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A Trinitarian way to look at it is: The Father is Being itself, the Son is the Ground of Being, and the Spirit is Being in each of us who are the siblings of the Son and children of the Father.
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Apr 13, 2024 00:47
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the death is the event though.
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Apr 13, 2024 01:45
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Jazerus posted:- but how could it be anything but a premature end to what the man, jesus, planned to do and say? it’s the big L. an embarrassing total and complete destruction. But it’s not just him. I’m partial to the idea that the gospels are written down by different communities as the war progresses. The Romans are crucifying lots of people as they put down the revolt. The world is ending for these communities there are lots of crosses. They have to pick which story they are going to tell and how that story is structured. The story inverts being crushed by power.
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Apr 13, 2024 02:11
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Tillich uses the phrasing “the event of Jesus as the Christ” consistently. I don’t think “suppose” is strong enough , “event” is referring to Jesus on the cross. Sartre has an idea think is useful, the “concrete universal”. Think of the concrete universal like a platonic form that is a existing thing. Sartre argues that building the concrete universal is the goal of the philosopher and the atheists real final project. And this is used to move existentialism into a humanism (and socialism). Religion has a ground of Being which is the concrete universal and but it is a content of revelation. it’s not built (because it’s impossible to build it) it’s spoken by God as revelation. that’s the event. His definition of faith as Ultimate Concern is structurally identical to Sartre’s Final Project (Tillich is first though and the two are ontologically inverted). The event is the object of Ultimate Concern for Tillich, and “there may be -- and I stress this, there may be -- “ is his doubt in it. but if one looks at his writings on Origen and the development of the Logos doctrine, this idea of relativism comes up while he is lecturing at Harvard. The reason Origen isn’t a church Father despite assembling the canon and creating theology as a thing (advancing the logos doctrine from Apology to systematic theology) is because Origen’s cosmology had the potential open for other hypostasis. In reaction to that potential and eventually adopted at Nicea there is a reaction. Tillich ends the lecture on Origen describing how Origen’s theology causes a problem with Jesus having a preexisting existing divine nature, instead Jesus is like a container that fills up with Being then has unity with God. He ends that lecture with this: “This of course is the negation of the Divine nature of the Savior. This shows what made him a heretic, although many people of that time and perhaps even of today would prefer to follow him.” I think in “perhaps even of today” he is referring to himself. If he does share this with Origen that’s the door, it doesn’t negate the event of Jesus, it potentially negates the uniqueness of the event of Jesus as the Christ. There could be other revealed concrete universals. Bar Ran Dun has issued a correction as of 18:07 on Apr 13, 2024 |
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Apr 13, 2024 18:02
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:Btw BRD what are you saying here? Are you saying that Jesus filling up with Divinity like a man-shaped God container is a thing that theologically speaking happened, and furthermore may happen again? Are you saying all of humankind is aspiring toward attaining that Christ nature, and thereby realizing the full potential of the inner Divine? I ask if you say this because it sounds to me that you do It’s what Origen’s cosmology implied. Origen is not the orthodox view, it gets rejected at Nicea. But the concept pops up all over the place even in people one would not expect it in. An example is CS Lewis’s obstinate tin soldiers essay in Mere Christianity. That filling up and becoming more Christ like over time. Years ago when my wife was at seminary she would buy used textbooks. These would often come from other students some of which were close family friends (her side). The highlighting and notes of the other students, were in these textbooks. Reading these textbooks after her, I could see her notes, their notes, and occasionally her notes about their notes. a very funny one was what she realized that friend of the family was an Arian. My hunch that Tillich was an Origenist is like that. That I believe in apokatastasis, I know that came from his ideas (among other things). But setting Origen aside. The idea that anyone can be Christ-like (separate from Origenism) is extremely widespread and it’s a very core idea. Any person can be for all others. Salvation is having an answer to the question of: How to be in the world? That’s one way to understand a phrase like I have new life in Jesus. That’s the Good News that we can be like Jesus. The eastern folks even have a word for the process of becoming more like Jesus over a lifetime, Theosis. I mean it’s explicit in thinking like this: "He was incarnate that we might be made god" -Athanasius of Alexandria. that’s a Trinitarian church father saying that. I mean that’s the evangelion, εὐάγγελος good-logos-messenger. Bar Ran Dun has issued a correction as of 03:33 on Apr 14, 2024 |
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Apr 14, 2024 01:51
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The eastern route is mystical, yep contemplation, they have a whole thing I don’t know much about. Also there is a created / uncreated glass ceiling of a sort, can’t be a hypostatis because humans are created, so sainthood is the limit. my own feelings on it are more one follows the example of Jesus by living that example of being-for-others. if one is particularly successful at that they may kill one for it.
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Apr 14, 2024 17:53
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:Christianity still gets to be special because "the Word was made flesh" or whatever one of the big differences that brings is who has access to it. The contrasting example is the Stoic Logos which is pessimistic about who can follow the word. They even have a theosis like condition, the logikos. instead of the anybody can be a little christ because of the humanity of the Word, they have that only a few very very few can be the logikos the “determined by the word” or the “determined by reason “. the humanity of the deified Word changes its accessibility. It’s family. Not metaphorically, but literally. To me if one is taking Christianity seriously, there are three statements that I think are often metaphorically interpreted that are actually literal. We are all children of the Father. We are all the brothers and sisters of Jesus. We are all mother’s children. that’s the fundamental difference in the relationship with the Word to most of the other places one sees the Logos. It was spoken as a person and in Christianity it is related to as a person. One can go out and meet a person and encounter the Logos in them. there’s another metaphor I don’t remember where he uses it, but Tillich compares religion a treasure chest hidden inside of a mausoleum.
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May 2, 2024 23:34
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tristeham doesn’t like that I think support of Donald Trump is support of fascism and then thinks that’s an appropriate to do about it. to be fair it is a conclusion about Trump that is directly resulting from my love of Tillich. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 4, 2024 01:27
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| # ¿ May 21, 2024 08:02 |
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ships not boats. boats are cargo. the yacht-ees are whole separate thing from unlimited tonnage and horsepower mariners. I actually kind-of dislike boats bigger than canoes basically until one gets to real ships.
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May 4, 2024 02:21
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