Deteriorata posted:

Quite the opposite for me. Exploration of Christian history has only deepened my faith. My beliefs have changed some as a result, being better informed and less naive, but never really challenged in the sense of abandoning them.

Nth Doctor posted:

My friends, casseroles and hot dishes are nice but can't we all agree that the pies made by the littlest and oldest ladies are the best thing on the 1970’s era card table over by the coffee urn?

PantlessBadger posted:

Full disclosure, I own a silly hat.

PantlessBadger posted:

Bit blurry, but that's what you get when trying to take pictures of silly hats, I guess.

White Coke posted:

Good news, Jelly Bean pulled through.

docbeard posted:

It turns out that apocalyptic sex cults are not actually that great a time.

Lutha Mahtin posted:

for those of you who aren't familiar, dietrich bonhoeffer was a german pastor and theologian who also, you know, actively worked to stop the nazis

CommonShore posted:

Someone can be simultaneously "cancelled" and "forgiven."

ThePopeOfFun posted:

So to bring it full circle, my interaction with those tweets is something more like, yes forgiveness is a core Christian practice, but I see grief, confession and repentance as MORE necessary Christian practices.

CarpenterWalrus posted:

Honestly, I think it's the aesthetic and the "freaking out the squares" that appeals to a lot of us.

CarpenterWalrus posted:

I genuinely love religion as a whole, and I have personal grievances with institutions and how religion's used moreso than with individual believers, so when someone reacts adversely to my own expression of belief, I shrug it off.

CarpenterWalrus posted:

I consider the pomp and circumstance of Catholic ritual to be its greatest strength. I, personally, have known a few agnostics who've full-on converted to Catholicism because of the appeal of the rituals. I think if Catholic leadership leaned into its aesthetic, it could attract a lot of Millennials/ Gen Z who're looking to slot into that spiritual infrastructure.

Liquid Communism posted:

I don't think that's likely until the Church stops having another round of 'we found more documentation of the abuse clergy was doing that you've been hiding' every six months. That's pretty much the biggest thing young people these days not raised Catholic know about the Church.

Edit: Also, you know, being doctrinally homophobic, transphobic, and opposed to the bodily autonomy of women.

BattyKiara posted:

Judas' betrayal was necessary. He repented. I have no problem with him going straight to Heaven. I'm more interested in the Bad Robber crucified next to Jesus. When Jesus clearly say to the Good Robber that they will go to Heaven together, what happened to the Bad Robber?

My headcanon is Jesus and GR on their way to Heaven. Jesus turns around and shouts "Hey, BR? Don't you want to come with?" BR finally feels forgiven and loved, able to forgive himself, and all three of them enter Heaven together.

Nth Doctor posted:

So Question #2 is whether Christ was born a man and granted Godhood or was right from the get-go, right?

Please answer in essay form and show your work.

Thirteen Orphans posted:

The Something Awful Ecumenical Spaghetti Dinner will now be a Something Awful Ecumenical Fast.

White Coke posted:

What's the difference between meditation and contemplation, in the Christian mystic tradition?

Fr. Gabriel of St. Mary Magdalen OCD posted:

The meditation or personal reflection that we make on the divine gift or on the mystery that we have selected in our reading, serves a double purpose: the one intellectual, the other affective. The intellectual purpose is to understand better God's love for us, as it is manifested in the mystery or in the divine gift that we are considering, and thus to be ever more convinced of the loving invitation addressed by God to our soul. The affective purpose consists in moving the will to the exercise of love and to its manifestation by responding to the divine invitation. Meditation becomes therefore the immediate preparation for loving conversation with our Lord.

This transition should not be made at a precise, almost mathematically determined moment, but in a wholly spontaneous way. By making our reflections in the presence of God, and thus seeing more clearly how much God loves us, we easily feel moved to speak lovingly to Him. On the other hand, the reflections that we were making before to ourselves, we continue for some time conversing with our Lord, and this serves to give us a keener realization of His love. Finally we leave behind all considerations in order to abandon ourselves fully to the exercise of love and its manifestation, and thus we pass to the loving colloquy. In this conversation we tell God and repeat in a thousand ways that we love Him, that we desire to love Him more and to prove our love to Him.

