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Benne posted:Lynch was a fine choice you nerds so from 2022 onwards is when I'll be mad yearly that SSS didn't make it
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Feb 7, 2021 05:35
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stevonne latrall smith senior? now thats a hofer
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Feb 7, 2021 05:37
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Ronde should've made it before Lynch.
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Feb 7, 2021 07:16
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Jared Allen was robbed.
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Feb 7, 2021 07:19
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1) demarcus ware has been retired for nearly 5 years? Holy poo poo. 2) devin hester will get in first ballot and chaos will reign
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Feb 7, 2021 07:26
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Finally Big Vince Wilfork is gonna get into the Hall of Fame.
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Feb 7, 2021 07:31
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Would devin hester be the first returner to get in just for that reason?
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Feb 7, 2021 07:39
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yes but only because they have foolishly kept Dante Hall out (I'm joking but I wouldn't put Hester in either)
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Feb 7, 2021 10:33
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Hester basically has the Ray Guy case of "if this guy was obviously the best ever at his position, why shouldn't he make the Hall?" The problem with that is Guy took forever to get in because of his hyper-specialized role, and returners have a reputation for being mostly receivers or cornerbacks who aren't good enough to play their actual position full-time. The obvious counter-argument to "he was the best returner ever" is "well why wasn't he any good at WR?" I don't agree with that -- returner is a legitimate position and I think Hester is worthy -- but fair or not, that's going to be the sticking point that could keep him waiting a while. Benne fucked around with this message at 11:04 on Feb 7, 2021 |
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Feb 7, 2021 11:02
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Hester singlehandedly made a part of the game where you could leisurely take a piss to one where you absolutely needed to wait until the commercial break after a change of possession. That’s a real world impact that other players can’t make a claim toward.
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Feb 7, 2021 12:00
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surely a stats nerd somewhere has taken the time to estimate the number of proxy yards Hester gained for the bears by crippling the enemy kicking game
PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 12:45 on Feb 7, 2021 |
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Feb 7, 2021 12:40
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Laslow posted:Hester singlehandedly made a part of the game where you could leisurely take a piss to one where you absolutely needed to wait until the commercial break after a change of possession. That’s a real world impact that other players can’t make a claim toward. You for sure cant tell the story of the nfl in the last 10 to 15 years without him. Thats kinda telling in a way.
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Feb 7, 2021 12:48
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BlindSite posted:You for sure cant tell the story of the nfl in the last 10 to 15 years without him. Thats kinda telling in a way. It is the Hall of 'Fame' and Hester certainly is one of the more famous players of the 21st century. Clearly going with John Lynch over LeRoy Butler this year is an example of valuing fame over on-the-field performance. I guess the question is who do you kick off the list to make room for Hester. If they keep doing 5 modern candidates per year, that's how it works, and I can't imagine voting for Hester over somebody like a Steve Smith or a Dwight Freeney.
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Feb 7, 2021 20:18
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gently caress it I'm predicting the modern HOF entrants for the next three years: 2022: Jared Allen, DeMarcus Ware, Ronde Barber, Steve Smith Sr., Andre Johnson 2023: James Harrison, Darrelle Revis, Joe Thomas, LeRoy Butler, Tony Romo 2024: Antonio Gates, Dwight Freeney, Devin Hester, Julius Peppers, Tony Boselli That's my stone-cold lock of the century, sorry.
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Feb 7, 2021 22:01
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surf rock posted:gently caress it I'm predicting the modern HOF entrants for the next three years: Vince Wilfork? Jahri Evans? gohuskies fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Feb 7, 2021 |
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Feb 7, 2021 22:12
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Gronkowski is still playing. In fact he is going to play in the game today
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Feb 7, 2021 22:15
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nah posted:Gronkowski is still playing. In fact he is going to play in the game today Okay that's embarrassing that I forgot. I was looking at this SI list that is apparently now very wack: https://www.si.com/nfl/talkoffame/nfl/the-future-is-now-here-s-what-s-ahead-for-the-next-five-hall-of-fame-classes I stand by Wilfork and Evans though.
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Feb 7, 2021 22:18
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gohuskies posted:Okay that's embarrassing that I forgot. I was looking at this SI list that is apparently now very wack: https://www.si.com/nfl/talkoffame/nfl/the-future-is-now-here-s-what-s-ahead-for-the-next-five-hall-of-fame-classes I think Romo shouldn't make it (at all, honestly) and it should instead be Evans, but I also think the HOF will feel compelled to put in a quarterback and that Romo is buying a lot of goodwill from the voters through his announcing. I could see Evans going in instead of Boselli. I'm sure he'll make it in his first few years of eligibility, anyway. I feel like Wilfork gets crowded out by other defensive options until 2024 at the earliest. I could see him going in over Freeney or Hester that year, but I think Hester gets in after a couple years of eligibility based on popular support.
