Ohtori Akio posted:One of the most important aspects of most religious practice is that it is extremely social. How many different traditions have figured out a specific way to have a cup of tea or coffee together after the service? Also you do not have to justify your presence, generally speaking.
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# ? Apr 10, 2024 22:39 |
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# ? May 21, 2024 15:01 |
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If people could please offer prayers or invoke something for me and my Mrs. The government of my country may be banning trans stuff and she is really going through it because of it. Edit: Not teams stuff, trans stuff, sorry everyone. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Apr 11, 2024 |
# ? Apr 11, 2024 00:21 |
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That was a really interesting post Bird. I didn't realise how much Egyptian spirituality has echos in the so-called Western canon.
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# ? Apr 11, 2024 10:00 |
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Apparently "A Course in Miracles" sees itself as an illusion. It's the last illusion to go.
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# ? Apr 11, 2024 13:06 |
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My pleasure Squid. Organizing my thoughts here in ways that can help other people apprehend their own thoughts is a satisfying and joyful thing for me, and an honor. I appreciate the opportunities. Religion bein social Josef bugman posted:If people could please offer prayers or invoke something for me and my Mrs. The government of my country may be banning trans stuff and she is really going through it because of it. I'm sorry Josef. May justice remember to fulfill its name and that ban never come to pass. It is a terrible thing to realize the people in your government think you, or someone you care about, or any person that experiences some aspect of life in a different way than they do, is less human than they are, deserves less dignity and agency and choice than they always believe they do. But just because selfish people think that of others doesn't make it true. Gender affirmation matters; people caring about it matters. People matter. Your wife matters. May she experience relief soon from what she is feeling now, and may relief make way not for resignation but for purpose.
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# ? Apr 11, 2024 15:15 |
Josef bugman posted:If people could please offer prayers or invoke something for me and my Mrs. The government of my country may be banning trans stuff and she is really going through it because of it. That really sucks, you both will be in my prayers.
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# ? Apr 11, 2024 15:20 |
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Thank you both. I'm just so tired atm, I keep wanting to cry because she's so kind and wonderful and yet life just won't leave her alone with me to have a happy and "normal" life. It feels so monstrously unjust.
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# ? Apr 11, 2024 18:38 |
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Josef bugman posted:If people could please offer prayers or invoke something for me and my Mrs. The government of my country may be banning trans stuff and she is really going through it because of it.
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# ? Apr 11, 2024 19:00 |
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If I may, since this is the religion thread, I wanted to share something that's part of my own personal religion, and is also relevant since it has come up in the aforementioned prayers. I have sometimes heard this story about a gay person, living deep in the closet in a place deeply homophobic, used to call into gay bars. Not to talk to anyone, but just to listen to the people there laughing, listening to music, flirting, having fun. If I recall correctly, he said it was because knowing that others were out there living closer to their authentic selves than he currently could, and importantly, enjoying them, made him happy, and gave hope that one day he could do so too. I'm out of the closet now, but out or in, I always find this story to be moving and relevant. I feel much the same way as that whenever society/other people aren't as accepting of my authentic self as I might have hoped. Whether that's a new bill passing denying rights I already have, or someone just denying me service for something extralegally. Also, a big part of my spiritual connection to the Deities I follow in my religious rituals is Vibrations, in all their forms: music, speech, dance, rhythms of life and sound, memory/thought (mind chemical vibrations). To Them, all of these things can simply be random, but they can also convey deep meaning, if they're woven with that intention. Music can be babbling subconsciousness songs, or can be carefully assembled masterworks that elucidate deep truths about existence. Speech can inspire all sorts of emotions, from fear, despair, and terror, to hope, courage, and love. Dance can be freeform whatever feels good, or a very structured, organized thing that conveys a lot of intentional effort, if no other emotions. Thoughts can lead us toward unhealthy actions/inactions, or they can lead us toward healthier ones. Because these vibrations convey communications in my prayers, and in the Deities' responses to them, I always have at least one being out there to be connected to, even if I ever lose access to all other communication with the outside world. I still have my connection to Them and the other beings they know, reminding me that better days are happening, and will happen for me too. Like a big bar of souls I can call to listen in on when I need that. Also a strong reminder to cherish the connections I have now, while I still have them.
