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Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


Hello new thread! I mostly lurk as my brain isn't wired for faith in god, but I'm Jewish and pretty attached to a lot of the cultural/ritual/philosophy stuff so sometimes I will have opinions. I'm also just interested in faith/religiousness in general as a thing that I fundamentally don't experience but which clearly lots of other people do!

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Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


WrenP-Complete posted:

The leavening process, according to rabbinical law, happens when a cereal grain (wheat, spelt, barley, rye, and oats) mixes with water and time, because of "air leavening" like how bread was leavened back in Torah times. If you make matzah before the time is up, you've created something made from those grains that isn't going to leaven.**
That's how matzah is permitted.

**Some Jews - like how Civilized Fishbot grew up also don't eat matzah+water ("gebrochts) because of a concern of some errant flour getting into the matzah making process.**

We are filming our teaching seder tomorrow, two weeks early. There's so much to do! Film crew coming over tomorrow afternoon! Praying for strength and stamina out here !

I know the justification but it does always feel a bit strange to make kneidlach mix and then leave it for 90 minutes to rise before balling it up and boiling it so it swells up even bigger. Celebrating that time our ancestors had to get up and leave really quickly by making a dish that requires at least two hours of time!

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


This is just my bugbear but the whole "oh the old testament god is a bad guy but the new one is ok I know because I read the texts" is kind of lovely given the thousands of years of Jewish thought and discussion about the old testament. Like you're just brushing aside an entire ethnoreligion there without a thought.

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


Might be too simplistic but is it possible to go from moses striking the rock instead of speaking to it to ideas about accepting your family despite differences instead of distancing yourself from them?

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


WrenP-Complete posted:

Thank you! A lot of the day is a blur but that moment is etched inside my heart.

Mazel tov!

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


If you dress up especially just to show how modest you are even if it's uncomfortable and not how you would personally choose to dress if you weren't trying to show how modest you are, aren't you essentially just bragging about your modesty to everyone? Is that really being modest? Wearing a floor-length dress when everyone else is wearing shorts in the heat is surely just another way of showing off.

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


Can we give the vat pork split hooves and multiple stomachs?

It's a weird thing for me since I don't believe in god or anything but just culturally don't eat pig out of my last bastion of stubbornly not assimilating, and I haven't been able to bring myself to eat fake pig either. So I probably wouldn't eat vat pork on balance.

Halachically I suspect at least some rabbis would rule it out just in case, there is plenty of precedent for "don't do this thing because it resembles something we are explicitly forbidden" and this is basically exactly that.

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


Earwicker posted:

according to the orthodox union it's technically kosher but not officially marked as kosher

https://www.kashrut.com/articles/ImpossiblePork/

also, i don't think it's "chemically identical" to pork

also also, i have definitely seen turkey bacon that is certified kosher, so i don't think conceptually there is a problem with the idea of imitating a forbidden animal. kind of thought kosher hotdogs would fall into the same category too

Oh yes, I think it's two different questions. Non-meat that closely resembles pig would presumably be fine since it's still not even meat, exactly like they say. It would need to be certified kosher just like any other non-meat product.

I'm talking more about the concept of actual meat but grown in a way that doesn't involve a living walking breathing animal.

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


Crazy Joe Wilson posted:

I mean, most polls show 97% of American plan on or do celebrate Christmas in either secular or religious form, while <70% of Americans are Christian. My buddy and his family who are pretty average atheists send more Christmas cards out than me. Mostly just an excuse for them to send pictures of their family and how they're doing.

I dunno.

There's a huge difference between being an atheist who was raised culturally Christian, and growing up in a culture that does not celebrate Christmas but being surrounded by people who simply cannot conceive of not celebrating Christmas. Returning the card is a pretty big move but I understand the sentiment behind it, I'd feel a similar one if it happened to me, although it wouldn't occur to me to return the card and if I did it would probably be with a note explaining the issue.

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


You also should consider that pest animals/insects are killed for the sake of farming plants, and humans are harmed in the growing/harvesting/packing. It's not possible to engage with modern food supply chains without being party to harming something and it's quite possible that in many cases eating meat harms less living beings than substituting it for a plant-based protein.

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


Nessus posted:

At a certain point it seems to veer into bibliolatry: is the Bible more important than, like, God? If God was silent, would the Bible be enough? And if God were to speak again - would you trust that voice, or the Book?

Oh this is interesting because as far as I understand in Judaism the answer is absolutely, explicitly, the book. There's literally a story about exactly that thing. I wouldn't characterise it as idolatry though, more like God gave us a book which is a single source of truth for how to be and that's that.