Because when we are speaking with God and listening to Him, we do not continue to reason as in meditation, but we give our attention in a general manner to the mystery we have pondered in the meditation itself, or else we simply gaze at Jesus or our heavenly Father with Whom we are speaking. In this simple regard is verified the traditional idea of "contemplation:" the simple gaze that penetrates truth. And since in this colloquy God is accustomed to communicate His light, so under this aspect there is verified in some way what in a fuller sense pertains to true contemplation, namely an infusion of heavenly light.

White Coke posted:

Can you recommend any books to get started, or is it the sort of thing where you need someone to personally instruct you?

Zazz Razzamatazz posted:

My confirmation / first Communion was tonight, I'm now officially a Catholic!

Nth Doctor posted:

My Grandfather left this life behind this morning. Ever the gentleman, he waited until my mother had left the room to go get coffee.

His last words were his musical cadence of "and I love you" in response to my mom. His pain is over and while I'll miss him, I'm glad he is at rest.

Nessus posted:

Is the Pope the actual formal head of state of Vatican City?

WrenP-Complete posted:

What are your favorite places in Rome??? Making. Travel plan...

zonohedron posted:

So, uh, just in case I ever win the lottery and get to go to Rome, how do you arrange to go to confession if you are, like me, entirely monolingual? I'm aware that the matter of the sacrament is my sins, not actually the priest's auditory processing thereof or even my vocalization thereof, but...

Thirteen Orphans posted:

The Old Guard of the thread might remember my long and ultimately unsuccessful attempt to enter religious life. It’s been almost 6 years since my last attempt which was with a Trappist monastery. Out of nowhere today I got a call from the Vocations Director of that monastery. He was wondering where I was in my “discernment journey” and told me he would remember me in his prayers. It was nice to hear from him, he’s a kind older monk. But the call kinda made me wonder, well, why? Not why did he call but why did this happen? Is this some kind of, for want of a better term, sign that maybe I should start thinking about trying again? My health is getting better and I’m still young enough that most places would consider me. It’s like I told my sister, I won’t get excommunicated no matter how many people say no. I’m not going to try anything anytime soon, but I might start changing how I live in a way that anticipates it. Increased prayer, etc. That would be a good thing no matter what happens.

WrenP-Complete posted:

Pershing posted:

Any idea what your bishop's opinion is likely to be, Worthleast?

Captain von Trapp posted:

I'm not sure he could have provoked more of a battle line with the traditionalists if he tried.

“...to determine that these groups do not deny the validity and the legitimacy of the liturgical reform, dictated by Vatican Council II and the Magisterium of the Supreme Pontiffs.”

He's pretty notorious for weaponized ambiguity in matters of faith and morals, but question Vatican II and you get the Inquisition. I may be a protestant heretic, but I pray there's divine intervention for my Roman friends. They're going to need it.

Thirteen Orphans posted:

That’s what I thought. Though I don’t want it to come off that I’m implying that because we can still do the OF in Latin that should be enough.

Traditionis Custodes posted:

Art. 3. The bishop of the diocese in which until now there exist one or more groups that celebrate according to the Missal antecedent to the reform of 1970:

§ 1. is to determine that these groups do not deny the validity and the legitimacy of the liturgical reform, dictated by Vatican Council II and the Magisterium of the Supreme Pontiffs;

§ 2. is to designate one or more locations where the faithful adherents of these groups may gather for the eucharistic celebration (not however in the parochial churches and without the erection of new personal parishes);

...

§ 5. to proceed suitably to verify that the parishes canonically erected for the benefit of these faithful are effective for their spiritual growth, and to determine whether or not to retain them;

§ 6. to take care not to authorize the establishment of new groups.

Art. 4. Priests ordained after the publication of the present Motu Proprio, who wish to celebrate using the Missale Romanum of 1962, should submit a formal request to the diocesan Bishop who shall consult the Apostolic See before granting this authorization.

Art. 5. Priests who already celebrate according to the Missale Romanum of 1962 should request from the diocesan Bishop the authorization to continue to enjoy this faculty.

Blurred posted:

I know that properly understanding the importance of things like this sometimes requires you to be an insider, but could someone at least try to explain to an outsider why performing the mass in Latin is so very important to some people, and why stopping them from performing the mass in Latin is so very important to others?

