Religion Thread: I never metaphysics I didn't like

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Religion Thread: I never metaphysics I didn't like

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

Re-Introductions, fun!

I'm a convert to Eastern Orthodoxy via non-denominational Protestant something or other.
Be prepared for me to make a bad joke about dates in April/May because Easter and Pascha are almost a whole month apart this year.

# ¿ Jan 13, 2021 15:58

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 01:29

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

Night10194 posted:

I suppose I'm a Protestant in that I'd be Catholic if not for some doctrinal differences I feel I cannot take confirmation in good conscience with.

Depending on what the doctrinal differences are, Eastern Orthodoxy is something you may want to check out. (What I'm really saying is JOIIINNNNN UUSSSS)

# ¿ Jan 13, 2021 22:01

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

Captain von Trapp posted:

In general if you asked the church fathers how old the earth was, they'd have probably shrugged and given you a young figure based on the geneaologies in the bible. From their writings, they would not have been particularly dogmatic about it. Often the issue was more "did creation take six literal days, or was it instantaneous?" With no science to speak of and the salvation of souls not depending on the answer, it wasn't something they worried about much.

This reminds me of an article I read about how the Church isn't trying to answer questions like "How old is the universe" since that's a science question and the Church isn't really a body of scientists.
http://blc.arizona.edu/courses/schaffer/449/Gould%20Nonoverlapping%20Magisteria.htm

# ¿ Jan 15, 2021 16:59

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

Shaddak posted:

Nothing all that mysterious. They're stocked with various CS books, and copies of The Monitor. Yes, you can purchase books there but, you can also just show up to a reading room and, read anything for free.

I'd love to hear more about Christian Science if you were inclined to share; I too have seen the reading rooms all over but haven't learned a single thing about it.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2021 05:48

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

Civilized Fishbot posted:

We just did "Ash Thursday" at the Catholic school where I teach. We weren't in-person on Wednesday because of the snow (but we've been in-person the rest of the year because we need tuition money). So we got permission from our resident priest to move the ceremony to Thursday. The principal went around to each of our classrooms and wrote the cross on each student's forehead with a q-tip (a new q-tip for each student, safety first!).

What was weird is that the principal went up to draw the ashes on my forehead, even though she knows perfectly well that I'm Jewish (she got me matzo, everything bagel seasoning, and Israeli biscuits for Secret Santa, we've attended Mass together and I never receive communion, we have discussed the fact that I eat kosher...). I only had to shake my head to decline which was objectively chill but still a bit more of a scene than I'd prefer to make in front of my students. But I don't know what she was thinking - I think it's pretty obvious that Ash Wednesday is not something Jews do?

I wonder in the principal was just on auto-pilot after doing a repetitive action so many times.

# ¿ Feb 18, 2021 16:41

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

Thirteen Orphans posted:

Is this considered the Bay Area?

Yeah, I think the Castro counts as the bay haha

# ¿ Feb 20, 2021 01:36

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

Thirteen Orphans posted:

Sorry I just knew it was San Francisco, I didn�t know what exactly counted as Bay Area.

Sorry if this came off rear end in a top hat-ish, I didn't mean to diminish you at all. I just thought it was funny because you could loosely describe the bay area as "San Fransisco and the rest of the cities surrounding San Francisco Bay", so something that is smack dab in the middle of SF is 10000% in the "bay area".

# ¿ Feb 20, 2021 03:03

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

CarpenterWalrus posted:

A bunch of interesting stuff

Welcome to thread and thanks for sharing, this is all super interesting

# ¿ Feb 24, 2021 03:22

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

Zazz Razzamatazz posted:

The Catholic view:
You are in a sailboat. The Holy Spirit is the wind, and by carefully trimming the sails and keeping hold of the rudder you can make it back to shore. You are saved by God through cooperation with Him.

My understanding of the Orthodox view is similar to this: we are constantly working out our salvation in cooperation with the holy spirit.

# ¿ Mar 4, 2021 23:11

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

Keromaru5 posted:

Theologically, there's no difference. The style of worship varies a bit between Greek and Slavic, but it's still the same basic liturgy. The main difference is just which bishops that parish is connected with. The Greek Archdiocese is under the Ecumenical Patriarchate. Antioch is under Antioch. ROCOR is under Moscow. OCA is autocephalous (self-governing), though originally under Moscow. At present, Moscow is out of communion with Constantinople, and I think that carries over to ROCOR, but I'm pretty sure it's just them. It shouldn't matter too much which jurisdiction you go with. In the end, I figure the community at that parish, including the priest, should be the deciding factor.

