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AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

Ablative posted:

You know, I used to like libraries as a kid.


But never this one. gently caress this level. I might have had more trouble navigating the last one, but this one is still just... so dull. So endlessly, painfully dull.
Agreed. I hated this level back in the day, and no amount of upscaled graphics can salvage what amounts to "a long boring walk, with some lore/foreshadowing for the future". The only saving grace with this version is that thanks to the subtitles, some of what Guilty Spark says can now be heard or read by the player. Frenzy wasn't kidding that between the gunfire, explosions and the massive swarms of enemies, the important poo poo Guilty Spark is saying gets drowned out and you can miss stuff. And on top of all of this, you have the only sentient being that can talk acting like the player knows what is going with the Flood, when the game only just introduced them last level. Thus, you have Guilty Spark acting like it's another day at the office while the Chief (and the player, by extension) has no idea what the gently caress is going on nor why there so much padding to get to the Index.

That said, I want to say this is the first time in Halo 1 you can find plasma weapons with a full 100% battery charge. All of the other ones dropped by the Covenant up to this point have been anywhere between 60% and 90% battery on average. I always assumed that the battery drain scaled with how much enemies shot at you, but nope, it looks like a Combat form can unload several shots and somehow not drain the battery on plasma weapons.

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AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

For the longest time, I did not know this was the same Covenant ship from earlier in the game. I took Cortana's statement at the start of the level to mean that this ship was a second Covenant ship that got left behind in the chaos of the Flood appearing, and all of the Covenant troops in the level were launched from the Truth and Reconciliation in a desperate bid to scuttle it before the Flood took over.

Also, I completely forgot the first part of the level. I remember Cortana warping you in upside down, but after that, everything else is a blur until you get back onto the ship. I genuinely do not remember the whole "jump into the pool of coolant from a warship reactor" section.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

FrenzyTheKillbot posted:

I totally forgot this detail. I actually am wrong in the commentary where I say the spec ops elites are there to destroy the ship. Cortana says in the opening cutscene that they are trying to repair it for some reason, although maybe they'd destroy it out in space to avoid damaging the ring.
If the plan is "get the ship flight-capable, then blow it up in space off the ring", then I have no idea what the Covenant commander is thinking. The sheer amount of risk involved would far outweighs the benefits of such a plan. I could buy that the Covenant are trying to render the ship inoperable (damage the reactor/engines/weapons beyond repair, for instance), but getting the ship off the ground just seems like an exercise in futility. Unless the Covenant believes that too many of their engineers/mechanics were assimilated by the Flood (thus potentially giving the Flood knowledge of how to repair the Truth and Reconciliation), then I could see why they'd go for this absolutely bonkers plan.

Granted, I've never touched the Halo novels, so it's entirely possible the novels explain this part of the game better than what's in the main game.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

McTimmy posted:

The novel reveals there's a minor Prophet aboard the ship.
Well, that definitely reframes the opening of Halo 2 in a different light.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

ModernMajorGeneral posted:

I know it probably goes into some external slot that has no direct communication with his body, but I was always uncomfortable about how Chief is fine with the chip covered in infectious space zombie goo being jammed straight into his head, as long as he gives it a bit of shake first.
I've always seen that as a quiet indication of how desperate the situation has become. The Flood are spreading rapidly across Halo, so Chief has no real time to not only mourn the death of his commanding officer, but to properly clean the Flood goop off of Keyes' implants before plugging them into his suit. He has to get to the Pillar of Autumn and blow up the reactors immediately or else the Flood will find a way off of Halo and become the widespread galactic threat they have been alluded to being in the past.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

The talk about LAN parties at the end made me age 5000 years in an instant. Thank you for making me feel that old.