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# ? Apr 11, 2024 22:34 |
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I read the section on Dialectic today. Plotinus talks about how different types of people reach the absolute. Lovers, musicians and metaphysicians. For metaphisicians he advises the study of mathematics followed by the study of dialectics. Wow maybe the 6 years studying math followed by 12 years as a marxist wasn't a waste afterall. Unconciously I've been moving through the steps of neoplatonist initiation.
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# ? Apr 12, 2024 15:19 |
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Prurient Squid posted:I read the section on Dialectic today. Plotinus talks about how different types of people reach the absolute. Lovers, musicians and metaphysicians. sometimes i feel like this is how our conception of self-actualization works. like, i spent 10 years studying music rudiments so that i could get into the wild perotin-leonin math theorem poo poo, or learn about scriabin wanting to write a symphony to bring about the apocalypse, or think about the purposes of like the hurrian hymns. i think maybe this is how we train up our brains to do higher-level thinking. or maybe the western concept of education is built upon neoplatonist convention (sinnesloeschen, you dingus)
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# ? Apr 12, 2024 20:53 |
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spending ten years studying european tonality to post about how its aids
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# ? Apr 12, 2024 21:08 |
sinnesloeschen posted:sometimes i feel like this is how our conception of self-actualization works. like, i spent 10 years studying music rudiments so that i could get into the wild perotin-leonin math theorem poo poo, or learn about scriabin wanting to write a symphony to bring about the apocalypse, or think about the purposes of like the hurrian hymns. i think maybe this is how we train up our brains to do higher-level thinking. Time permitting, of course.
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# ? Apr 12, 2024 21:09 |
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Good news, time isn't real
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# ? Apr 12, 2024 21:35 |
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Ohtori Akio posted:spending ten years studying european tonality to post about how its aids i hated common practice part writing exercises so fuckin much that i remember taking gyorgy ligeti's atmospheres into my junior HS music theory class and telling mrs. june that i wouldnt do em ever again she threatened to fail me so lol
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# ? Apr 13, 2024 00:33 |
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ALTOS AND TENORS ARE INTERCHANGEABLE I DONT GIVE A FUQ
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# ? Apr 13, 2024 00:33 |
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the difference between a contralto and a tenor is gender
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# ? Apr 13, 2024 00:35 |
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Ohtori Akio posted:the difference between a contralto and a tenor is gender not even that in 2024!
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# ? Apr 13, 2024 00:50 |
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Today's Course in Miracles is to ask "Father, what is your plan for salvation?" and then listen for the reply. This is to be done in short intervals throughout the day.
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# ? Apr 14, 2024 12:13 |
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I spent an hour reading the Bhagavad Gita. Most of that was the introduction. I'm pleased by the fact that it seems to be a relatively small text. So far people are sounding conch shells. It seems like some kind of battle is about to go down.
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# ? Apr 16, 2024 16:31 |
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Traditionally, the Bhagavad Gita is included in the Mahabharata, the world's largest epic poem and nothing else even comes close. A major part of the story concerns the legendary Kurukshetra War, and the Bhagavad Gita is framed as the advice given to Arjuna by Krishna on the eve of battle.
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# ? Apr 16, 2024 17:12 |
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We interupt this battle to bring you... a song. From God.
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# ? Apr 16, 2024 17:59 |
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Well, it's not much of an interruption, since Krishna was there to participate in the battle, as Arjuna's chariot driver.
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# ? Apr 16, 2024 18:16 |
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The journey to God is merely the reawakening of the knowledge of where you are always, and what you are forever. It is a journey without distance to a goal that has never changed. A Course in Miracles
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# ? Apr 17, 2024 09:56 |
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a course in a course in miracles, by prurient squid
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# ? Apr 17, 2024 11:54 |
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Seneca uses the metaphor of the building on firm foundations vs. the building on soft foundations. In his version the building on soft foundation is a person who is easily convinced of anything readily agreeing to a teaching whereas the one on firm foundations is the person who has to wrestle with himself and overcome doubt before believing.
