multidenominational witchcraft thread: because demonocracy has succeeded

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Bilirubin: Feb 16, 2014; The sanctioned action is to CHUG

Squizzle posted:

and after a decade of saying that no one needs a book on nyc because everyone is already familiar we it via its cultural presence, white wolf published new york by nite w a street date of like a week before 9/11. justin achilli, the vampire dev, got real wound up about people talking about how particular current events could fit into the world of darkness and posted some all caps thread title like THIS IS NOT A GAME to tell people to stop speculating about how the lasombra downed flight 93 or w/e. didnt help that they were right in the middle of their middle east themed “year of the scarab”

9/11 presented unique challenges to white wolf

just like 3 Body Problem

# ? Mar 10, 2024 01:28

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 23:56

Squizzle: Apr 24, 2008

you mean the three bodhisattvas who fought the ravnos antediluvian, leading the technocracy to use orbital solar focusing mirrors and spirit nukes, causing the avatar storms to form in the gauntlet, as well as precipitating the week of nitemares??? that 3 body problem??

# ? Mar 10, 2024 01:45

aw frig aw dang it: Jun 1, 2018

Squizzle posted:

my ol memory was playing tricks on us all, because ny by nite came out in november and had an intro hastily added that was like “yeah we had this mostly ready when the while towers thing happened. it wont be mentioned in the rest of this book. god bless america????”

this book is the one that came out a week before 9/11:

check out the chapter titles!!!

lol badass

# ? Mar 10, 2024 01:51

Squizzle: Apr 24, 2008

i should clarify here that the technocracys spirit nukes are unrelated to the ghost nuke that xerxes jomes detonated right next to oblivion, nor the other scarcely-related ghost nuke that was employed to destroy the ghost city of enoch (where the true black hand dwelt, battling soul-eaters)—except that all three had the misfortune of being detonated w/in the same week. the ghost nukes, in fact, were detonated at about the same time (not intentionally), causing the sixth great mælstrom

but all otherwise wholly unrelated

# ? Mar 10, 2024 01:52

Bilirubin: Feb 16, 2014; The sanctioned action is to CHUG

Squizzle posted:

you mean the three bodhisattvas who fought the ravnos antediluvian, leading the technocracy to use orbital solar focusing mirrors and spirit nukes, causing the avatar storms to form in the gauntlet, as well as precipitating the week of nitemares??? that 3 body problem??

no

but I get how they can get confused

# ? Mar 10, 2024 01:57

Squizzle: Apr 24, 2008

3 bodhi problem

# ? Mar 10, 2024 03:01

BONGHITZ: Jan 1, 1970

https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Mortality

# ? Mar 10, 2024 05:48

Jazerus: May 24, 2011

Squizzle posted:

9/11 presented unique challenges to white wolf

# ? Mar 10, 2024 06:11

Sherbert Hoover: Dec 12, 2019; Working hard, thank you!

Squizzle posted:

3 bodhi problem

# ? Mar 10, 2024 07:33

Squizzle: Apr 24, 2008

# ? Mar 13, 2024 13:05

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

That's just an Australian bumfuck nowhere town landmark

# ? Mar 17, 2024 08:36

aw frig aw dang it: Jun 1, 2018

quote to charge, post to cast

# ? Mar 22, 2024 18:00

LITERALLY A BIRD: Sep 27, 2008; I knew you were trouble
when you flew in

aw frig aw dang it posted:

quote to charge, post to cast

# ? Mar 23, 2024 19:51

LITERALLY A BIRD: Sep 27, 2008; I knew you were trouble
when you flew in

# ? Mar 23, 2024 19:56

LITERALLY A BIRD: Sep 27, 2008; I knew you were trouble
when you flew in

I have been reading that "Drawing Down the Moon" book and it's good.

Drawing Down the Moon: Defining Magic in the Ancient Greco�-Roman World posted:

