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fool of sound posted:There are no official D&D discords, other than the one linked in the rules, which exists only so people without pms can contact us over discord. People cannot post in it. Then unofficial. I was not trying to imply this kind of coordination is mod-sanctioned, but I also think it's kinda dumb to pretend it doesn't exist and act like D&D posters just never pay mind to CSPAM because, my, they sure can't wait to legitimately helldump CSPAM as soon as any QCS thread gets started! But there's nothing the mods can do about that, I understand. But there's a pretty big difference between the CSPAM process of "lol this post sucks," and then someone in CSPAM showing up and giving an effort-filled, D&D-compliant response to that post versus D&D brigading which tends to always end up being a QCS thread demanding for the forum to be shut down. Seems a war of mismatched aggression to me!
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Jan 19, 2021 17:52
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I don't see how it matters whether the squabbling is happening in a thread or a discord or QCS, the fact is it's ongoing and it leaks into both CSPAM and D&D and shits up both, apparently. It's not the only thing making USPol a mess, certainly, but it's part of it.
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Jan 19, 2021 17:54
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Probably Magic posted:Then unofficial. I was not trying to imply this kind of coordination is mod-sanctioned, but I also think it's kinda dumb to pretend it doesn't exist and act like D&D posters just never pay mind to CSPAM because, my, they sure can't wait to legitimately helldump CSPAM as soon as any QCS thread gets started! But there's nothing the mods can do about that, I understand. But there's a pretty big difference between the CSPAM process of "lol this post sucks," and then someone in CSPAM showing up and giving an effort-filled, D&D-compliant response to that post versus D&D brigading which tends to always end up being a QCS thread demanding for the forum to be shut down. Seems a war of mismatched aggression to me! Dude anyone can make a discord, cspam has like 20. People talking on discord is not something that the mods rightfully give a drat about.
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Jan 19, 2021 17:56
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Jimbozig posted:No, I post in TG where people who defend rapists or call sexual assault victims liars are punished more than the people who get mad at them. You called anyone who voted for Biden or even tried to talk about voting for him a rape apologist repeatedly how does that foster any sort of discussion?
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Jan 19, 2021 18:00
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There's dumb battle between D&D and CSPAM. I don't follow CSPAM that much or know who's at fault but it's absolutely a thing and really annoying.
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Jan 19, 2021 18:00
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Fritz the Horse posted:I don't see how it matters whether the squabbling is happening in a thread or a discord or QCS, the fact is it's ongoing and it leaks into both CSPAM and D&D and shits up both, apparently. There is either something inherent to the structure of the two forums that creates opposition, or a natural separation of posting culture and norms that come into conflict. People can wipe their feet easily from one to the other, it just so happens that some like to walk through an unmaintained dog park first.
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Jan 19, 2021 18:05
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Stringent posted:Don't? Yeah, why would anyone want to debate or discuss in this forum? What a stupid idea.  e: seriously though, if a person has brought up their own posting history and the specific probes and bans that they personally received, how can that not be fair game? i agree that randomly helldumping people that disagree with you is a bad practice but it seems super weird, and counter to the entire point of the forum, to forbid contradicting people who post wrong facts. posting about your own posting should be an opt-in to others discussing your posts, especially in a thread that is about the quality of posts in the forum!! Muscle Tracer fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Jan 19, 2021 |
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Jan 19, 2021 18:06
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Aruan posted:The #1 helldumping rule is to not touch the poop. If you’re going to helldump or mock just observe, don’t try to participate for the lols because that’s super pathetic. That’s been the number one lesson from SA since like 2002 but goons can’t help themselves so they always touch the poop and it gets weird. This goes for everyone - if you want to laugh at how brokebrained you think CSPAM posters are so that and be happy, don’t tell and try to bait their threads to earn extra lol credits. It’s lame as gently caress Helldump had to be closed for among other reasons, this not really being a viable concept at all.
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Jan 19, 2021 18:14
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UCS Hellmaker posted:
ah so you can whatever you want but cspam can’t make fun of anything in d&d rules for there but not for me
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Jan 19, 2021 18:38
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Thank you for explicitly detailing the exact thing I said and how a thread has to keep being told not to do the exact thing making DnD into a trashfire.
