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Telsa Cola posted:I want this to be reiterated. It is an incredibly bad call for the moderation to punish or threaten to punish posters for pointing out posters with a history of poo poo posting or whatever. Says the guy that thinks surviving child abuse is just a grift.  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 19, 2021 02:39
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This has occurred in the past and it did not work out. All that happen will happen is just screaming, yelling, etc. over whom has the worse rap sheet.
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Jan 19, 2021 02:40
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Stringent posted:Says the guy that thinks surviving child abuse is just a grift. Was it fishmech who that long chess screed was about? Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Jan 19, 2021 |
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Jan 19, 2021 02:43
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Telsa Cola posted:I want this to be reiterated. It is an incredibly bad call for the moderation to punish or threaten to punish posters for pointing out posters with a history of poo poo posting or whatever. I mean, what this really rewards is posters best at storytelling; most capable of stringing probations and out of context posts into a narrative of a poster being B-B-Bad. That sort of manipulation has happened in this very thread with the_steve, with Majorian, with other posters, it will continue long as it's tolerated.
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Jan 19, 2021 02:47
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Neurolimal posted:I mean, what this really rewards is posters best at storytelling; most capable of stringing probations and out of context posts into a narrative of a poster being B-B-Bad. That sort of manipulation has happened in this very thread with the_steve, with Majorian, with other posters, it will continue long as it's tolerated. There is a difference between someone breaking out their badposter.txt file and writing a long screed about how X is the scum of the earth, and someone going "Hey, this person has a history about being a poo poo about Y topic, maybe let's not this time"
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Jan 19, 2021 02:55
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Neurolimal posted:I mean, what this really rewards is posters best at storytelling; most capable of stringing probations and out of context posts into a narrative of a poster being B-B-Bad. That sort of manipulation has happened in this very thread with the_steve, with Majorian, with other posters, it will continue long as it's tolerated. It's not the posters doing the storytelling; it's the rap sheets. Sometimes you'll open someone's rap sheet and find yourself wondering, "wow, they seem to get probated over and over for doing the same loving thing" and ask yourself why that might be, and you'll check some of the posts that got them probated and immediately realize it's because they are shitheads who just want to be able to post whatever they want without any consequences or any regard for rules. Thorn Wishes Talon fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Jan 19, 2021 |
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Jan 19, 2021 03:06
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The discussions about rapsheets kinda hits the problem that people can just create alts so you can never tell who you're arguing against. That, and getting a string of probations in, say, FYAD, is probably not the same as getting a probation in D&D which is not the same as getting a probation in Goons with Spoons, which would actually take effort and be considered impressive.
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Jan 19, 2021 03:16
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Neurolimal posted:I'm not sure how one starts at "splitting the thread and training subjects away from a news thread is bad because banning subjects wont work" and arrives at "just punish people talking about subjects I dont like for too long harder" without considering if that approach would not invoke similar friction. I think overall it worked well because the issue in question was that the D&D 5e thread was always causing problems because people kept edition warring and talking about why it's poo poo. So now there's supposed to be no endless rehashing of the issues with D&D and Wizards of the Coast in that thread. That thread is for people who play D&D5e and want to discuss stuff about it other than how it sucks. And it seems to have worked! Now that thread helps people with their paladin build or whatever. People still get to post about how you shouldn't buy or play D&D5e in other threads when it's relevant (it's actually true, you shouldn't - feel free to ask why in the TG chat thread if you want people to tell you about it) and people who are playing it can have their thread to discuss it. I don't generally read that thread, but I just checked in and the only probation in the last month was when one poster replied in an extremely obnoxious way (splitting a long post into a million tiny atomic quotes and replying to each molecule separately) and another poster got mad and yelled at them about it, lol. Telsa Cola posted:Also for the love of god be more free with threadbans, it's one thread on one subforum on one website. They could literally post in a different thread or subforum. In fact you should encourage them to, because if they are able to do so for a sufficient length of time and not be an rear end in a top hat then you have a good reason to grant a reprieve. As for digging through rap sheets. Yeah, I think if someone has a history of like saying racist poo poo, or creeping on people or something like that, that's worth pointing out. But like, someone just went through my rap sheet and if you do, you find what? That I get upset and post mad about two topics: rapists and concentration camps. And I sometimes catch probations over it. Should I try to post with a bit more restraint? Yeah, but I'm not wrong to be mad about those things. It would be wrong not to be mad about them. But like, the worst posters aren't even people with bad rap sheets. I remember when Amergin was posting in here and it was easy enough to put him on ignore, but the threads would always become bogged down with people posting about him. I tried to create a "posting about Amergin" thread for people to post in so they wouldn't keep on derailing threads by posting about him. (The mods closed it, and rightly so - I don't think that thread was going anywhere good in the long run.) I don't think Amergin's rap sheet was that bad considering all the poo poo he stirred up.