Beyond that, ROCOR tends to be the most rigorous. IIRC, you have to go to confession *every* time you expect to take Communion. In the OCA it's required only once a month, and in the Greek Church it's between you and your priest. Greek churches are probably going to be the most likely to use the original language, though every one I've been to has been convert-heavy and uses plenty of English.

In an ideal world, there would just be one American Orthodox Church, because under the canons bishops aren't supposed to have overlapping territories, but this is what we have.

Also this. Trust me, the hymns sound much better without instruments.

This is correct though my experience with confession in the OCA is "it's between you and your priest" with my first priest giving rough advice to confess once every festal period.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2021 02:07

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

Civilized Fishbot posted:

no Jew can eat wheat, during Passover.

If we're using holidays as a metric then fasting periods such as Ramadan would mean the answer is "no"

# ¿ Mar 8, 2021 17:52

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

BattyKiara posted:

You can still eat after sunset during Ramadan.

That's kinda my point though, since Passover ends at some point too. If we're saying fasting/abstention periods count then there is no food that is outside a religion's rules.

I assumed you just meant foods like pork that religions ban the consumption of entirely.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2021 01:20

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

StrixNebulosa posted:

I bring a question from the stupid/small questions thread that I'm still pondering over: If you�re in a religion that forbids meat, do they allow practitioners to have the fake meats? Like, Incogmeato brands.

Quoting my answer from the other thread

Slimy Hog posted:

I wasn't at my computer for my last few posts so I was too lazy to type this up, but I've had discussions about fake meat with a couple priests and, like everything else in Orthodoxy, it kinda depends....

I can only speak to my experience with Eastern Orthodoxy specifically, so please defer to a priest about all this if you disagree/were told something else/want to know about a different religion

(This topic is particularly relevant to me right now because we're in the second week of Great Lent)

Both priests pretty much said the same thing: fasting isn't really about abstaining from particular food because there's anything inherently wrong/evil/sinful about them, it's about self-denial and getting closer to God; so if eating the meat substitutes keeps us from experiencing the fast in the way it was intended, then we should probably abstain from those as well. On the other hand, if eating the meat substitutes allows us to stay healthy while fasting, then it's a good thing to do. I've even been told that if fasting is easy for you (or if you already abstain from these foods by being Vegan or whatever), then try not spicing your food as much and/or eat fewer meals.

This also goes the other way: if you're pregnant, sick or have health issues, the fast as-is may not be feasible for you, so your priest may have other things you can do to participate in the fast without harming your health.

For the Orthodox, the foods themselves aren't inherently unclean or bad or whatever, it's all about our relationship with God and getting closer to him (fasting from foods is only 1/3 of the protocols for the "fast", we're also supposed to pray and give alms more during these periods).

Me personally? Well I don't just replace all the meat I would normally eat with Seitan/Beyond Burgers/etc, because that just feels like I'm trying to get around and cheat the fast in a way (like BonHair said), but I do eat those things on occasion.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2021 14:51

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

zhar posted:

I am a buddhist and recently the Christian practice of hesychasm has interested me but I realise I'm ignorant of much of the basics of Catholic/Eastern Christianity. Does anyone know of a good resource for learning about Catholic or Orthodox beliefs to the point it would contextualise that practice? I'm not looking for something about hesychasm to be clear but a broader overview of the faith.

It's been a while since I've read them, but I recall The Orthodox Faith by Hopko being a good primer and I remember reading The Orthodox Church by Timothy Ware when I first was interested in the faith.

Or you could go wild and read the The Ladder of Divine Ascent then come back and tell me if that was a bad idea or not.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2021 15:25

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

ProperGanderPusher posted:

Hey.

Hey, Orthogoons.

Christ is Risen.

Indeed he is risen!

# ¿ May 2, 2021 13:53

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

HopperUK posted:

Happy Easter, splitters!

Is there a SA bug that made you post 1 month late or something?

# ¿ May 2, 2021 17:47

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

CarpenterWalrus posted:

Most Christian sects control how and under what circumstances people have sex. Sex before marriage is a sin (PS only the right kind of marriage counts). Sex for fun is a sin. Sex between same-sex people is a sin. Masturbation is a sin. In some sects, sexual excitement and fantasy are lumped in with "adultery" and "covetous thought." Sexual "purity" is a powerful concept to the American Christian and great pains are taken to adhere to that idea. It seems difficult to believe that you'd be unaware of things like purity vows, purity rings, purity balls, girls signing over their virginal purity to their fathers, the Christian side-hug, etc., if you're deeply religious. These things aren't secret at all.