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Raskolnikov38 posted:ah so you can whatever you want but cspam can’t make fun of anything in d&d I don't care if CSPAM makes fun of D&D or D&D makes fun of CSPAM, but people going back and forth between the forums to brag about their sick posting owns is super pathetic. You should be harshly punished if you post in Succ Zone about how you really showed those D&D posters (or vice versa, fair is fair) not because of "brigading" or whatever, but because you're a huge loser. Like, if you truly believe that D&D is full of the worst kind of succdem performative liberals or CSPAM is nothing but stay at home husband hypocrites then why are you posting there. Stop slamming your dick in the door and log off. Owlspiracy fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Jan 19, 2021 |
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Jan 19, 2021 19:26
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Aruan posted:I don't care if CSPAM makes fun of D&D or D&D makes fun of CSPAM, but people going back and forth between the forums to brag about their sick posting owns is super pathetic. You should be harshly punished if you post in Succ Zone about how you really showed those D&D posters (or vice versa, fair is fair) not because of "brigading" or whatever, but because you're a huge loser. If we started enforcing this rule, I think we'd see a big difference. Possibly even more than the proposed changes.
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Jan 19, 2021 19:45
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Not naming any names, butLeper's colony posted:12/30/20 12:58am You've gotten entirely too many sixers and dayprobes lately, and if this incredibly lovely post is any indication, it's long past time to start ramping. User loses posting privileges for 3 days. Leper's colony posted:01/19/21 01:01pm This is why any talk about more serious or consistent moderation rings totally hollow. More than 100 probations on this fine specimen, but I'm sure they've learned their lesson this time!
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Jan 19, 2021 20:12
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User loses posting privileges for 6 hours.
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pacmania90 posted:Not naming any names, but idiot king probations are limited to only 6 hours, they cant give anything more without an admin approving it and the probe from today was an idiot king probe
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Jan 19, 2021 20:19
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socialsecurity posted:You called anyone who voted for Biden or even tried to talk about voting for him a rape apologist repeatedly how does that foster any sort of discussion? No, not anyone. Specific people. The dude who said Biden's heart is in the right place. If anyone said Cosby's heart was in the right place, they'd be justifiably roasted and certainly eat a probation for it. If they said the same thing about Brett Kavanaugh, they'd be justifiably roasted but maybe not get a probe? What I said there would be considered perfectly normal for any other rapist who hasn't paid their debt to society. There is nothing wrong with pointing out that it's hosed up to say that an unrepentant rapist's heart is in the right place. It is a hosed up thing to say. But again, this dissecting of my rap sheet by people who don't have the context sucks. What percentage of all the probations in the USpol threads does my rap sheet encompass? Maybe like a small fraction of a percent. I only used my probations as examples because I know the details. The reason I stopped reading was because there was constant endless fighting over terrible mod decisions making the threads into cliquey slapfights. First, the mods have to stop making such bad calls. Second, they have to be firmer about not letting people bitch in the threads about mod decisions. But they can't do the second until they do the first because the way they mod right now leaves people constantly going "wait what? What was wrong with that post? I don't understand." If a post doesn't violate any rules and if most of a thread thinks it was a good post, it makes no loving sense to give a probation under some vague "bad posting" non-rule. And yet that happened constantly in the election thread and always led to legitimate questions, which turned into whining and bitching. The whining and bitching should not be allowed, but mods make their own jobs a million times harder by making these dumb calls because a) they then have to try figure out where the line is between people trying to understand the rules and people whining about mod decisions, b) they have to deal with the bad behaviour and passive aggression that results from inconsistently applied rules, and c) they encourage unmanageable numbers of reports as people just report people who disagree with them because nobody knows what the rules actually are. If the rules are so vague that nobody can tell when a post crosses a line, how are people supposed to use the report button properly? If mods don't want to deal with endless bullshit reports, they have to be clearer about what is allowed and what is not. You have people getting away with ignoring explicit mod warnings and others getting slapped hard without warning. And everyone thinks that it's about one "side" or the other. But the thing about lovely refs in sports is that they aren't actually out to screw your team specifically. They are just garbage and will screw your team because they suck. It's the same with mods. They aren't trying to do a bad job. They are just failing at doing a good job.
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Jan 19, 2021 20:21
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Mods can only give up to a day without approval as well.