I am looking forward to Halo 2 and the surge of big name talent that came in to do the voice work/soundtrack.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

FrenzyTheKillbot posted:

Halo 2 - TV Commercial - And this is the regular old TV commercial also shown in late 2004. This trailer is mostly made up of actual gameplay clips and dialogue from the final game, which can give you an idea of what to expect. There is actually a minute-long version of this commercial out there, but I didn't include it because the best original resolution I could find was 180 vertical pixels (!) after removing black bars and my upscaling efforts looked awful.
Now, this commercial I do remember appearing a lot on TV back in the day. It managed to give us a good look at things to come and had some very clever use of in-game dialogue to help hype up the game. That final line from the Prophet of Truth makes more sense in-context, but it works wonderfully as a hook to a game trailer.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

I love that the vice admiral is so insignificant that he's represented with a Lego figure in the recap.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

Mr. Fortitude posted:

I also hear that Bungie are trying to cram in ties to the Marathon trilogy in Destiny as well. That'll create an even bigger clusterfuck.
At this point, I'd tell Bungie to say "gently caress it" and drop Halo references in as well, but with the rights to the series being under Microsoft's control I imagine that'd be a bit difficult to do and get away with, even though Bungie are the original creators.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

Ah yes, Halo 2. This is the one I spent the most time with, especially since it came out during my freshman year in college and everyone was all over it. I absolutely love the dumb bomb delivery cutscene, simply because it is pure action movie nonsense and I love it. And out of the new weapons, like many, I fell in love with the battle rifle and tried to use it as far as I could before needing something else.

But yeah, Drones are really loving annoying. I appreciate the decision to add a flying enemy to spice things up, but did they really have to make one that refuses to hold still for more than 2 minutes? I honestly lost track how much ammo I burned through just trying to hit one drat Drone.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

Ah yes, good old Jackal Alley. I've honestly lost track of how many times that section kicked my rear end on the higher difficulties. There is a special place in hell for whoever at Bungie came up with the idea for Jackal snipers.

Although, it seems that the MCC lost the instrumental version of Blow Me Away for when the Hunters appear. I'm going to guess dumb stupid licensing issues?

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

Ablative posted:

They did lose the license, but it didn't play there to begin with. You're thinking of something pretty far down the line.
Ah, drat my selective memory.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

Ablative posted:

Those fuckers don't even need to be looking at you to kill you on Legendary. They will shoot behind themselves, full 180 to their facing angle.


And they show up on the rooftops in the holding section on Legendary, too. If you needed more reason to just go roof hopping.
The other issue with Jackals is that, especially in the original engine, they could very easily blend into the background because of their tan skin color. So, your only notification that there was a Jackal sniper in the immediate area was either the beam rifle shot killing you, or you getting lucky because the Jackal missed you on their first shot.

The updated graphics do seem to change the lighting a bit to make them slightly more visible, but even then, the ones on the upper floors in Jackal Alley are still far enough back/obstructed by other objects that they're hard to see.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

So, here we have some of the new voice talent for Halo 2. If memory serves, the female marine at the start is a young Michelle Rodriguez, while Sgt. Banks is Orlando Jones.

Although, I am saddened that the MCC removed one of the sillier things from the Scarab destruction cutscene. In the original, you'd walk out of the wreckage with whatever weapon you had equipped when you finish the level, so you could walk out while holding the rocket launcher or the sniper rifle. And in the case of the latter, it'd clip through the ground since Master Chief's model is (presumably) designed around him holding the much shorter battle rifle or SMG.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

SteelMentor posted:

Huh, I thought I was misremembering Johnson's quippy speech from the opening cutscene but I went back and yeah, they changed everything between "Listen up" and "What about that Scarab". Did they change that for MCC or Anniversary?

Not that the new lines are bad, but it's a weird change.
That dialogue is one of those "changes based on your difficulty" bits that happens from time to time. Frenzy captured the Normal difficulty speech, so you might be remembering either Heroic or Legendary's version.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

It does raise the question of whether or not the Covenant have heard the UNSC forces mention Earth off-hand or refer to themselves as Earthlings. As mentioned in First Strike, the Covenant were still doing ground sweeps on Reach until recently, and I imagine that there had to be a stray mention of Earth somewhere in the UNSC files that either got seized by the Covenant before getting deleted or found via interrogating captured prisoners. If the Covenant haven't heard humans refer to themselves as Earthlings, then that is some extremely strict adherence to the Cole Protocol by the UNSC that has kept their home world's name a secret from the enemy. If the Covenant have heard the word "Earthling" used by now, then that makes them look extremely dumb for not piecing things together.