Based on some of your spelling, you probably aren't American. The CoE very famously forbade divorce to the point that death and murder was the preferable alternative. Is this not an attempt to control how people have sex? The Catholic Church forbids birth control, either as a means of maintaining their population or by ensuring pregnancy as a punishment for sex, or encouraging Catholic marriages by saying having children out of wedlock is sinful. Again, these policies aren't secret. It's worth examining why you, personally, feel attacked by recognizing these things.

I don't even know where to start with this other than to say you have a flawed and very narrow understanding of the way Christianity views sex

# ¿ May 10, 2021 19:49

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

CarpenterWalrus posted:

Please elaborate! As far as I know, I haven't said anything that's factually incorrect. You might argue about WHY Christianity regulates sex among its adherents, but to say that Christianity doesn't have those regulations, rules, and laws is demonstrably false. The whole point of this thread is elucidation and I welcome correction.

I'm not going to address all the points in your post because I don't have time, but here are a few:

1) Your response to someone asking you to explain

quote:

Ultimately, religions try to control how people engage sexually because that's an excellent way to control their behavior generally. You control how and when people gently caress and you can get them to do basically whatever you want.

Is to say a bunch of stuff about Christianity.

2) Saying "Sex for fun is a sin" is just silly

3) Equating Conservative American Evangelical Christianity to all of Christianity is nonsense.

4) Ending your post with "It's worth examining why you, personally, feel attacked by recognizing these things" doesn't sound like you "welcome correction"

# ¿ May 10, 2021 20:25

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

Not sure litigating the Israel/Palestine conflict is something that we should be doing in the Religion Thread.

# ¿ May 19, 2021 19:06

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

Spacewolf posted:

wait hold on, I did not realize Catholicism was millennialist.

Wikipedia says that the Catholic Church "strongly condemns millennialism"

quote:

The Antichrist's deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the "intrinsically perverse" political form of a secular messianism.

— Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1995

# ¿ May 20, 2021 00:41

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

Antivehicular posted:

Yeah, pork historically has a bad reputation for harboring food-borne parasites, particularly trichinosis; this is also why older recipes for pork will call for cooking it to within an inch of its life. I've heard that as the practical explanation of pork prohibition, but I have no idea if that's accurate to the real history.

Fun fact about pork: freezing kills trichnosis so you can eat your pork sashimi as long as you freeze it for like a week before eating (don't do this)

# ¿ May 22, 2021 03:11

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

I did not expect this conversation

# ¿ Jul 19, 2021 23:00

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

I broke my foot yesterday and can't get a cast until next week. If the bone moves too much between now and then I'll need surgery.

I have a 3 year old and a very active hobby that requires my feet to be in tip-top shape, so needless to say I'd like a quick and full recovery. Please pray for me.

Also pray for Brittany because that situation is all kinds of hosed up and has been forever.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2021 16:37

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

Thirteen Orphans posted:

If there was one way to start an argument among the campus ministry crowd it was to bring up music used in the liturgy.

Being Orthodox my first thought when I saw this was "I don't think you can do that".

# ¿ Sep 2, 2021 17:13

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

Fair_Winds posted:

What questions do I need to ask myself to figure this out?

Something that helped me when I was doing something similar was to reorient from "what church matches my beliefs?" to "which church expresses the full and true faith?". There's a big difference in the experience of exploring those two questions.

This journey for me looked like confused non-denom protestant -> curious about other non-protestant expressions of Christianity -> thinking the Catholics may actually have been right -> Owait, maybe it's the Orthodox who were right -> LOL who knows -> Orthodox

# ¿ Sep 4, 2021 17:20

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

Am I correct in saying that D34THROW is the first American evangelical Christian (D34THROW forgive me if you don't call yourself this) to post in this thread?

It's kinda wild that we've gone this long without having one.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2021 00:00

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

Captain von Trapp posted:

Well there's me, and I can't imagine I'm the first.

Fritz the Horse posted:

Cythereal

We've had others hanging out in the past.

More the merrier! As long as they aren't fans of prosperity gospel

Whelp looks like I'm wrong.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2021 01:39

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

D34THROW posted:

Not evangelical in the "stand on a street corner and cry fire and brimstone" sense, but given my understanding of Jesus's intent, particularly as written by Paul, it is my duty as a Christian to spread the word, as it were. If someone needs help and I feel called/drawn to them, I'll absolutely do so and try to give them a gentle nudge in (what I feel is) the right direction.

