/status/1347275712726618112

We need our own purge.

CelestialScribe posted:

Thanks, I'm no longer the worst person in this thread

GoldStandardConure posted:

same except to stop (more) skin cancer

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

Lid posted:

I appreciate there are a lot of people out there who are being a bit bleeding heart about this, and who are confecting outrage, but they should know that those lives matter too. All lives matter.

Any form of violence, any form of protest that ends in death and destruction is abhorred, The United States goes through great change but any form of protest, whether it is a protest over racial riots or what we have seen on Capitol Hill in recent days is condemned and abhorred.

Breakfast Burrito posted:

i mean if my last name was the n word i probably would but that's just me

Guardian Au posted:

The New South Wales government has spent less than $13m of its $50m rescue package for arts organisations hit by the Covid-19 shutdown.

When the scheme was first announced almost six months ago, the NSW government said the $50m Rescue and Restart funding would be distributed in two rounds.

With the second round of grant applications now open to access $30.1m, almost $7m remains formally unaccounted for by the NSW government from the emergency scheme.

...

Guardian Australia has been told by a number of arts organisations that they were instructed by the NSW government not to reveal publicly how much emergency funding they received under the Rescue and Restart scheme.

When Guardian Australia asked the office of the arts minister Don Harwin in December why there appeared to be no publicly accessible data on grant recipients, a spokesperson said there were issues of commercial in confidence.

Guardian Australia posted:

Australia remains one of the world’s hotspots for deforestation according to a new report by WWF, which finds an area six times the size of Tasmania has been cleared globally since 2004.

The analysis identifies 24 “deforestation fronts” worldwide where a total of 43 million hectares of forest was destroyed in the period from 2004 until 2017.

Australia is the only country in the developed world to appear on the list, with eastern Australia named alongside Colombia, Peru, Laos and Mozambique as locations with “medium” rates of deforestation.

The countries with high rates of deforestation include Brazil, Bolivia, Madagascar and Borneo.

...

“Land-clearing rates rocketed after the axing of restrictions in Queensland and NSW placing eastern Australia alongside the most infamous places in the world for forest destruction,” WWF-Australia conservation scientist Martin Taylor said.

Megillah Gorilla posted:

Megillah Gorilla posted:

Sometimes I can go a whole week without remembering why I hate that smarmy gently caress, Scott Morrison.

Then I remember, oh, it's because of every single thing he's ever done.

The Peccadillo posted:

Labor sucks so loving bad Jesus christ why would you be a debt freak now of all times you loser

https://twitter.com/SenKatyG/status/1349944399275421700

Homora Gaykemi posted:

What does your heart tell you?

Megillah Gorilla posted:

If businesses don't pay taxes in Australia, they might leave and not pay taxes somewhere else.

And then where would we be?

TheLastRoboKy posted:

Tennis the Menace

froglet posted:

That last one you get by voting Greens.

Another important one is raising the dole. Employers would have to raise wages if there was a pool of prospective workers who weren't having to take whatever job is going because the dole is below the poverty line.

Megillah Gorilla posted:

So, UBI then?

I mean, I'm certainly not arguing with you here. I'm 100% behind the idea of a UBI set at a liveable level. I also can never see it happening in this country as long as we have the LNP and the Murdoch press dedicated to causing needless suffering to the majority of the country in the name of profits and ideological purity.

And cruelty.

Animal Friend posted:

MAYBE LEAVE THREAD from qld coast

ungulateman posted:

"the people on the boats were also not having a good time" yes thank you scott morrison the first fleet (comprised mostly of navy members and the aristocracy) definitely had it just as hard as my genocided ancestors

like, i even have a decent amount of sympathy for how absolutely terribly the convicts were treated, that doesn't somehow make their behaviour acceptable! this isn't complicated!

The Peccadillo posted:

There should be a rolling lottery where someone just gets to be the Australian royal family for a bit. Like some dude in Bungendore is just the king now. His house is the royal palace, half torn up tiles in the bathroom be damned his home is the palace he is the crown voice of god on earth and his children are living saints. No consultation

Guardian Au posted:

PM can't comment on Margaret Court's Australia Day honour
Morrison on Margaret Court set to be awarded an Australia Day honour:

"I can’t comment on an award that’s done through an independent process that hasn’t been announced or I have no official knowledge of ...
This is a completely independent set of processes.
It is an announcement that will be announced on that day. It is a system that recognises the full spectrum of individuals across this country."

Malcolm Turnbeug posted:

tbh I think i would be happy anywhere except new zealand

Konomex posted:

They cared the last 2 times the libs tried to push this poo poo through, but suddenly radio silence from Labor?

crepeface posted:

Mark McGowan is asked to respond to Peter Dutton’s criticism of the WA lockdown: