|
withering
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 21:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 30, 2024 06:36 |
|
|
polycritical posted:We cast spells every day. It's just that, if we thought of it that way, we'd be like "dang, why do i keep casting these lovely rear end spells"
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 21:48
|
|
|
polycritical posted:withering I cast Regrowth
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 22:53
|
|
|
me: i want to cast spells you: spells are what you do all the time actually! me: ok spells suck rear end. i no longer want to cast spells
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 22:58
|
|
|
POWER WORD: SHIELD SHADOW WORD: PAIN
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 23:10
|
|
|
Sherbert Hoover posted:me: i want to cast spells
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 23:16
|
|
|
babies are doing their best
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 23:28
|
|
|
Bar Ran Dun posted:Tillich ends the lecture on Origen describing how Origen’s theology causes a problem with Jesus having a preexisting existing divine nature, instead Jesus is like a container that fills up with Being then has unity with God. [...] If he does share this with Origen that’s the door, it doesn’t negate the event of Jesus, it potentially negates the uniqueness of the event of Jesus as the Christ. Btw BRD what are you saying here? Are you saying that Jesus filling up with Divinity like a man-shaped God container is a thing that theologically speaking happened, and furthermore may happen again? Are you saying all of humankind is aspiring toward attaining that Christ nature, and thereby realizing the full potential of the inner Divine? I ask if you say this because it sounds to me like you do
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 23:59
|
|
|
Filled By God
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 23:59
|
|
|
Ohtori Akio posted:Filled By God & Loving It
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 00:00
|
|
|
LITERALLY A BIRD posted:Btw BRD what are you saying here? Are you saying that Jesus filling up with Divinity like a man-shaped God container is a thing that theologically speaking happened, and furthermore may happen again? Are you saying all of humankind is aspiring toward attaining that Christ nature, and thereby realizing the full potential of the inner Divine? I ask if you say this because it sounds to me that you do It’s what Origen’s cosmology implied. Origen is not the orthodox view, it gets rejected at Nicea. But the concept pops up all over the place even in people one would not expect it in. An example is CS Lewis’s obstinate tin soldiers essay in Mere Christianity. That filling up and becoming more Christ like over time. Years ago when my wife was at seminary she would buy used textbooks. These would often come from other students some of which were close family friends (her side). The highlighting and notes of the other students, were in these textbooks. Reading these textbooks after her, I could see her notes, their notes, and occasionally her notes about their notes. a very funny one was what she realized that friend of the family was an Arian. My hunch that Tillich was an Origenist is like that. That I believe in apokatastasis, I know that came from his ideas (among other things). But setting Origen aside. The idea that anyone can be Christ-like (separate from Origenism) is extremely widespread and it’s a very core idea. Any person can be for all others. Salvation is having an answer to the question of: How to be in the world? That’s one way to understand a phrase like I have new life in Jesus. That’s the Good News that we can be like Jesus. The eastern folks even have a word for the process of becoming more like Jesus over a lifetime, Theosis. I mean it’s explicit in thinking like this: "He was incarnate that we might be made god" -Athanasius of Alexandria. that’s a Trinitarian church father saying that. I mean that’s the evangelion, εὐάγγελος good-logos-messenger. Bar Ran Dun has issued a correction as of 03:33 on Apr 14, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 01:51
|
|
|
Origen sounds like he was a smart fellow too So how might a person who believes in the Trinitarian God walk the path of theosis? Is it the same way that might any other person who knows the Ultimate Divine by any other name? That is to say, by personal mystic contemplation and study of other people's mystic contemplations, and the practice and development of personal Spiritual gifts discovered through those studies and contemplations??
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 15:11
|
|
|
Squizzle posted:babies are doing their best
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 15:23
|
|
|
Alas
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 16:43
|
|
|
Alas is right, but it can't be helped. A lot of weight comes with having a fearless dreadnought wisemind. Too much weight for a baby. This is another reason we should master our spellwork, so that we can shield the children from such pain.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 16:47
|
|
|
The eastern route is mystical, yep contemplation, they have a whole thing I don’t know much about. Also there is a created / uncreated glass ceiling of a sort, can’t be a hypostatis because humans are created, so sainthood is the limit. my own feelings on it are more one follows the example of Jesus by living that example of being-for-others. if one is particularly successful at that they may kill one for it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 17:53
|
|
|
due to modern licensing restrictions anyone claiming to be "practicing witchcraft" without undergoing the full apprenticeship is merely performing pointy hat sorcery (illegal, not to code)
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 18:12
|
|
|
that's so interesting
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 19:30
|
|
|
the everfast ship of the theological gnostic mind struggles to perceive the omnipresent divinity of the universe, which could be seen in the Three-In-One concept practiced by early jesuit sorcerers.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 19:34
|
|
|
isnt the everfast ship, the one that blocked the suez
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 00:22
|
|
|
what was so magical about the magi? dudes see a starry sign lit up, drop off some treats for j-man then hit the bricks. could have just been a few polite truck drivers passing through that needed a place to stop for the night
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 14:06
|
|
|
Charlatan Eschaton posted:what was so magical about the magi? dudes see a starry sign lit up, drop off some treats for j-man then hit the bricks. could have just been a few polite truck drivers passing through that needed a place to stop for the night everyone can notice stars but only someone being paid to notice stars can do anything about it
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 14:36
|
|
|
.