From how Halo 2 frames it, I think the player is meant to assume that the Covenant thought Reach was the human home world. Thus, that planet's been captured and in the minds of the Prophets, humanity is on the back foot and weakened despite the destruction of Halo. Hence why Regret jumps into Earth's general vicinity with such a small fleet: he's expecting Earth to be this uninhabited backwater planet, not a major enemy stronghold.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

So, joining Keith David in the celebrity voices group are Miguel Ferrer as our Heretic, while our Spec-Ops Leader is Robert Davi. Davi is interesting because as far as I know, this is the only video game role Robert Davi ever took in his career.

And count me in the group of people who didn't realize this was a facility literally next to the Halo ring from the first game. I definitely remember the cutscene of them leaving High Charity, but I assumed they were flying off to a different planet altogether that had been occupied by the heretics.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

Loxbourne posted:

The energy sword had to occupy a funny slot in the game design, so I can see why Bungie did what they did with it. The player can already perform one-hit-kill melee attacks from stealth, so the sword needs to have a "better" attack to make it worth using. So it can 1HK in a charge attack from out of stealth. That makes it absurdly good so players will use it all the time, so Bungie needed a cap...and we get the rather silly sword with an ammo meter.

In practice it is fiddlier than it looks.
IIRC, it is easy to accidentally catapult yourself off a ledge doing the energy sword charge attack if your target dodges/moves to the side as you're charging. Up to and including killing yourself because you launched yourself into a bottomless pit.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

Man, do I remember how annoying the elevator section was on higher difficulties. It just feels like padding to stretch the level out, and not even the good kind of padding because as you guys said, you're essentially waiting until the game tells you that you can proceed. What's worse is that design philosophy is rampant throughout Halo 2, although I think the Arbiter gets the brunt of the "stay in this zone until the game lets you move on" sections. Which, when you're trying to sell a new playable character, is maybe not the best idea to make said character appeal to players.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

I had no idea about the hidden soccer ball. That is an interesting and weird secret to hide away in Metropolis.

The hidden sniper rifle spot kind of makes me wonder if, in an earlier draft, you'd be encouraged to traverse the rooftops in order to proceed in Outskirts. Because that spot looks like it was set up as a sniper's nest where you'd either stumble across a dead marine sharpshooter + their spotter, or be the spot where you'd have a shooting gallery while you deal with waves of enemies in one of Halo 2's "stay put until the game lets you move on" zones.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

Add me to the list of people who never stopped to listen to Regret's sermons. It is interesting that those sermons actually function as (almost certainly heavily biased) backstory to the Covenant, but you can easily miss them because it takes a while before Cortana's translation kicks in and lets the player hear the dialogue.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

So, relocating large structures in their entirety is a thing that has happened in the real world. There's Abu Simbel, an ancient Egyptian temple complex that had to be moved in the 1960s because the construction of a dam in the region would have both flooded the temples and submerged them beneath the new reservoir that would result from the dam. I would not be surprised if that was some inspiration for Bungie in creating these Forerunner structures, given that it is a fusion of ancient stone and Forerunner technology. Much like how the present-day Abu Simbel is ancient stone held together by modern reinforcing.

Unfortunately, now we reach the low point of Halo 2, the Library complex. I will not blame you if you take a page out of Cooked Auto's book and wedge a boulder on the fast forward button for most of the level.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

I was definitely among those who never realized the burning structure you go through was the Sentinel Factory downed in the previous section. I assumed it was a section of the Library that was overrun by the Flood due to the Flood gaining control of UNSC/Covenant heavy weapons.

I did note the MCC makes a tiny cosmetic change to the ending cutscene. Miranda wields one SMG in the MCC version, but in the original version, she was dual-wielding SMGs. I guess they figured the captain of a ship wouldn't realistically go full John Woo Action HeroTM on their enemies after the fact, thus made the change for the updated re-release.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

Glad to hear things are working out for you now.

As for the video content, I do remember the alternate booklet for Halo 2, as that was the one a lot of dormmates in college wound up getting (I think like 5 got the Covenant one and 2 got the normal human booklet). It was a very interesting twist that didn't click for us until the Arbiter's levels came up. Then we realized why there was an alternate booklet; it was a way to flesh out the world and not some silly marketing gimmick like some of us thought it was. Of course, back then it was still a paltry summation of the Covenant compared to the current amount of lore for the series.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

IIRC, the Brutes using the human shotgun in Halo 2 is because Bungie didn't have enough time to give them what would become the rest of their unique weapons seen in Halo 3/ODST, so the human shotgun is a quick and dirty stand-in solution (much like the Brute Plasma Rifle) for what should be the Brute equivalent of a shotgun (the Mauler, if memory serves). Given how Halo 2 is known to have cut content like cut levels, it would not surprise me if that extended to minor details like weaponry.