Proclus's description, in his treatise On Sacrifice and Magic, of what he calls the 'hieratic art' provides the best encapsulation of theurgic ritual from the ancient sources. The 'natural magic' of the Renaissance that forms the basis for much of the ideas of positive magic in the early modern and later periods comes from the reception of ancient ideas of theurgy, especially those of Proclus and his predecessor lamblichus. From the uses of the term in the ancient evidence, 'theurgy' may be defined as the art or practice of ritually creating a connection between the mortal, material world that is before one's eyes and the unseen, immortal world of the gods. Such a practice may be a lifelong assimilation of the individual soul to the divine, or it may be a momentary activation of the connection with divine power to achieve some more immediate end on earth.2 While theurgy, defined narrowly in modern scholarship, is often taken to be a particular set of ritual practices based in the revelations of the Chaldaean Oracles, the ancient evidence provides examples of theurgic practice that make no reference to this mysterious set of hexameter oracles.3 Nevertheless, 'theurgy' is not simply a label for any kind of ritual that practitioners want to distinguish from nonritual theology or philosophy, on the one hand, or from unacceptable magic, on the other.4 Although the ritual practices and the theological ideas underlying them shift from the time of the Chaldaean Oracles in the second century CE to the later Neoplatonists of the fourth and fifth centuries, theurgy always involves the activation of existing connections between mortal and immortal to bring the two together in some way or to some degree.

The word 'theurgy' is composed of two Greek terms: theos (god) and ergon (work), but it remains a subject of debate whether 'theurgy' should mean 'the work of the gods' or 'working on the gods.' Some of its defenders insist that the essence of theurgy is the gods reaching down to help mortals, while others critique theurgy as an attempt by mortals to force the gods to do work. Theurgy in any case is work or action involving the gods as well as humans, that is to say a religious ritual with corresponding actions in both the mortal and divine worlds. However, whereas normative religious action in the Greco-Roman world tends to involve just the human worshipper and the divine god in a sequence of reciprocal responses, theurgy, as it appears in the ancient evidence, attempts to bring the divine and mortal together, uniting the divine power with the human worshipper. This process of involves connecting elements of the cosmos at every level of being, from the lowest dregs of inanimate matter through the animal and human living creatures and up to the various kinds of divinities, including the very highest.

While the normative religion explored in the earlier chapter 6 on prayer involves a model of reciprocal gift exchange, theurgy is more like the creation of a circulatory system that lines up the connections between the various points in the system to allow the divine power to flow through. Although such a circulatory system was familiar in the ancient world from the famous Roman plumbing that created channels for the flow of water throughout the cities of the Greco-Roman world, the more modern analogy of an electric circuit is perhaps more apt for understanding theurgy, since it was often described as the flow of light, emanating down out the divine world and flowing back up through special channels to rejoin its source. The Byzantine commentator Psellos quotes one of the Chaldaean Oracles to describe such circulation. �Seek out the channel of the soul, from where it descended in a certain order to serve the body; and seek how you will raise it up again to its order by combining ritual action with a sacred word.�6 Like an engineer who seeks to line up all the wires and nodes of a circuit so that the power may flow through every part, the theurgist seeks to line up the mixture of materials, sacred words, and other parts of his or her ritual so that the divine power illuminates every element. Whereas alchemy is concerned primarily with the qualities of the material elements and astrology with the movements of the heavenly bodies, theurgy undertakes to bring them all together into one. Like astrology and alchemy, theurgy is closely connected with particular theorizations of the cosmos; these ideas of how it works mark the difference from normative religion, rather than why or even what things are done.

The Chaldaean Oracles, as well as other oracles of the sort cited in Porphyry�s Philosophy from Oracles, provide a source of direct divine revelation, a way of immediate connection between the divine and mortals. The oracles thus supply an important authority for theurgical practice, and many of the proponents of theurgy cite them in their explanations. In addition to Proclus�s work on sacrifice and magic, the treatise of Iamblichus responding to the questions of Porphyry about theurgy (known from the title given to it in the Renaissance, On the Mysteries of the Egyptians or de mysteriis) provides theoretical background for the practice of theurgy. The questions and critiques of Porphyry are taken up by later Christian critics, who likewise provide valuable evidence for understanding how theurgy was imagined in the ancient world. These thinkers, however, are primarily interested in how theurgy works, the shape of the whole system that undergirds it, rather than in the practical details of ritual performance. Evidence from some of the most complex spells of the Greek Magical Papyri provides insights into the ritual practice, illuminating the ideas of theurgy�s proponents while at the same time confirming some of the critiques of its detractors. From any of these perspectives, however, theurgy appears as magic, labeled as an �extra-ordinary ritual practice,� whether in a positive or negative sense.