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Feb 7, 2021 23:05
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The voters are way more stingy with QBs than people assume (Peyton is the first QB inducted since 2017, and only 3 got voted in the entire 2010s). If you think Eli and Rivers are borderline cases then Romo isn't even close.
Benne fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Feb 7, 2021 |
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Feb 7, 2021 23:19
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John Lynch selection really puzzling--both Butler and Ronde Barber(who was on his same team!) seem like way better choices for DBs. I don't remember Lynch ever having any iconic plays in his career and it looks like he never even scored a TD. Romo definitely not HOF worthy but certainly an awesome and unfairly maligned at times player. Rivers and Eli also shouldn't. Steve Smith Sr should definitely get in but will probably take 2-3 ballots. Faneca getting in means Yanda will get in too and probably faster. Suggs probably will get in on 2nd or 3rd ballot. Boldin should get in, I don't see arguments why he shouldn't be if certain others are in. If he doesn't get in though I blame Cam Cameron--trying to force Boldin into his scheme instead of adjusting it to incorporate him screwed his production in Baltimore just enough to the point that it will keep him from getting in on his 2nd or 3rd ballot to probably a lot longer if that. Holt gets in on the same argument as Boldin. Minus the Ravens stuff. Kawalimus fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Feb 8, 2021 |
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Feb 7, 2021 23:58
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Devin Hester is not only the greatest returner of all time he will be the greatest returner of all time forever because of the way the game is changing to make kickoff returns less common. Someday a dad will take a kid to the hall and the kid will see videos of Hester returning a kickoff for a TD at the Super Bowl and ask “wait what are they doing?” And it will be nice to have one guy who represents that. IMO that’s an even better case than Ray Guy because there’s still a possibility that there’s been a better punter or there might be a better punter
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Feb 8, 2021 00:04
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Boldin has poor awards (a mediocre three Pro Bowl selections) relative to other candidates and his career production isn’t automatic Hall of Fame material. Unless you think someone like Henry Ellard should be in, Boldin shouldn’t. That one championship will be doing a lot of the work if he happens to get in.
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Feb 8, 2021 00:09
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I guess the only counterpoint to that is that Anquan Boldin was unquestionably better than most WRs in the hall. His counting stats are poo poo due to career circumstance, not talent.
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Feb 8, 2021 00:15
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King Hong Kong posted:Boldin has poor awards (a mediocre three Pro Bowl selections) relative to other candidates and his career production isn’t automatic Hall of Fame material. Unless you think someone like Henry Ellard should be in, Boldin shouldn’t. That one championship will be doing a lot of the work if he happens to get in. I don't know much about Ellard. But Boldin had a great postseason in 2012 and a bunch of the years he missed pro bowls were either due to missing a few games due to injuries or just inexplicable. Like in 2005 it says he had 102 receptions for 1402 yards in only 14 games, and still somehow didn't make the pro bowl. That can't be held against him. His SB performances were both strong and he was offensive rookie of the year. To me he is in. And if the Ravens had used him right it would be a lot more certain.
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Feb 8, 2021 00:18
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surf rock posted:gently caress it I'm predicting the modern HOF entrants for the next three years: gently caress it!
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Feb 8, 2021 00:19
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eli manning has a better case than boldin
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Feb 8, 2021 00:21
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Cavauro posted:eli manning has a better case than boldin I don't agree and the positions are too different.
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Feb 8, 2021 00:27
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the things you said there are the only arguments that can be made against it including the silent, "he was on my team."
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Feb 8, 2021 00:29
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Cavauro posted:the things you said there are the only arguments that can be made against it including the silent, "he was on my team." He was my guy even before he was on my team. In fact my 2nd favorite team became that because of him. But you've seen how I talk about my own team and I would gladly say he's not HOF if I didn't think he was even if he was on my team.
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Feb 8, 2021 00:30
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Hm. Irrelevant words
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Feb 8, 2021 00:30
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I think Heap, McAlister and Boulware all had the talent to be in the hall of fame but due to circumstances didn't have the careers they needed to to get there. I think Boldin did but he is borderline because of the Ravens years where his production was lower than the years both preceding and succeeding. But the 2012 postseason redeems those years a bit. And how Joe Flacco threw more picks than TDs that year after losing Boldin helps show how valuable he really was.
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Feb 8, 2021 00:33
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Cavauro posted:eli manning has a better case than boldin So does Hines Ward lol
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Feb 8, 2021 00:34
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D-LINK posted:So does Hines Ward lol No he doesn't!