That said, I will agree that level is very much a filler level. There's just nothing I remember about this level, outside of the armory room with human weapons. You could start with the cutscene of the Arbiter being warped into the area and merge it with him running into Half-jaw's Wraith and not lose anything of value.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

Loxbourne posted:

And there's the big cliffhanger ending that drove the internet nuts for a while. There was both excitement and anger over that - I remember a lot of sneering that Microsoft was "obviously" planning to sell the "proper ending" as an expansion pack over XBox Live.

We now know it was heavily cut. Material leaked has shown an entire third act was originally planned (I think the figure of nine cut levels was cited in an interview somewhere). We already know about the cut level on the Covenant carrier that now blows up in a cutscene. A mission on the burning ruins of the original Halo was apparently cut, as part of a road trip racing across the galaxy to get back to Earth. Supposedly there would have been a big final defence of Earth with the Arbiter and Master Chief "kicking rear end". At a guess, the entire first act of Halo 3 was intended to be in 2.
That kind of makes it sound like the First Strike novel was meant to be the first act of Halo 2, but then got shunted off to the Halo EU as a result of the reworking of the game. I could even see the pit stop on Reach from the novel being the place where Master Chief upgrades to the new Mjolnir armor instead of on Cairo Station (with Dr. Halsey being the one to explain how the new armor works, for instance).

I do enjoy looking back on this game because, now that I'm older, I do see the gaps in the story more clearly that were meant to be filled in with other content as opposed to going "Okay, the next level will explain things clearly" over and over again like I did back in the day. Halo 2 has its moments, but it definitely has a lot of weak connective tissue that falls apart if you pause and look around at things, such as the Covenant civil war just crashing into the final act out of nowhere with almost no build-up outside of a few background moments in cutscenes. A sophomore slump is a perfect summary of the game: a underwhelming single-player campaign, higher difficulties being immensely merciless and unforgiving compared to the first game, all bolstered by the growing multiplayer side of the game that effectively saves Halo 2 from being a flop.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

I got a chuckle at the Grunt being launched over the Pelican after it bombarded the dam.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

I do not like the recasting of Truth. Yes, the late Terence Stamp is a good actor/voice actor, but Michael Wincott's smooth performance in Halo 2 was such a masterpiece, that for Halo 3 to effectively devolve Truth into "generic loud arrogant evil dude" is a major misstep. I understand that stuff like scheduling and all that probably factored into the recasting, but there's an equal amount of blame to be laid at Bungie's feet for the voice direction/script turning a very suave villain into a paint-by-numbers generic villain. Just...why? You had a solid foundation for Truth's character. You didn't need to change it, Bungie.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

FrenzyTheKillbot posted:

The one thing that has always stuck out to me is that none of the corpses around him show any sign of flood-ification, even though he's describing full combat forms. I still wonder whether it's supposed to be implied that he saw some of the Flood and just killed everyone around him, infected or not, and that's why he's so screwed up trying to rationalize it.
I honestly wonder if it's a case of "Whoops, we put the wrong corpse models on the ground. That's our bad." that hasn't been fixed since 2007.

The other option is that this poor sap has been fighting almost non-stop since Regret's fleet arrived on Earth's doorstep and has finally hit a breaking point with the Flood now arriving and making things worse, not helped by the fact that the Elites (essentially the "face" of the Covenant forces) are showing up and giving none of the infected any quarter or mercy. Much like the Covenant have been doing for nearly 30 years prior.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

I'm more amazed you didn't take a moment to outfit the other Hornet rider with a better weapon than the pistol.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

Serenity came out in 2005, so it definitely lines up with Halo 3's dev cycle timeline.