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Jan 19, 2021 03:36
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Personally, feel free to dig through my rapsheet, I'll stand by any of my arguments and acknowledge that I was an rear end in a top hat because so were the assholes I replied to. What I have a problem with is A) the intentional emotional mischaracterizing of an argument by the mod B) the absolutely useless "post better" probes which just mean "post less", just tell me to post less C) probes that you get for actually replying to everyone and everything directed to you because your posts get "too long" (because the non probe side can't even answer a direct question so you spend a lot of time talking about non-relevant rear end pulls and you also get brigaded by people who start sniping but can't stand the heat themselves and the mod gets like 20 reports of you) D) Probes for not being the side to give up on an argument while the other side gets to coast off scott-free with their snide parting shots because they were arguing for the side the mod agrees with If you enforce content (length of argument, type of argument, formatting, not stopping the argument) instead of behaviour (rear end in a top hat) it is usually not based on anything objective. I don't have any vendettas against individual mods though and to me it seems people who do are imagining focus on them, instead of just how modding works everywhere. This dead dumb forum is small enough to imagine a personal beef where there isn't one. The fact that both sides feel that they are personally targeted is just more evidence of that for me. (EDITed away an old SA-trope that was admittedly homophobic and I won't use it anymore) DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Jan 19, 2021 |
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Jan 19, 2021 03:45
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DarkCrawler posted:(EDITed away an old SA-trope that was admittedly homophobic and I won't use it anymore) E: Thank you Kalit fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Jan 19, 2021 |
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Jan 19, 2021 03:47
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Kalit posted:E: Thank you No problem and my apologies
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Jan 19, 2021 04:39
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Probably Magic posted:which is not the same as getting a probation in Goons with Spoons, which would actually take effort and be considered impressive. What would an awful post worthy of a probation or ban on that forum even look like?
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Jan 19, 2021 05:08
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Rigel posted:What would an awful post worthy of a probation or ban on that forum even look like? goatse
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Jan 19, 2021 05:09
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Rigel posted:What would an awful post worthy of a probation or ban on that forum even look like? Didn't someone post a "okay super long shot but can anyone help me identify this family heirloom spoon so I can get more for a relative?" thread, and then someone else made some serious-looking paragraph-length reply that got tons of praise until other people pointed out it was blatantly just nonsense garbage strung together to look real? I feel like that ended in a probe. EDIT: The saga was sillier than I thought, the only person to get probe'd as a result seems to have been Literally A Bird, as a joke for ruining the magic. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3952137 ElegantFugue fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Jan 19, 2021 |
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Jan 19, 2021 05:11
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Jimbozig posted:I think overall it worked well because the issue in question was that the D&D 5e thread was always causing problems because people kept edition warring and talking about why it's poo poo. So now there's supposed to be no endless rehashing of the issues with D&D and Wizards of the Coast in that thread. That thread is for people who play D&D5e and want to discuss stuff about it other than how it sucks. And it seems to have worked! Now that thread helps people with their paladin build or whatever. People still get to post about how you shouldn't buy or play D&D5e in other threads when it's relevant (it's actually true, you shouldn't - feel free to ask why in the TG chat thread if you want people to tell you about it) and people who are playing it can have their thread to discuss it. I don't generally read that thread, but I just checked in and the only probation in the last month was when one poster replied in an extremely obnoxious way (splitting a long post into a million tiny atomic quotes and replying to each molecule separately) and another poster got mad and yelled at them about it, lol. I didn't go through your rapsheet because I wanted to shame you for getting a little worked up over a heated discussion and eating a probe. I went through it because you busted in here making really aggressive claims about receiving unwarranted probes so bad that even the admins thought the IK sucked. Your rapsheet became relevant when you decided to use it as an argument.