2 Addey 2014: 24 stresses the ongoing aspect of theurgy. "Theurgy remains notoriously difficult to define, partly because ancient philosophers conceived of theurgy as a way of life or, strictly speaking, a way of being, as well as a nexus of ritual practices."
3 Cp. Johnston 1997: 165, who defines theurgy as "an esoteric, revelatory religion that took as its authoritative basis the Chaldean Oracles, dactylic-hexameter poems that were divinely dictated to the sect's leaders in the mid-second century CE." As Tanaseanu-D�bler 2013: 14 notes, however, "the text and the rituals need not go together... Discussing the development of theurgy requires us to differentiate between the reception of the Chaldean Oracles and their philosophical system on the one hand, and actual ritual practice on the other."
4 As Janowitz 2002: 17 would seem to suggest.
5 Tanaseanu-D�bler 2013 examines the shifting meanings of theurgy over this time period, noting however (13) that theurgy remains significant long afterwards, as it is adapted in the Byzantine and even Renaissance contexts.

Here's some stuff about Neoplatonism for all you folks who like Rome.

quote:

Theurgy Among the Elite

More information survives about the individual practitioners of theurgy than any other form of magic, because many of them were important members of the elite classes of the Roman Empire in the first several centuries of the Common Era. Many of the names associated with theurgy are connected with Roman emperors, while others are leaders of schools of philosophy; theurgy is for the educated and elite. Because such educated elites are the ones who practice theurgy, the evidence for this form of magic shows it to be more complicated and more highly theorized than other forms of magical practice.

The Chaldaean Oracles, which were cited as the most authoritative source for theurgical ideas and practices by the Neoplatonists, survive only in fragments in the quotations by those Neoplatonists. According to some of our later sources, the Chaldaean Oracles were produced through the inspiration of a certain Julian, called the Theurgist, who was the son of another Julian, called the Chaldaean. The younger Julian may have channeled the soul of Plato or have received the hexameter verse oracles directly from various gods, but his theurgical practices enabled him to receive the divine revelations that were collected, perhaps by his father, into the Chaldaean Oracles. The younger Julian is said to have gone with the Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius on campaign in 172 CE, where he conjured up a rainstorm to save the troops from thirst and fabricated a magical figure that hurled lightning bolts at the enemy whenever they came near.7 While the sources agree in placing Julian during the reign of Marcus Aurelius, it is much less clear where he and his father, the Chaldaean, came from. Athanassiadi speculates that the elder Julian may have been a priest at the famous temple of Bel in Apamea, a city in (current) Syria that would have been considered Chaldaean at the time. Apamea in the second century was the home of the Platonist philosopher Numenius, whose cosmology seems to resemble greatly that of the Chaldaean Oracles, as well as later of Iamblichus, the Neoplatonic philosopher whose (lost) commentary on the Chaldaean Oracles seems to have been the work that catapulted the Chaldaean Oracles into prominence among the Platonists.

Iamblichus and his predecessors Porphyry and Plotinus represent the first set of Platonic thinkers who show an interest in what Iamblichus calls �theurgy.� While the ideas of Middle Platonists such as Plutarch of Charoneia (46�120 CE), Apuleius of Madauros (c. 124�170 CE), and Numenius of Apamea (end of second century CE) provide parallels with the Chaldaean Oracles, the philosophy of Plotinus (205�269/270 CE) is generally taken to represent the shift from the understanding of Plato that characterized Middle Platonism to the complex systems of Neoplatonic thought. Plotinus shows an interest in ideas and techniques that resemble those of theurgy, although he never mentions the term, and modern scholars have debated whether he knew of the Chaldaean Oracles and theurgic practices.9 Plotinus�s pupil Porphyry (232�305 CE) wrote his master�s biography and arranged his works, but he also wrote a large number of treatises himself, including a study of Philosophy Drawn from Oracles, in which he apparently argued that (his brand of) Platonic philosophy was embedded in oracles that provide revelations from the gods themselves. This lost work survives in copious quotations by the Christian apologist Eusebius, who attacks the revelations from pagan gods and the whole system Porphyry derives from them. Another work of Porphyry�s, an attack on Christianity in fifteen books, was burned in 448 CE by order of Christian emperors, and almost nothing survives. Porphyry is said to have been the teacher of his younger contemporary Iamblichus (250�325 CE), and Iamblichus frames his de Mysteriis, the most important work on the theory of theurgy, as a response to Porphyry�s questions about theurgy.10

9 See Mazur 2003 and 2004 for the debates; Mazur argues controversially that Plotinus knew of theurgic practices and borrowed techniques for his own contemplative philosophy.
10 Addey 2014: 135 argues that Porphyry�s critiques, in his Letter to Anebo that Iamblichus quotes in his responses, are not actually a condemnation of theurgy, as they have often been understood, but rather his engagement in a philosophic debate with his colleague. �Rather than being a scathing attack on pagan religious practice, Porphyry�s Letter to Anebo functions within the dialogue tradition of a constructive, philosophical inquiry� (cp. Addey 2014: 128).