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Jan 19, 2021 20:21
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OJ MIST 2 THE DICK posted:idiot king probations are limited to only 6 hours, they cant give anything more without an admin approving it By and large I think it would be good for there to be a standard that someone is requesting a larger probe when those sixers are being handed out, it would be easier to tell if it was someone being lenient or we just need to wait for a longer probe. I've seen a bunch of cases where people complained and the mods said a larger probe was actually waiting to be approved, and also others where they said they stepped in and put in a request for a longer one since there wasn't one in place. Right now there's no way for us to tell if it's already happening or it's not and we should be complaining
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Jan 19, 2021 20:22
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Jimbozig posted:No, not anyone. Specific people. Your rap sheet is getting dissected because you keep trying to make your point by lying about it. First it was that you were probed by "telling people to protest" (...using the 2nd amendment to seize state capitals), then you got probed for "asking an ik their position on an issue" ( ...in bad faith, after being told to drop the issue), and now you're claiming you were probed for telling off a poster who also ate a probe because of their terrible post about Biden's heart being in the right place regarding Tara Reade. This is also false. Here is the post you were responding to, it was very clearly referring to Biden's tendency to make gaffes and their effect on his ability to govern, i.e. nothing to do with Tara Reade: How are u posted:Biden's gaffe's are pretty low-level-cringe, and it's clear his heart is in the right place. If his administration governs well then I for one can't imagine having much of a problem with them. Note it was also not probed as you claimed. Jarmak fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Jan 19, 2021 |
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Jan 19, 2021 21:18
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Lemming posted:By and large I think it would be good for there to be a standard that someone is requesting a larger probe when those sixers are being handed out, it would be easier to tell if it was someone being lenient or we just need to wait for a longer probe. I've seen a bunch of cases where people complained and the mods said a larger probe was actually waiting to be approved, and also others where they said they stepped in and put in a request for a longer one since there wasn't one in place. Right now there's no way for us to tell if it's already happening or it's not and we should be complaining Please feel free to PM me if it seems like someone who's on a ramp is suddenly only getting a normal sixer again. I've been trying to make sure ramping is done more consistently, but it mostly just ends up being me watching the Leper's Colony for sixers on familiar names and then manually checking to see if they have longer probes waiting, so stuff does slip through sometimes.
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Jan 19, 2021 21:22
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Main Paineframe posted:Please feel free to PM me if it seems like someone who's on a ramp is suddenly only getting a normal sixer again. I've been trying to make sure ramping is done more consistently, but it mostly just ends up being me watching the Leper's Colony for sixers on familiar names and then manually checking to see if they have longer probes waiting, so stuff does slip through sometimes. If ramping is to be a for-sure future policy, it would be worth the infrastructure investment to make giving a ramp an automatic behind-the-counter calculation and make ramp-eligible probes an extra button that a mod/ik presses. e: as is its just a double-plus punishment for being annoying enough for a mod to remember your name, which is not actually a good policy.
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Jan 19, 2021 21:24
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Honestly, if there is any available development bandwidth that can be thrown at the general issues posed by this thread, some kind of semi-automation of ramps, if only through a visual indicator, would probably go a long way to help remove ambiguity from the system by reducing how many deserved ramps accidentally go under the radar. Just looking at the output of the report page, I would imagine it could even be done as a chrome extension fairly easily. e,f,b.
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Jan 19, 2021 21:27
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Long screeds about accusations against public figures every single loving time their name is mentioned are one of the very worst things that happen in these threads. We loving know your position on it. We are not going to relitigate it for ten pages every time someone says the B-word. We can't. So it's just noise. If anything it hurts your own case because people just get so loving sick of it In my opinion
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Jan 19, 2021 21:28
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Main Paineframe posted:Please feel free to PM me if it seems like someone who's on a ramp is suddenly only getting a normal sixer again. I've been trying to make sure ramping is done more consistently, but it mostly just ends up being me watching the Leper's Colony for sixers on familiar names and then manually checking to see if they have longer probes waiting, so stuff does slip through sometimes. Yeah, I was just thinking that if it was more standard to put something in the sixer message about any potential further action was being taken (like "<probe reason>. Probe ramp to follow. User loses posting privileges for 6 hours."), it would be easier to tell if it was already being taken care of and a reminder isn't necessary, or if the sixer was all that was being done and a reminder would be useful. It would avoid the period where people are frustrated even though the wheels are already in motion. I think it's possible this sort of thing contributes to a general bad feeling, since I'm guessing there are lots of times people see the sixer, think "what the gently caress, why is it only a sixer?? Mods are garbage!" and then they miss when it was increased to days/weeks/bans later on Edit: I guess part of my underlying point is that increased understanding about what's actually going on will help regardless, whether it's to make people more comfortable that action is being taken, or when it's clear action isn't so there's a reason to be upset which can be fixed, since if things are unclear it's way easier to have the most uncharitable view of what's going, which makes people pissier in general and more likely to act out themselves, etc
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Jan 19, 2021 21:31
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Please just stop using emotes for your probation reasons, and put the actual reason you're handing out the probation
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Jan 19, 2021 21:38
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Booourns posted:Please just stop using emotes for your probation reasons, and put the actual reason you're handing out the probation As much as cheeky modding is part of the SA tradition I have to agree that this would help a lot given the current environment. It also provides the bonus that making a mod stop and articulate why they're probing someone will occasionally cause them to catch themselves making a bad probe.