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# ? Apr 18, 2024 15:19 |
Prurient Squid posted:Seneca uses the metaphor of the building on firm foundations vs. the building on soft foundations. In his version the building on soft foundation is a person who is easily convinced of anything readily agreeing to a teaching whereas the one on firm foundations is the person who has to wrestle with himself and overcome doubt before believing. I wonder this since one of my pet unpopular theories about many of the ills of modern society are not from a lack of critical thinking, they are from an imbalanced surfeit of critical thinking, which can be manipulated by various parties so that these critiques and thoughts may be encouraged into a particular form. Some of this is a sort of second-order doubt in myself, however. After some familiarization I found it comfortable to accept the Buddhist worldview and theology, so to speak, and while it isn't a 'perfect fit' I find I can easily hold to it. However, so much I read discusses people's struggles and difficulties in coming to this adherence, and it makes me wonder if the problem is with me, or if it is more that if you have a positive and relatively smooth journey into a new faith, you do not write articles about it.
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# ? Apr 18, 2024 15:34 |
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Re Seneca: here's a quote from a remarkably intense person who felt strongly about doubt being important to religious practice.Hakuin Ekaku posted:With greatest respect and reverence, I encourage all you superior seekers in the secret depths to devote yourselves to penetrating and clarifying the self as earnestly as you would put out a fire on the top of your head. I urge you to keep boring your way through as assiduously as you would seek a lost article of incalculable worth.
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# ? Apr 18, 2024 16:13 |
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Nessus posted:I wonder this since one of my pet unpopular theories about many of the ills of modern society are not from a lack of critical thinking, they are from an imbalanced surfeit of critical thinking, which can be manipulated by various parties so that these critiques and thoughts may be encouraged into a particular form. (Not to mention that there are areas of modern life where I'm not sure any expertise even exists, like using AI or running a social media site.)
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# ? Apr 18, 2024 16:21 |
Keromaru5 posted:One of E.D. Hirsch's criticisms of modern education is the way it treats "critical thinking" as a generalizable skill, when it really depends on expertise on a particular domain, and tends to come naturally with that expertise. For example, a PhD mathematician can think critically about mathematics, but perhaps not about history, unless they also had a solid knowledge base in that subject. So I think you're basically right: a lot of what you're describing is people applying critical thinking in areas where they're unequipped to do so. It's a lack of epistemic humility. It reminds me dimly of when I asked in one of my education classes, 'if a student submits a beautifully prepared, well researched, well written and well cited report on how the Holocaust didn't happen, how should this be graded?'
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# ? Apr 18, 2024 16:50 |
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Nessus posted:There is also the presumption that people would use the relatively abstract concepts of critical thinking and come to, basically, the same results as the speaker. Yes, one of my big concerns with the idea that somehow all of our conflicts will be resolved by better information is that it misses the very common situation that two well-intentioned and rational people can come to very different conclusions about the same issues based on a common set of facts.
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# ? Apr 18, 2024 16:58 |
A_Bluenoser posted:Yes, one of my big concerns with the idea that somehow all of our conflicts will be resolved by better information is that it misses the very common situation that two well-intentioned and rational people can come to very different conclusions about the same issues based on a common set of facts. e: Like what's made creationism die down is that the right-wing culture war moved on to other topics, not because people finally submitted a thick enough stack of proofs of evolutionary theory to people who were passionately convinced that evolutionary theory was the underlying cause of Communism, Fascism (the bad kind) and Liberal Democracy (the bad kind).
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# ? Apr 18, 2024 17:03 |
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I think the laws of logic can show that an argument is structurally valid but they can't actually determine if an argument is convincing. There's an irreducible element of judgement involved in the process. Like I could produce a logically valid argument in favour of a certain theory as to why the charge of an electron is what it is but whether that argument convinces is another question.