quote:

Neoplatonists and Christians

Iamblichus�s works provide the framework for the serious consideration of theurgy�and perhaps particularly the theurgical ideas of the Chaldaean Oracles�within the continuing Neoplatonic schools.11 His own school at Apamea dissolves after his death, but his pupil Aedesius founds a school at Pergamon, where Neoplatonic theurgists such as Sosipatra and Maximus of Ephesus (c. 310�372 CE) study. Sosipatra, who also taught in Aedesius�s school, is said to have been trained in all the theurgic arts in childhood by a pair of divine and mysterious strangers, and other miracles attended her life, as it is recounted in Eunapius (who provides much of the information for all these figures). Maximus becomes the advisor in matters theurgical of the Emperor Julian, who sees in Iamblichean theurgy a religious system to counter the encroachment of Christianity into the Roman Empire.

The Emperor Julian, Flavius Claudius Julianus (331�363 CE), is the nephew (son of the half-brother) of the Emperor Constantine, who officially converts himself (and thus the Roman Empire) to Christianity in 312 CE. After Constantine�s death, Julian�s father and several other members of his family are assassinated at the behest of some of Constantine�s sons, one of whom, Constantius, eventually gains control of the Empire. Julian grows up in exile or under careful imperial supervision and is given a Christian education. Nevertheless, he studies Neoplatonic philosophy and, in 351, is initiated into theurgic mysteries by Maximus. Julian revolts against Constantius in 360, and his troops proclaim him emperor, creating a civil war in the Empire. Fortunately, Constantius dies of illness shortly thereafter, and on his deathbed he proclaims Julian emperor, averting further war. When he becomes emperor in 361 CE, Julian officially turns the Roman Empire back to traditional Hellenic religion and tries to formulate a coherent polytheistic religious system to counteract organized Christianity. He bans Christians from teaching Hellenic literature and philosophy, saying that, if they wished to teach, they could preach the gospel in their churches, but he did not persecute Christians physically (in fact, some Christian bishops denounce him for not letting Christians achieve martyrdom). Saloustios�s treatise On the Gods and the World seems to be an articulation of Julian�s theological system, recounting in somewhat simplified terms the Iamblichan theurgical ideas he learns from Maximus.12 Julian himself wrote a number of works, including a Hymn to King Helios and a Hymn to the Mother of the Gods, which make use of theurgic imagery.

Julian dies pretty much a failure in 363 CE, having tried to mount a massive invasion of Persia to expand Rome�s power, during which he is killed in action. His troops appoint a Christian general, Jovian, to be emperor, and, although Jovian also only lasts around a year before dying, he is succeeded by the Emperors Valens and Valentinus I, who keep the Roman Empire firmly in the Christian camp, reversing the revolution Julian sought (hence he is called Julian the Apostate). After Julian�s death, Maximus is prosecuted and tortured for financial improprieties and then finally executed in 370 CE by the Emperor Valens.

Theurgy, however, remains important to the Neoplatonists. The Neoplatonist Synesius (c. 373�414 CE), who was a pupil of the famous Hypatia of Alexandria, becomes the Christian bishop of Cyrene, but continues to write works that touch on theurgical themes, such as some hymns and his treatise on dreams (de insomniis). Proclus (412�485 CE) learns his theurgy from Asclepigeneia, the daughter of Plutarch of Athens, and eventually becomes head of the Platonic school in Athens. His commentary on the Chaldaean Oracles (now lost) was massively influential on later thinkers, and his other works provide much evidence for theurgy as well as many of the surviving fragments of the Chaldaean Oracles. His fragmentary treatise, dubbed On Sacrifice and Magic by its Renaissance commentators, provides the clearest picture of theurgic activity. Hermias (c. 410�450 CE), who was a fellow pupil along with Proclus of the Neoplatonist known as Syrianus, makes numerous references to theurgical matters in his commentary on Plato�s Phaedrus. Their contemporary Hierocles of Alexandria blends Neoplatonism with Neopythagoreanism in his commentary on the Golden Verses of Pythagoras, which likewise engages with theurgical ideas and quotes the Chaldaean Oracles. Further evidence comes from Damascius (462�539 CE), who was the last head of Platonic Academy when Emperor Justinian shut down all pagan schools in 529 CE. Damascius also preserves many fragments of the Chaldaean Oracles, often, however, with markedly different interpretations than Proclus has. Proclus�s ideas seem to predominate, however, in the last major source for ancient theurgy, the Byzantine courtier and scholar Michael Psellos (c. 1019�1078 CE). Although a Christian, Psellos preserves much of the evidence for the Chaldaean Oracles in his comments on Proclus�s lost commentary on the Oracles.