Agatha Christie and 56 others posted:

If some senseless decree were to order the total or partial destruction of basilicas or cathedrals, then obviously it would be the educated - whatever their personal beliefs - who would rise up in horror to oppose such a possibility. Now the fact is that basilicas and cathedrals were built so as to celebrate a rite which, until a few months ago, constituted a living tradition. We are referring to the Roman Catholic Mass. Yet, according to the latest information in Rome, there is a plan to obliterate that Mass by the end of the current year. One of the axioms of contemporary publicity, religious as well as secular, is that modern man in general, and intellectuals in particular, have become intolerant of all forms of tradition and are anxious to suppress them and put something else in their place. But, like many other affirmations of our publicity machines, this axiom is false. Today, as in times gone by, educated people are in the vanguard where recognition of the value of tradition in concerned, and are the first to raise the alarm when it is threatened. We are not at this moment considering the religious or spiritual experience of millions of individuals. The rite in question, in its magnificent Latin text, has also inspired a host of priceless achievements in the arts - not only mystical works, but works by poets, philosophers, musicians, architects, painters and sculptors in all countries and epochs. Thus, it belongs to universal culture as well as to churchmen and formal Christians. In the materialistic and technocratic civilisation that is increasingly threatening the life of mind and spirit in its original creative expression - the word - it seems particularly inhuman to deprive man of word-forms in one of their most grandiose manifestations. The signatories of this appeal, which is entirely ecumenical and non-political, have been drawn from every branch of modern culture in Europe and elsewhere. They wish to call to the attention of the Holy See, the appalling responsibility it would incur in the history of the human spirit were it to refuse to allow the Traditional Mass to survive, even though this survival took place side by side with other liturgical forms.

sspx.org posted:

The Catholic Faith is manifested through the Church's official prayers, the liturgy, of which the Mass is the most perfect expression. Since Vatican II the nature of the Mass has been significantly altered by a new rite. This Novus Ordo Missae, or new way of saying Mass, was introduced in 1969 by Pope Paul VI.

In the new rite, man has become more of the focus, not so much God. The priest and faithful gather for a meal to share with one another Christ’s loving presence.

This desire man-centered liturgy has produced noticeable changes: using vernacular languages, introducing "Mass facing the people" and equating the laity's role with that of the priest. Even the Blessed Sacrament has been removed from the visible center in the church and is now often reserved away from the main altar and out of view.

The traditional Mass, on the contrary, focuses on the worship of God and the true sacrificial nature of the Mass. The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus Christ, through the priest, offers His Body and Blood to His Father in atonement for all the sins of humanity; Holy Communion is a consequence of this sacrifice and allows men to receive the effects of the sacrifice of reparation.

The use of a sacred language such as Latin for the worship of God, the many signs of respect and adoration to show our loving submission to Him, the unique role of the ordained priest who takes the place of Christ at the altar, a reverent and humble reception of Holy Communion kneeling with the host placed on the tongue, the awe-inspiring sacred chants are all indicative of how the Mass directs us to God.

A return to the traditional form of the liturgy has consistently produced an increase in vocations, a better attendance at Sunday and even at daily Mass, a more frequent use of the sacrament of penance, and overall a heightened awareness of the sacred, sacrificial nature of the liturgy.

The traditional Mass and all of the doctrine that it conveys is the means for a true restoration of all things in Christ.

Pope Francis posted:

But I am nonetheless saddened that the instrumental use of Missale Romanum of 1962 is often characterized by a rejection not only of the liturgical reform, but of the Vatican Council II itself, claiming, with unfounded and unsustainable assertions, that it betrayed the Tradition and the “true Church”.

A final reason for my decision is this: ever more plain in the words and attitudes of many is the close connection between the choice of celebrations according to the liturgical books prior to Vatican Council II and the rejection of the Church and her institutions in the name of what is called the “true Church.”

Liquid Communism posted:

We're at a point now where most of the people who remember the Tridentine Mass as the standard are elderly at best, and the pressure towards it appears to be coming in large part from arch-conservatives harking, as they do, back to a 'better day' when the laity was not involved in the mass except as spectators with an occasional call and response.

Kayten posted:

“The inquisition would be a footnote in the history of Europe if it hadn’t been politically advantageous for Protestant kings to fire up the propaganda mill” is a mild and mainstream view?

I hope that’s only among tradcaths.