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


WrenP-Complete posted:

Are we still sharing recipes?

My Bubby just compiled a synagogue cookbook of 175 recipes contributed by 66 different families!

Anyone want a recipe for... Chopped herring? Vegan chopped liver? My husband's kosher beef *bourgogne recipe? My rosemary chocolate chip shortbread?

Got any kneidlach ones? I'm always interested to compare to the one we use!

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


Gaius Marius posted:

Go for it, I'm not sure if Ryukishi is Christian, but the work itself very much feels like it is. Not just in naming the characters, but especially in it's treatment of Empathy and Forgiveness.

Hm I mostly lurk here but I love me some Umineko, genuinely changed the way I look at the world for the better. As a not-even-culturally-Christian person I'm probably biased the other way but I don't think there's anything specifically Christian about the way it handles the topics of empathy and love for fellow humans, it just shares some similarities maybe with how Christians should be. To me it's deeply, deeply humanist and I'd be interested to see the Christian interpretation.

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


Gaius Marius posted:



Actual thoughts

The best way I can say it is to paraphrase Virgilla's thoughts on Murder Mysteries. One needs to have faith in the author that everything has been put there for a reason, and nothing will happen outside of that no matter how much it seems like that is the case. Likewise the author who works so hard crafting this work has no guarantee that the player will be a trusting participant in this project, even if everything is designed to be perfect. The role of Knox's commandments can be seen analogous to religious law, you may think it's arbitrary and restrictive but in truth it has a higher purpose that you may or may not be able to discover.

I might just be projecting as a christian, but even when I can't exactly verbalize how, it was giving me very similar vibes to what the Bible teaches us.



Ah yeah that makes sense. To me the most important part of it is that it's carefully crafted by a flawed human who is desperately trying to communicate something, and it's not about having faith but looking for reason and understanding because people don't do things without reason so what could the reason be? It's about choosing to view others with love and kindness as a conscious choice, in full knowledge that there are other ways to look at them. I suppose rather than having faith that the kind way is the true way.

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


Tias posted:

Do you even comprehend the question? The Moon is the Moon, you can't just claim it belongs you to you because it's possible to take a (space) ferry there. You sound like you have some sort of deeply twisted entitlement behind your reasoning.

I'm not a catholic, should I just accept that my entire country is legally subject to whatever catholic entity that can send a warfleet there?

I don't think the catholics are claiming to own the moon, they've just decided that if there happen to be catholics on the moon at any point they know who those catholics can refer to as their catholic authority.

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


two fish posted:

That's a fair point, I hadn't considered the lack of a control group. It's an interesting thought that at one point, an enormous global religion that ended up with billions of followers over the centuries started out as a sect of an already established religion, which itself had been around for many centuries.

Speaking of Judaism, were there any interesting old branches or sects of it that did not survive to the modern era? When I look at Judaism today, the three major groupings I come across are the Conservatives, the Orthodox, and the Reform. Did others exist in the past?

This is an extremely American take on groupings. I'd say the major Jewish groups are Ashkenazi, Sephardi and Mizrahi and those are based on geographical diaspora locations. There are others too based in other geographical areas but I think those are the three biggest? They have significant differences in language and tradition because of their historical isolation from each other.

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


Gaius Marius posted:

Moses uprooted his whole people on promises of land he'd never even stepped foot on.

I mean they were slaves fleeing to freedom, that's still a pretty good deal.

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


Prurient Squid posted:

There's another line which says that if two men are fighting and the wife of one punches the other man in the dick you have to chop her hand off. Deuteronomy is rough.

It feels super weird to me to see you to read through the bare words of this particular translation of the torah that you're reading and try to have thoughts about it without reading it alongside any of the massive amount of commentary, but maybe that's just the being raised jewish speaking.

There's just so much missing though! I've never even seen a copy that didn't come with commentary notes to be read alongside it. I really think you'd get more out of it with that.

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Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


Nessus posted:

I think most Christians outside of divinity school just take the text itself without consulting any commentary or interpretation, although I believe OP is not in the 'I'll go with either the literal reading or a version of the literal reading that supports what I think already' camp that ah, many Americans are in.

I know and it's always so weird to me! Like when I was in primary school we would learn about one sentence per week, because there was so much to talk about with every single sentence. It's not intended to be taken by itself, especially outside its original language. I guess I just don't know what people hope to get out of it (other than extremely literal literalists who just want to be literal I guess).

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