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Jan 19, 2021 05:14
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Rigel posted:What would an awful post worthy of a probation or ban on that forum even look like? Recommending lutefisk be eaten right after it's soaked in lye? I dunno.
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Jan 19, 2021 05:15
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Rigel posted:What would an awful post worthy of a probation or ban on that forum even look like? Chickencheese.
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Jan 19, 2021 05:17
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Rigel posted:What would an awful post worthy of a probation or ban on that forum even look like? Unironically, chili talk I think. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Jan 19, 2021 |
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Jan 19, 2021 05:32
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Can we also please ban future quoting? Even nods/IKs do it and it loving sucks It's also effectively cheating during slow mode but that's not why it sucks
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Jan 19, 2021 05:52
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Hello! I'm just your run-of-the-mill humble equine. Here is a selfie of me, an horse:  It is rather difficult for me to post banging my hooves on a keyboard, but I appreciate your measured consideration. I have been active on these (resuscitated? thanks Jeffrey) forums since summer of 2005 when I graduated high school and first had a credit card to register an account. I was reading SA and talking with my terminally online high-school friends for a couple years prior to that. I remember Toblerone Triangle and the Ron Paul Libertarian phase of D&D. I remember the heyday of LF and McCaine slept over in my apartment but we did not gently caress (sadly). I volunteered in the Obama campaign in '08 and was deeply disappointed when he did not materialize as our Glorious Kenyan Muslim Savior. At no time in the past ~15 years do I recall a dumber and more protracted conflict than the current D&D <-> CSPAM war. That is honestly what a lot of this boils down to. How do we make D&D tolerable for posters (and lurkers) that just want a current events thread without it being shitted up? As other posters have pointed out, the conflict largely revolves around the philosophical conflict between deontology and utilitarianism. Fundamentally, this is not a feedback thread about USPol. This is a thread about the relationship between D&D and CSPAM which from glancing at active users are two of the most trafficked subforums here. I am not convinced that splitting USPol is a good answer. Many posters have commented in this thread that USPol is just fine as-is or is their main source for news. There has been much talk of moderation and IKs. Splitting USPol and improving moderation might certainly help. The root problem is D&D vs. CSPAM. It's an active and ongoing forums feud and it's dumb and counterproductive and a headache for all the mods and IKs. I don't necessarily have a good solution to offer. But this horseshit will continue until mods/admins actually address the fundamental conflict.
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Jan 19, 2021 05:57
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Fritz the Horse posted:Hello! It's also between a relatively small amount of D&Ders and C-Spammers. I don't most people in D&D or C-SPAM give a poo poo.
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Jan 19, 2021 06:21
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I think today we had a reminder that the mods probably are making some progress, or at least having some general success in making USPol more readable. Namely, someone with a long rap sheet and a history of bad posting came in here and said that they don’t post in USPol anymore, because they know they’ll get probations if they do. I think, on the balance, most of us are happy that that person isn’t posting in USPol, and that’s a result of mod action. Even if the poster in question doesn’t see it this way, that counts as a success of moderation. So, bravo!
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Jan 19, 2021 07:25
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socialsecurity posted:The problem overall feels like if people want to talk about bad moderation but we aren't allowed to discuss those points of moderation how are we supposed to figure anything out. At this point it's everyone posting blind accusations but no one is allowed to put forth evidence in either direction.
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Jan 19, 2021 09:33
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Fritz the Horse posted:Hello! The fundamental conflict where D&D gets to threadshit in C-SPAM all they want as long as they stay away from the C-SPAM mods' holy turmp thread and anyone who complains eats a week?