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Jan 19, 2021 21:43
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I'm going to be honest about something on my mind these last few months. I've been with d&d since at least lf closed. IM a regular of a couple of threads. I even ran the gay abortions cartoon awards three years in a row. I'm not cspam. I consider myself part of d&d. I also am full on disgusted with how some people (some are in this thread even) here treated Tara Reade's accusation and I still think many here have never come to terms with them willingly ignoring credibly rape accusations because the alternative was worse in their eyes. It lingers and leaves a bad taste. I understand it was a shifty rock and hard place situation but it its still a sore subject. I also tried to be more kind to those I disagree with on it. It still lingers. Don't know. I do know these, what I believe, legitimate concerns being dismissed as a screed or scoring points ain't helping though. Maybe I'm just the bad culture fit now World Famous W fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Jan 19, 2021 |
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Jan 19, 2021 21:44
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Jarmak posted:Your rap sheet is getting dissected because you keep trying to make your point by lying about it. First it was that you were probed by "telling people to protest" (...using the 2nd amendment to seize state capitals), then you got probed for "asking an ik their position on an issue" ( ...in bad faith, after being told to drop the issue), I was absolutely not asking Herstory those questions in bad faith. I keep asking Americans what they are personally doing about the concentration camps in their country because I have a belief that it is every American's responsibility to do something. That's why I've posted about it multiple times (not just the 2 times I got probes related to it). I was not trying to own Herstory. I was trying to get the thread back on track. The timeline was this: Me: brings up thread-relevant topic Some other poster: makes a lovely post about it and gets probed A bunch of other posters: whining at Herstory about the probe. Herstory, after replying to those posters for a while: "Okay, this is done now." Me: Okay, so Herstory, back to the topic before the derail. Your assertion that "this" referred not to the bitching about mod decisions but instead about making on-topic posts is incredibly stupid. It's so stupid that you can't possibly believe it. What's that called? Oh yeah, bad faith. quote:and now you're claiming you were probed for telling off a poster who also ate a probe because of their terrible post about Biden's heart being in the right place regarding Tara Reade. "Cosby's gaffe's about the black community are pretty low-level-cringe, and it's clear his heart is in the right place. If his comedy shows are funny then I for one can't imagine having much of a problem with them." It's the assertion that he can't imagine anyone having a problem with a rapist because the rapist's gaffes are low-level cringe. He can't imagine? For real? Come on. Can you imagine somebody having a problem with Cosby's comedy routines, Jarmak? Would it be fair to characterize anyone opposed to Cosby as having a problem with his gaffes? Would it be fair to say that anyone who has a problem with his routines just has low tolerance for cringe? Really? Come the gently caress on. If you can't see what's wrong with that post, your reading comprehension is worse than I thought. Jimbozig fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Jan 19, 2021 |
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Jan 19, 2021 21:55
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The Bloop posted:Long screeds about accusations against public figures every single loving time their name is mentioned are one of the very worst things that happen in these threads. Good point. Criticism of Trump and McConnell is now banned in D&D. We already know everyone's position on them.
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Jan 19, 2021 22:08
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Jimbozig posted:Fine, if you're going to persist with this poo poo even after the mods explicitly told you to stop, and after I've said multiple times that I'm not interested, then fine. Let's poo poo up this thread some more. (Mods, I know this poo poo sucks, and I'll happily delete this post if you make Jarmak stop.) Let's fix this: The timeline was this: Me: brings up thread-relevant topic Some other poster: makes a lovely post about it and gets probed A bunch of other posters: whining at Herstory about the probe and accusing him of supporting concentration camps Herstory, after replying to those posters for a while: "Okay, this is done now." Me: Okay, so Herstory, back to the topic before the derail: "So do you support closing concentration camps?" Yup, totally good faith question Jimbozig posted:You seem to have a real problem with reading comprehension. Where did I say that post got probed? I didn't. Where did I say that the post was about Tara Reade? I didn't. The whole problem was that the post didn't even mention the elephant in the room before saying he couldn't imagine what anyone's problem was. Imagine someone posted the following: Your lovely metaphor is lovely, but you did show you did exactly what you got probed for: going off on and accusing another poster of being a rape apologist because they said something positive about Biden completely unrelated to Tara Reade. You're correct you never said the other post was probed, that was my bad I misread. Sorry for that one. Jarmak fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Jan 19, 2021 |
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Jan 19, 2021 22:10
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This thread has been open the full two weeks and the last couple pages have been somewhat less productive. I'm closing it. We'll probably have another thread about tweet etc policy in a bit. Thanks to everyone who tried to be constructive in here.
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Jan 19, 2021 22:12
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