11 Tanaseanu-D�bler 2013: 129 notes the significance of Iamblichus�s systematization of theurgy as a label for his philosophical ideas in its continuing authority. � �Theurgy� can therefore be considered as one particular label for the ideal religious expertise taken from the Chaldean Oracles; its systematic development in De mysteriis in order to respond to Porphyry�s attacks made it a useful tool for developing a philosophical ritual theory and thus ensured its success over others.�

# ? Mar 24, 2024 14:43

Squizzle: Apr 24, 2008

godworkers must seize the means of god production

# ? Mar 24, 2024 14:59

LITERALLY A BIRD: Sep 27, 2008; I knew you were trouble
when you flew in

It's true.

# ? Mar 24, 2024 16:51

Orbs: Apr 1, 2009; ~Liberation~

Squizzle posted:

3 bodhi problem

Hey, I'm just catching up with this thread as I'm resting today, and wanted to non-empty-quote this amazing post, lol

LITERALLY A BIRD posted:

I have been reading that "Drawing Down the Moon" book and it's good.

Here's some stuff about Neoplatonism for all you folks who like Rome.

And to non-empty-quote this equally amazing (for different reasons) post. :lovebird:

# ? Mar 24, 2024 18:29

Sherbert Hoover: Dec 12, 2019; Working hard, thank you!

neoplatonists were extremely silly people and it's no surprise that their stagnation in minutiae was not as popular as believing there's a god who knows and loves you

# ? Mar 24, 2024 18:41

Orbs: Apr 1, 2009; ~Liberation~

Sherbert Hoover posted:

neoplatonists were extremely silly people and it's no surprise that their stagnation in minutiae was not as popular as believing there's a god who knows and loves you

Maybe so, but the practice has evolved and grown since them. And the relative silliness between the two worldviews is starting to shift in the larger world, I feel like.

# ? Mar 24, 2024 19:02

nice obelisk idiot: May 18, 2023; funerary linens looking like dishrags

Sherbert Hoover posted:

neoplatonists were extremely silly people and it's no surprise that their stagnation in minutiae was not as popular as believing there's a god who knows and loves you

eriugena is often called a neoplatonist, and was probably the least silly person of the european middle ages imo. he was obviously informed by a deep religious practice including a devotional one.

# ? Mar 24, 2024 19:28

Squizzle: Apr 24, 2008

Sherbert Hoover posted:

neoplatonists were extremely silly people and it's no surprise that their stagnation in minutiae was not as popular as believing there's a god who knows and loves you

but once the red space apostle has used his drill to smash the tube sending a wave of good energy from gods tube to cover the galaxy, where will you find refuge if not the perfect realm of forms (i.e. the supertrain mega zord)

# ? Mar 24, 2024 19:54

tristeham: Jul 31, 2022

let plotinus cook

# ? Mar 24, 2024 21:02

Sherbert Hoover: Dec 12, 2019; Working hard, thank you!

yeah i bet you like monads

# ? Mar 24, 2024 21:56

blatman: May 10, 2009; 14 inc dont mez

Squizzle posted:

but once the red space apostle has used his drill to smash the tube sending a wave of good energy from gods tube to cover the galaxy, where will you find refuge if not the perfect realm of forms (i.e. the supertrain mega zord)

trying to pierce the heavens with my drill but all i get is a noise complaint and a public nuisance charge

# ? Mar 25, 2024 02:55

Squizzle: Apr 24, 2008

hope everyone is feeling good about 6774 as the new year arrives

# ? Mar 25, 2024 15:00

Sherbert Hoover: Dec 12, 2019; Working hard, thank you!

merry x-muk

# ? Mar 25, 2024 15:21

Squizzle: Apr 24, 2008

Sherbert Hoover posted:

merry x-muk

x-muk 97 is great so far btw

# ? Mar 25, 2024 15:35

Orbs: Apr 1, 2009; ~Liberation~

Sherbert Hoover posted:

yeah i bet you like monads

What the gently caress is a monad

# ? Mar 25, 2024 15:41

Squizzle: Apr 24, 2008

Orbs posted:

What the gently caress is a monad

this is a username post combo of exquisite quality

# ? Mar 25, 2024 15:43

Orbs: Apr 1, 2009; ~Liberation~

Squizzle posted:

this is a username post combo of exquisite quality

Thanks I guess, but I genuinely have no idea what any of you are talking about

# ? Mar 25, 2024 15:47

SpaceGoatFarts: Jan 5, 2010; sic transit gloria mundi; Nap Ghost

Le monade

# ? Mar 25, 2024 15:50

Sherbert Hoover: Dec 12, 2019; Working hard, thank you!