Oh I meant it in the capital-E "Evangelical" way

D34THROW posted:

quote:
1 Cor 15:26
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrvE_LWY4Tk

# ¿ Sep 7, 2021 16:09

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

Goblin Craft posted:

Oh man, DA and the 77s are still my favorite bands of all time. Nice to see a fellow fan in the wild; no one I know even has any idea who they are.

I forgot to mention what was my favorite Christian band when I was younger: Officer Negative
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSxokxq3knE

Also I know some people who were big into the cornerstone music festival in California and my son's Godfather used to be in Headnoise

# ¿ Sep 7, 2021 18:55

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

Captain von Trapp posted:

Modesty is definitely a swear word in our culture.

It gets flack for being a patriarchal method of men controlling women, or of putting the responsibility for men's poor behavior on women. Worse, sometimes people do use it that way. But the point of modesty is for your outward appearance to reflect your spirit, who you really are, hopefully that's a loving, joyful, peaceful, patient (and so on) person. That should be part of the way you present yourself regardless of whether there's any of the opposite sex around, and it applies with equal importance to men as well.

What if I'm a loving, joyful, peaceful, patient (and so on) person who also wants to wear a short skirt? Can those two things not co-exist?

# ¿ Sep 14, 2021 03:27

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

Antivehicular posted:

I want to highlight this because I think it's important to take into account -- a lot of prior wear short/scanty clothes because they find them comfortable, not to communicate anything to anyone, or are just throwing on casual dress to run errands or something and aren't thinking at all. Assuming that all women in immodest dress (whatever that may mean to you) are deliberately trying to attract sexual attention or communicate something about their character isn't really accurate or kind.

This 1000000%

Women wear clothes because they want to. It's almost like they're full human beings just like you are.

It's also quite telling that this conversation is about women dressing modestly with a few token "oh, dudes too" thrown in.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2021 05:01

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

ThePopeOfFun posted:

Calvin burned people at the stake??????

I thought he just had adventures with a stuffed tiger.

# ¿ Sep 24, 2021 00:40

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

Cyrano4747 posted:

Can someone explain the crown thing to me?
I gather it�s not just pseudo royalty Romanov BS but something with actual religios meaning.

I had to google to refresh my memory, but crowns represent martyrdom and in marriage you're a martyr to your partner (you're dying to yourself in order to serve your partner). Google also says something about sharing in the kingdom, but that's not the explanation that I've heard.

Here's my normal caveat that I wasn't raised Orthodox am bad at BEING orthodox and converted after my marriage.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2021 01:14

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

Fritz the Horse posted:

my completely unfounded assumption is that monastery food is either extremely bland and boring or effin' awesome and there's no real in-between

I stayed a couple days a monetary once during lent and had some spaghetti with red sauce. Probably the best boring food I've ever had.

# ¿ Oct 4, 2021 14:33

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

Worthleast posted:

trot

Lol, nice

# ¿ Oct 7, 2021 14:30

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

TOOT BOOT posted:

I don't know whether any of the rest of you read GBS but Lowtax committed suicide. As much of an rear end in a top hat as he was I always kinda hoped selling off the forums would make him reform his messed-up life.

Yeah definitely seemed like a piece of poo poo, but any loss of life is tragic IMO, especially when they die of suicide.

# ¿ Nov 11, 2021 23:15

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

zonohedron posted:

aren't on Discord (and why not, I ask you)

Forums and discord work in fundamentally different ways and forums are a better fit for the way I want to post (badly)

# ¿ Nov 11, 2021 23:58

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

Tias posted:

Yeah, I'm not good at discord either, but I drive-by post in there a lot because it's cosy and has a lot of food, craft and faith chat. It's definitely not a part of SA, nor a requirement to post here.

As someone with a similar history, and who have myself participated in the abuse of others because I never learned anything else, I will offer this: Lowtax came up wrong, and his parents diseases of alcoholism and self-denial was taught to him before he could know that there was any other way. The disease made him act out, not some inherent 'piece of shitness'.

I ain't even a christian, but seriously, keep his original state in mind before you condemn him.

My comment came out different than what I meant and you're 100% right, please forgive me. (FWIW I was trying to say something like "we shouldn't revel in the death of Lowtax regardless what he may have done in the past")

# ¿ Nov 12, 2021 18:29

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

D34THROW posted:

KJV for my main reading

Any particular reason for this?

# ¿ Nov 14, 2021 16:12

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 01:29

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

If you're into early Christian history + board games and have a sense of humor about religion, Hollandspiele has a new game and a sale going on right now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7aukWp5lmc
https://hollandspiele.com/products/nicaea

I wish I had a steady group of 4+ to justify this.

# ¿ Nov 15, 2021 17:49

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