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Feb 8, 2021 00:36
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I don't care about the similar cased receiver squabbles. Eli Manning has a better case than them
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Feb 8, 2021 00:37
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Kawalimus posted:No he doesn't! At least Hines has a SB MVP
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Feb 8, 2021 00:38
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D-LINK posted:At least Hines has a SB MVP I'm not holding that against him. Boldin was 2nd or 3rd in line for SB MVP after Flacco in our SB though.
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Feb 8, 2021 00:39
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Catching up:gohuskies posted:Edge rusher and WR are two super crowded position groups with who's up now and who's coming in the next few years. Through 2024, Mathis is competing with Jared Allen, DeMarcus Ware, Dwight Freeney, James Harrison, and Julius Peppers, and Boldin is up against Torry Holt, Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, Steve Smith, and Jordy Nelson. I don't see Mathis or Boldin being in the top 3 of either of those lists. That's why I said years, which could easily by 5-10. Mathis in particular feels like the sort of guy who sneaks in 10 or 15 years later, or maybe as a senior nominee, as everything about him is an edge case. For all the Anquan Boldin chat: He's another edge case that will have to wait a while. The easiest guy to compare him to is Reggie Wayne, as both have similar numbers. Currently, Boldin is 9th in receptions, while Reggie is just six catches behind him in 10th place. Reggie is 10th all time in receiving yards, while Boldin is 14th, with 566 less. Both are tied for 25th all time in receiving touchdowns (With Jimmy Graham lol) at 82. Both have a Super Bowl win and a loss, both played 14 seasons and retired at 36. Boldin has 3 Pro Bowls and Offensive Rookie of the Year, while Wayne has 6 Pro Bowls and an All-Pro. If you want to look at playoff stats and compare them, you're already going beyond what any voter will likely do, but Reggie has an edge there in raw numbers, but also played 6 more games. The individual awards will give an edge to Reggie Wayne, and I think him being a big part of the Colts during Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck's years will give him a slight boost. The wide receiver position usually was tricky to gauge, as the Hall made a bunch of guys wait, but them putting Megatron in this year makes me wonder if that trend may be changing a bit in the future. 2022 is gonna be pretty interesting. Andre Johnson is also in the same range for career stats as Boldin and Wayne, with seven Pro Bowls and two All-Pro seasons, but did it playing mostly for a forgotten Houston Texans team and doesn't have a ring. Steve Smith is also in that same general area, stats wise. This might end up creating a similar delay like we had with the 90's receivers like Andre Reed, Tim Brown, and Cris Carter, where they all effectively split their votes for a few years before breaking through. I think DeMarcus Ware is probably the most likely to be a first ballot guy, but I wouldn't call him a certain lock to go in next year. Devin Hester will really be the most interesting guy, as basically everyone who saw him would agree the dude was amazing, but the voters are mostly dumb sportswriters, so it may be a rehash of the debates over guys like Ray Guy and Morten Andersen. Tony Romo is not going in as a player anytime soon, even with the massive boost he gets from being a fantastic announcer. The raw numbers and awards aren't there, and frankly, it's too recent. Look how long it took while he was playing for people to acknowledge how good he was, how inconsistent his supporting casts were at times, or how bad the coaching was. An easy comparison to him was Don Meredith, the Cowboys QB from the 60's before Craig Morton and Roger Staubach, who later became one of the most memorably parts of Monday Night Football in the 70's. AFAIK, he never sniffed the Hall. Romo's best case as a player is way down the line or perhaps as a Senior Nominee.
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Feb 8, 2021 01:04
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One thing with Boldin is you basically have to look at the 2005 season he had as an all-pro year. Even if he didn't get selected to pro bowl or all-pro that year, it was his best overall year and easily could have been. I don't know what was going on in the NFL that year why he didn't make it. But that's not his fault. Also you look at years like 2007 and just because of the physical nature of his style of play he misses a bunch of games. And only starts 11 games. But still gets 71 catches for 853 yards and 9 TD. That's a season you can pretty much give a pro bowl selection to also if he's not injured. In 2008 he makes the pro bowl playing only in 11 games with 89 catches for 1038 yards and 11 TDs. I think it's fair to give him another all-pro selection for that rate of production. Again to me without those three Ravens years that strongly suppressed his production, he is easily a 2-3 ballot guy.
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Feb 8, 2021 01:16
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drat that's a poo poo load of having a worse case than Eli
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Feb 8, 2021 01:24
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kawa is sad that boldin traded a hof career to win a ring with the greatest franchise of all time, the baltimore ravens. but i am not I'm glad he did it
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Feb 8, 2021 01:40
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