And I completely agree with the "I'm a thief, but I keep what I steal." line being very important, Frenzy. When the new Halo ring appeared at the end of the level, I immediately realized what Cortana is talking about when she said that line.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

The sphincter doors are their own level of :wtc:. The fact they still hold up 15 years later with outdated graphics is a testament to the effort put into making them as disturbing as gently caress.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

Ablative posted:

I'd be surprised if he had any control authority at all, given, again, all the engines and poo poo were in the back. He's probably just lucky he came out on the ocean side of the portal.
The "Miracle on the Hudson" showed that if you have both the right mindset and patience, you can glide a Boeing 737 into a water landing with both engines knocked out of commission. I imagine a frigate like the Dawn would be a similar case...which raises a different question: when did the Arbiter find the time to learn about how UNSC ships are controlled? At best, the past few weeks have been the longest he's been near UNSC ships without blowing them up himself. So either the UNSC and the Covenant have near-identical control setups for their ships, or the Arbiter took time to read an operations manual during some off-screen downtime. Or he took the Master Chief approach of "gently caress it, we'll do it live!" and winged it to the end and managed to not die in a crash landing.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

Grizzwold posted:

The whole reason the halos worked in the first place is that the Flood need things with a central nervous system to eat and died out when they didn’t have them though?
Installation 05 showed that the Flood could keep on going without such targets for thousands of years, just barely able to stay alive and fight off the Sentinels, even if Halo 2 did a poor job explaining it. It was only after Regret's forces and the In Amber Clad dropped in that the Flood were able to get the strength to overpower the Sentinels and let the Gravemind escape onto High Charity. In particular, the Flood got access to heavy weaponry (rocket launchers/fuel rod cannons, tanks and other heavy vehicles, and the In Amber Clad itself) and used those weapons to turn what was a manageable containment breach into a full-on unsalvageable disaster.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

Samovar posted:

It's not his fault, obviously, but having what's -his-face being the face and voice model of the leader of the ODST team is very, very dated.
Frenzy did mention that Firefly's follow-up film did inspire parts of Halo 3 (specifically, the deaths of Miranda and Johnson), and Fillion was around to voice NPC chatter for 3, so I would not be surprise if ODST's casting was born from Fillion and co. talking with the ADR people and it went from there.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

Ablative posted:

Point of contention: that can't be the real Chips Dubbo because the real Chips Dubbo is on In Amber Clad. This is an impostor.
For all we know, there's a secret Chips Dubbo cloning project funded by the UNSC and we met one of the backup versions.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

So, I take it that any debris from the space elevator once it collapses counts as a lethal projectile, right? Or does Dutch get a small reprieve in that he managed to drive down the single roadway that major debris didn't hit?

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

Kibayasu posted:

I guess the drone is supposed to have watched that whole fight because otherwise its just a random piece of debris that somehow tells the story of that level.
It probably would have fit better if it was a Warthog wreck that the Rookie stumbles upon, but I think part of the reason the drone optics is used instead ties into what Cythreal said: you can be driving various vehicles for the level all the way to the end and the game acknowledges it in some way via cutscenes. So, in that scenario, you'd have to have a clue that reacts to Dutch's vehicle choice at the end of the level and you'd have to create game files to respond to each choice (Warthog, Ghost, Chopper, I'm assuming Wraith as well) to load in. Thus, the drone gets used because that's something that isn't tied to Dutch's actions and saves resources/time creating game assets.

Plus, it creates a bridge between Buck's comment at the end of his level (Buck musing about using the drone network to find the rest of the squad) and the start of Dutch's level (Dutch seeing the drones flying overhead watching the battle unfold).

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

It's safe to assume that Brute Hammers are part of the list of "Things ODST cannot arbitrarily interact with, but Master Chief can", right?

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AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

FrenzyTheKillbot posted:

My second thought was that it's nice to see someone involved with Halo holding a rifle properly. I've been watching the Halo TV show and actually enjoying it, but the first episode had so much shooting and basically no character either knew how, or was unable to hold a rifle correctly due to their costume. Drove me a little crazy.

edit: After a quick re-watch of that scene it's not as bad as I was remembering. But the Spartans look awkward as hell holding rifles still.

edit2:

One of the clips that's been making the rounds from the show is the Chief throwing down a rifle because he gets surprised by the enemy. When the clip starts, the rifle is clearly a practical prop made to look like the Assault Rifle. However, when John throws the rifle away, it smash cuts to a blatantly CGI rifle on the ground instead of the actual prop the actor was holding literally milliseconds ago. I'm starting to wonder if the prop budget was so strained that the crew had to instruct the actors to not hold the weapon props like they would a normal gun because they were worried the props would break with a normal grip.

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