Orbs posted:

What the gently caress is a monad

It is very complicated and differs between Hellenistic and late antique philosophy, but ancient Mediterranean philosophy was pretty obsessed with the idea that everything is made of things, both physically and metaphysically, like we are made of not only bone atoms and meat atoms, but also beauty, intelligence, man, poster, etc. Many philosophers believed that on some level there is beauty etc. by itself and these forms and all creation are emanations of the monad, a kind of singularity or godhead that exhibits perfect unity, of which everything else and all ideas are lesser and lesser copies and divisions. When Christianity took over, theologians dropped most of the numerology and physics aspects of it but kept the idea of God's omnipresence.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 16:04

Pepe Silvia Browne: Jan 1, 2007

Orbs posted:

What the gently caress is a monad

it means your balls op

# ? Mar 25, 2024 16:05

blatman: May 10, 2009; 14 inc dont mez

Sherbert Hoover posted:

It is very complicated and differs between Hellenistic and late antique philosophy, but ancient Mediterranean philosophy was pretty obsessed with the idea that everything is made of things, both physically and metaphysically, like we are made of not only bone atoms and meat atoms, but also beauty, intelligence, man, poster, etc. Many philosophers believed that on some level there is beauty etc. by itself and these forms and all creation are emanations of the monad, a kind of singularity or godhead that exhibits perfect unity, of which everything else and all ideas are lesser and lesser copies and divisions. When Christianity took over, theologians dropped most of the numerology and physics aspects of it but kept the idea of God's omnipresence.

i am the platonic ideal of the beauty poster man

# ? Mar 25, 2024 21:06

LITERALLY A BIRD: Sep 27, 2008; I knew you were trouble
when you flew in

Sherbert Hoover posted:

neoplatonists were extremely silly people and it's no surprise that their stagnation in minutiae was not as popular as believing there's a god who knows and loves you

Well all the minutiae is because it was a system of philosophy, an attempt to perceive and articulate the secret workings of reality and the cosmos. The minutiae (metaphysics) of Neoplatonism centered a need for individual spiritual improvement and development to be able to approach and be reassimilated by the One, pure goodness, the source of everything (right? IANAN). Whether the Gods of a religion, in this case considered as beings created of that greater Divine, are capable of knowing and loving their mortal worshippers is on a different theological axis entirely. (And they were, of course.)

I propose a more accurate statement here would be that it's no surprise a religious philosophy which demands a constant striving toward ethical perfection for ultimate salvation was not as popular as believing that Jesus saves and you'll take no damage.

also after Rome picked Christianity as the state religion they outlawed paganism and pagan practice and closed all the non-Christian philosophy schools and told everyone to convert or be arrested and lose your citizenship / probably be killed shortly thereafter. So that would have contributed a little too

# ? Mar 25, 2024 21:08

LITERALLY A BIRD: Sep 27, 2008; I knew you were trouble
when you flew in

blatman posted:

i am the platonic ideal of the beauty poster man

yeah you are

# ? Mar 25, 2024 21:11

Sherbert Hoover: Dec 12, 2019; Working hard, thank you!

It is on a different axis, but they're linked historically. The focus on metaphysics had done a great deal to chip away at educated people's belief in the traditional pagan mythos, which is why they started importing their religion from the east in the form of Christianity and various mystery cults, and why gnosticism is basically a fusion of everything but the traditional pantheon.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 21:22

LITERALLY A BIRD: Sep 27, 2008; I knew you were trouble
when you flew in

that makes sense. Okay, so they shouldn't have split the Deities from the dialectics. Got it. We can fix that. Gods for everyone.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 21:52

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 27, 2024 23:56

ex post facho: Oct 25, 2007

how do we feel about deus ex machina?

I have had a very fortunate string of "tech luck" recently where devices worked painlessly when they absolutely should not have and with minimal fuss and effort. to which deity do i owe my thanks and future offerings

# ? Mar 25, 2024 22:08

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > multidenominational witchcraft thread: because demonocracy has succeeded

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