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Jan 19, 2021 12:28
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Gulping Again posted:The fundamental conflict where D&D gets to threadshit in C-SPAM all they want as long as they stay away from the C-SPAM mods' holy turmp thread and anyone who complains eats a week? I don't have a horse in this fight and I don't want to, but isn't CSPAM sort of intentionally a shitposting forum and D&D pretty explicitly NOT a shitposting forum? The dynamic you describe seems to follow naturally from those conditions and appears to represent everything working as intended.
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Jan 19, 2021 13:14
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Gulping Again posted:The fundamental conflict where D&D gets to threadshit in C-SPAM all they want as long as they stay away from the C-SPAM mods' holy turmp thread and anyone who complains eats a week? Who are the D&D posters threadshitting in C-SPAM threads? Sure, let's threadban them and the C-SPAM posters threadshitting in D&D threads. It's not about where people are making bad disruptive posts, it's about those posts being bad and disruptive. EDIT: Like, if someone is able to post constructively in both forums, awesome, that's not the issue here. It's people posting fine in one and then disruptively in the other- that should be threadbanned or probed or otherwise cracked down on, regardless of side. If there are D&D users shitposting unhelpfully in C-SPAM, that's not us owning our posting enemies, that's an idiot shitposting and should be treated as such. ElegantFugue fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Jan 19, 2021 |
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Jan 19, 2021 13:36
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Gulping Again posted:The fundamental conflict where D&D gets to threadshit in C-SPAM all they want as long as they stay away from the C-SPAM mods' holy turmp thread and anyone who complains eats a week? This is hilarious when there is one thread that routinely helldumps DND regardless of what is going on, then blames "invasions" from dnd for why they do it. Its one specific area of cspam that dedicates its time to making GBS threads on anyone that isnt on the same pollical spectrum they are and if they didn't decide to helldump and come to DnD to threadshit everyone would be better off. When one specific poster there literally say he only comes to dnd to be a raging rear end in a top hat its hard to take any complaints as good faith. Considerably more so when said poster is someone that comes in to be as aggressive and toxic as possible in order to make a thread into poo poo.
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Jan 19, 2021 14:34
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Mellow Seas posted:I think today we had a reminder that the mods probably are making some progress, or at least having some general success in making USPol more readable. Namely, someone with a long rap sheet and a history of bad posting came in here and said that they don’t post in USPol anymore, because they know they’ll get probations if they do. I think, on the balance, most of us are happy that that person isn’t posting in USPol, and that’s a result of mod action. Even if the poster in question doesn’t see it this way, that counts as a success of moderation. So, bravo! I stopped posting for months, came back, and what did I find? Did things get better in my absence? Nope! Exact same bullshit. Obviously I personally was not the problem. Who do you think people have in mind when they talk about people who should get a thread ban? Which of us has in their rap sheet a message from a mod saying explicitly that you probably shouldn't post in a certain US politics thread?
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Jan 19, 2021 14:51
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Jimbozig posted:I have a long rap sheet? Lol. You have 3 times as many dings on your sheet as I have and I've been here twice as long as you. So your rate is about 6x mine? If I'm a bad poster, what does that make you? I think in this thread most people's memory of your posting is going to be derived from the relatively short period time you were aggro-posting in the GE thread and catching a high rate of probes. I think you have a solid point that it's not representative of your overall posting given that your rap sheet is almost non-existent outside that window (or maybe you just normally post where that sort of posting is allowed/accepted, which is why those places exist so that's not an insult). I'm extremely sympathetic to anyone claiming something akin to "this topic got me really hot and I made some lovely posts", cause it happens to everyone. Coming in here loaded to bear and making aggro posts about how all your probes are bullshit and all the IK and mods are pieces of poo poo is not going help your problem of people defining you by your worst.