Orbs has issued a correction as of 16:33 on Apr 17, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 15:26
|
|
|
.
Somebody has issued a correction as of 18:22 on Apr 17, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 18:06
|
|
|
Charlatan Eschaton posted:what was so magical about the magi? dudes see a starry sign lit up, drop off some treats for j-man then hit the bricks. could have just been a few polite truck drivers passing through that needed a place to stop for the night Isaac Bonewits, "Real Magic" (1971) posted:Most people associate [the word magi] with the “Three Wisemen” who supposedly showed up to worship the infant Jesus at his birth. The visitation of newborn saviors and avatars by kings and wisemen is a common theme in nativity myths[...] So a group of magi attending the birth of the savior is a legitimizing event. The specific gifts they bring have significance too: gold is a gift for kings, myrrh is used to anoint the dead, and frankincense is symbolic of divinity. The Christ-child receiving these gifts from the wise-men indicates their perception and endorsement of his legitimacy as messiah. Something I learned recently which is related and I found very interesting is that the Egyptian and Akkadian name for Jerusalem, Urushalim, means "founded by Shalim," a Canaanite God who was identified with Venus as the Evening Star. While by the time Jesus was born the city had been known as "Jerusalem" for a few hundred years, the appearance of a brightly shining star to guide the magi to the child (whether historical or fully mythological) would be advertised as another mark of his legitimacy: the foundational Deity of the Jewish holy city itself takes time to not only attend the birth, but lead there those who also wished to offer gifts and respects.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 19:05
|
|
|
its further complicated by the use of magos to refer generally to a broad stereotype of wise easterner—like how terms like shaman, priest, wizard, demon etc all have both broad potential uses but also, contextually, precise and culture-specific meanings. how contemporary audiences understood the gospel usage, and indeed what shades of meaning the author intended, have some breadth for interpretation. its definitely orientalizing but it could be orientalizing in any of myriad specific ways
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 23:23
|
|
|
to be clear, the zoroästrian aspect is always the semantic center and never falls out of currency. in this sense, it isnt like shaman, where most people are never thinking about the evenki, ever, even once, while interacting w the term shaman or otherwise; i guess the broader uses of the term zen might be a better comparison?? like the avg person knows that buddhism exists and zen is somehow associated w it, even if that isnt what they mean. if Some Guy wrote about a group of zen masters coming by, you would rightly look at that and go “not sure if he means buddhists or like...wise at-least-faintly eastern sages”
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2024 00:08
|
|
|
sounds like the magi were sort of an outline of the older eastern religions? long distance travel, celestial navigation, plant medicines, mineral refinement and respectful sharing of ritual offerings. multiple gods of earth resources sort of passing the torch and being merged into this other belief system of just one main guy and his mom.LITERALLY A BIRD posted:Shalim interesting that they thought of evening star and morning star phases of venus as twin gods instead of one that disappears for a while and comes back on the other side like inanna. i've heard mary translated as maryam 'star of the sea' for the north star? venus/aphrodite came from the sea but the "of the sea" part reminds me of early ocean gods nammu birthing enki or naunet mothering atum/ra.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2024 13:43
|
|
|
I wonder if we can't credit Inanna (and Enheduanna) for the Venus personification becoming a single, female entity rather than a pair of entities or an entity who has dramatic shifts of presentation. For the Canaanites we have Shalim and Shahar, the male evening star and female morning star twin Gods; then there's the Akkadian Ishtar, a non-binary/two-gendered God presenting as male in the morning and female in the evening; and then after Inanna gets equated to Ishtar ("the Akkadians call you Ishtar") she inherits Ishtar's celestial associations and since her own femininity is such a defining aspect of her Ishtar loses their explicit intersex aspect ("to turn a man to a woman and a woman to a man is yours, Inanna") and Venus is seen as a singular female entity pretty much from then on (Inanna, Venus, Aphrodite). I have a lot of favorite things about Inanna but one of my most favorite is the way she got syncretized with a bi-gendered Deity and instead of Inanna becoming male, as happened with some other female Deities from her pantheon iirc?? the bi-gendered Deity settled on female. Inanna is who she is and everybody else has just gotta deal with that I do think it's a shame that Ishtar then lost their gender fluid aspect completely but that's a whole other kettle of historio-religious fish
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2024 15:57
|
|
|
That's interesting, is there anything that you'd recommend on the history of Mesopotamian religion? I'm pretty ignorant about it. But stuff like that has been on my mind quite a bit. IE gender division, practices that bridge dichotomies and how that can heal things, and how religion fulfills social and psychological needs in a society. I have read before that bigendered/androgynous gods becoming more fixed in binary gender was related to changing division of labor and social status, especially along gendered lines. And IMO that tracks. So religion became more about solidifying those divisions, instead of being a more universal experience that blended them. You can't get away from a god strongly associated with love or fertility for both sexes having a deeply feminine aspect, and so if you make them choose teams they're going towards woman. But otherwise a patriarchal society would usually say, hey, he's ours. This way of being is Guy Stuff. And maybe that increasing compartmentalization was part of the emergence of new religious ideas, because it left some of the deeper healing/cohesive parts of religion behind. nice obelisk idiot has issued a correction as of 17:02 on Apr 19, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2024 16:48