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# ? Apr 18, 2024 17:08 |
Prurient Squid posted:I think the laws of logic can show that an argument is structurally valid but they can't actually determine if an argument is convincing. There's an irreducible element of judgement involved in the process. Like I could produce a logically valid argument in favour of a certain theory as to why the charge of an electron is what it is but whether that argument convinces is another question. It's even harder for religion, as most of the proofs of religion are either based on faith or interior experiences, or a combination of both. The good news about modernity of course is it lets us have this conversation despite a much wider gulf than, say, 'two slightly different factions in the Catholic Church.'
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# ? Apr 18, 2024 17:11 |
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Nessus posted:I think that logical, classical, rigorous reason is one of the great treasures humanity has, but it is not the only mode or aspect in the human mind. You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. Absolutely agreed! I am also reminded of something our Chaplin said recently in a sermon: critical thinking can be very good at tearing things down but not always so good at building them up. We can use critical thinking to tear apart everything that we hold precious and beautiful but if we don't build up something better to replace it we are left empty, cold, and susceptible to all sorts of bad things seeping in to fill the void: when the evil spirit goes out of a man he walks through dry places and finding nothing he returns to find his house swept and garnished. Then straightway he goes out and finds seven other spirits more evil than the first and they come in to dwell with him and the last state of the man is worse than the first. This tearing down is particularly damaging when we do it to people: we are very good at seeing through other people but not very good at actually seeing other people.
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# ? Apr 18, 2024 17:21 |
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A_Bluenoser posted:This tearing down is particularly damaging when we do it to people: we are very good at seeing through other people but not very good at actually seeing other people. Both rationality (critical thinking) and the religious prophetic can tear things down like this. There’s a section about it in the Socialist Decision.
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# ? Apr 18, 2024 17:29 |
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Critical thinking is distinct from doubt IMO. Like for example one can doubt that one's intentions are pure, and feel it out to see what's there. Or sensing if your impressions or deconstruction of someone does not line up with their whole personhood, kind of like what A_Bluenoser was saying.
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# ? Apr 18, 2024 17:33 |
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A_Bluenoser posted:Yes, one of my big concerns with the idea that somehow all of our conflicts will be resolved by better information is that it misses the very common situation that two well-intentioned and rational people can come to very different conclusions about the same issues based on a common set of facts. posting Tillich in multiple threads today like a freak Paul Tillich posted:Another element, or the third element in the religious experience, is the element of "ought to be." This is the ethical or prophetic element. I think it's not "better information" necessarily but "different information" or "information collected from a different perspective." Earlier in the lecture ("The Significance Of The History Of Religions For The Systematic Theologian") Tillich identifies mysticism, a communication with the Ultimate Holy, as a critical element in his conception of a theoretical ideal religion. Paul Tillich posted:The first of these critical movements is mystical. This mystical movement means that one is not satisfied with any of the concrete expressions of the Ultimate, of the Holy. One goes beyond them. Man goes to the one beyond any manifoldness. The Holy as the Ultimate lies beyond any of its embodiments. The embodiments are justified. They are accepted but they are secondary. One must go beyond them in order to reach the highest, the Ultimate itself. The particular is denied for the Ultimate One. The solution to the problem you point out, as proposed, is for a person to develop knowledge of the Holy and allow themself to listen to and be guided by the ethical truths of it (practice theonomy). Critical thinking and practicality are just two elements of an ethical decision making process, held in consideration along with knowing "what is right," that is, the theonomous choice, the most God-like choice, as the third.
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# ? Apr 18, 2024 17:34 |
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nice obelisk idiot posted:Re Seneca: here's a quote from a remarkably intense person who felt strongly about doubt being important to religious practice. also loved this NOI, thank you lol
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# ? Apr 18, 2024 17:35 |
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# ? May 21, 2024 15:01 |
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Nessus posted:There is also the presumption that people would use the relatively abstract concepts of critical thinking and come to, basically, the same results as the speaker. Prurient Squid posted:I think the laws of logic can show that an argument is structurally valid but they can't actually determine if an argument is convincing. There's an irreducible element of judgement involved in the process. Like I could produce a logically valid argument in favour of a certain theory as to why the charge of an electron is what it is but whether that argument convinces is another question.
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# ? Apr 18, 2024 17:35 |