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Jan 19, 2021 15:07
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Jimbozig posted:I have a long rap sheet? Lol. You have 3 times as many dings on your sheet as I have and I've been here twice as long as you. So your rate is about 6x mine? If I'm a bad poster, what does that make you? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Mellow Seas was referencing a different poster(s). But this is a pretty good example of why I think the USPol thread turns to poo poo (super aggressive/defensive posts that jumps to conclusions, which I'm also guilty of occasionally despite my best efforts). Kalit fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Jan 19, 2021 |
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Jan 19, 2021 15:11
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Jarmak posted:I think in this thread most people's memory of your posting is going to be derived from the relatively short period time you were aggro-posting in the GE thread and catching a high rate of probes. I think you have a solid point that it's not representative of your overall posting given that your rap sheet is almost non-existent outside that window (or maybe you just normally post where that sort of posting is allowed/accepted, which is why those places exist so that's not an insult). No, I post in TG where people who defend rapists or call sexual assault victims liars are punished more than the people who get mad at them. Edit to add before anyone thinks I'm saying this is what happens in D&D right now, no. This is what went on in D&D for a little while. Then the mods realized that allowing people to call Tara Reade a liar was actually bad and stopped letting them do that. But that was the source of a bunch of problems and a few of my probations.
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Jan 19, 2021 16:56
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UCS Hellmaker posted:This is hilarious when there is one thread that routinely helldumps DND regardless of what is going on, then blames "invasions" from dnd for why they do it. Its one specific area of cspam that dedicates its time to making GBS threads on anyone that isnt on the same pollical spectrum they are and if they didn't decide to helldump and come to DnD to threadshit everyone would be better off. You just got off probation for going into FYAD and trying to get in on helldumping CSPAM.
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Jan 19, 2021 17:19
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Probably Magic posted:You just got off probation for going into FYAD and trying to get in on helldumping CSPAM. And the thread they're complaining about gets told at least once a day by the moderators to stop picking on D&D. It's abundantly clear that the complaint is coming from a place of ignorance.
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Jan 19, 2021 17:25
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Lib and let die posted:And the thread they're complaining about gets told at least once a day by the moderators to stop picking on D&D Lmao why should that be necessary
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Jan 19, 2021 17:31
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Lib and let die posted:And the thread they're complaining about gets told at least once a day by the moderators to stop picking on D&D. It's abundantly clear that the complaint is coming from a place of ignorance.  Thank you for explicitly detailing the exact thing I said and how a thread has to keep being told not to do the exact thing making DnD into a trashfire.
UCS Hellmaker fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Jan 19, 2021 |
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Jan 19, 2021 17:33
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The Bloop posted:Lmao why should that be necessary it's funny that Fritz's post about the problem with CSPAM and DND immediately gets linked and helldumped in said CSPAM thread. but i'm sure if we PM enough mods and admins, twoday or squizzle will go in there and tell them to cut it out and then go right back to ignoring that thread because it's too toxic to read and even their mods are afraid to do anything to actually address the problem
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Jan 19, 2021 17:35
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Unlike D&D, CSPAM has no real official discord servers to bitch about the rival forums, and that still doesn't stop D&D posters from whining about "tankies" and the like and trying to start QCS brigades in FYAD. Getting real sick and tired of CSPAM being told they're the solely aggro forum by a forum that regularly sends a coalition of twenty posters to QCS to argue for its closing every other month. Also, I don't think any of you know what helldumping actually means.
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Jan 19, 2021 17:37
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There are no official D&D discords, other than the one linked in the rules, which exists only so people without pms can contact us over discord. People cannot post in it.
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Jan 19, 2021 17:39
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e: nevermind, not starting a slapfight over this stupid poo poo.
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Jan 19, 2021 17:40
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The #1 helldumping rule is to not touch the poop. If you’re going to helldump or mock just observe, don’t try to participate for the lols because that’s super pathetic. That’s been the number one lesson from SA since like 2002 but goons can’t help themselves so they always touch the poop and it gets weird. This goes for everyone - if you want to laugh at how brokebrained you think CSPAM posters are so that and be happy, don’t tell and try to bait their threads to earn extra lol credits. It’s lame as gently caress
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Jan 19, 2021 17:40
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