|
|
|
nice obelisk idiot posted:That's interesting, is there anything that you'd recommend on the history of Mesopotamian religion? I'm pretty ignorant about it. Oh boy. I don't have any solid recommendations here honestly, I'm a lifelong Egypt girl. Inanna is just a special case. On the Mesopotamian side most everything I know is related to her directly. Charlatan or Squizzle might have some titles to try. nice obelisk idiot posted:I have read before that bigendered/androgynous gods becoming more fixed in binary gender was related to changing division of labor and social status, especially along gendered lines. And IMO that tracks. So religion became more about solidifying those divisions, instead of being a more universal experience that blended them. You can't get away from a god strongly associated with love or fertility for both sexes having a deeply feminine aspect, and so if you make them choose teams they're going towards woman. But otherwise a patriarchal society would usually say, hey, he's ours. This way of being is Guy Stuff. This otoh I can provide an interesting link for. Paul, the Goddess Religions, and Queer Sects: Romans 1:23-28 quote:Romans 1:23-28 is one of the primary texts from the NT used to justify the contemporary condemnation of both male and female homosexuals by some religious groups and has been the source of significant recent discussion. This paper seeks to recontextualize the passage as a unified attack on idolatry by identifying the subjects of the “gay” and “lesbian” behavior[1] in Rom 1:26-27 as participants in the goddess cults that were widespread in Paul’s time and posed a direct threat to Paul’s ministry. These individuals violated patriarchal norms of masculinity, femininity, and sexuality in very public ways, as well as contemporary heteronormativity, and so I refer to them using the postmodern term “queer.”[2] The tl;dr of this paper (I expect you will want to read the whole thing but I doubt everyone will  ) is that back in the day Goddess cults had strong ties to non-normative gender expression. This was so common so as to be considered a standard feature of Goddess worship; this is likely to do with exactly that thing you said up there, wherein a feminine Deity may be associated with femininizing activity but a masculine Deity is all man, all the time, you kidding me? Get that gender-bending poo poo out of his face. So Goddess cults were still incredibly popular at the time of Paul's ministry but also Goddess worship, manifested as it was through active transgression of the gender binary (and it was; Inanna in particular is perceived as liminal and dipolar and constantly blurring boundaries between states of being [man/woman; God/mortal; death/life; human/beast]; we have many myths and hymns to attest to this) was something Paul felt pretty incompatible with Christianity. So he delivers his epistles telling people to stop doing all these things that are specific to Goddess worship (castration being a big one) because that's not part of the Christian religion so like... don't. Which, fair enough right, all that gender stuff is performed to celebrate and worship a different God, so if you're worshipping this guy don't do it. But since Paul is telling everyone, in no uncertain terms, that men are to behave as men and women as women, and one is not to emulate or become or attempt to become the other, of course that's sooner or later going to be interpreted as him stating "gender deviance is wicked/sinful/unnatural," full stop, without the contemporaneous context that he was taking a stand against pagan religious practice seeping into the practice of his newly minted Christians.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2024 17:51
|
|
|
That's great stuff, thank you so much. I'll read it as soon as I have a chance. And once again, things that Paul fixates on that are particular to his context or neuroses, become universal Problems for 2 millennia 
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2024 18:55
|
|
|
yeah my pleasure! and lol. yes. the eternal Paul dilemma
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2024 19:21
|
|
|
Why couldn't Ringo write the gospel instead smdh
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2024 19:29
|
|
|
LITERALLY A BIRD posted:Oh boy. I don't have any solid recommendations here honestly, I'm a lifelong Egypt girl. Inanna is just a special case. On the Mesopotamian side most everything I know is related to her directly. Charlatan or Squizzle might have some titles to try. That's all really fascinating though, the morning and evening star twin gods too. And all my homies hate Paul.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2024 21:01
|
|
|
Paul's got some points. I tend to lay the blame at reading his words as if they are Christ's.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2024 21:18
|
|
|
agreed on that. He's not like the author of the Gospel of John where it's just straight from the tap. He's entangled with practical matters of holding a growing community together, with necessarily imperfect approaches and results.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2024 21:37
|
|
|
Not here he doesn't. I banish Paul from this thread.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2024 21:37
|
|
|
Orbs posted:Not here he doesn't. I banish Paul from this thread. gonna cast a spell of banishment? levitate me out of the thread?
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2024 21:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 30, 2024 06:36 |
|
|
Ohtori Akio posted:gonna cast a spell of banishment? levitate me out of the thread?
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2024 21:49
|
|