State of the forums - January 2021 - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > State of the forums - January 2021

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

As promised, I figured I'd give an update regarding the forums finances and where we are at. I want to be open about such things - the money we make is to be managed by me on behalf of the community, rather than funding my own lifestyle, and as such there is no reason for me to keep these numbers private.

Income:
October 22nd - October 31st, 2020:
Raw store revenue: $8,401.55
Processing fees: -$509.30
Hosting cost: -$1,127.33

November 2020:
Raw store revenue: $7,903.01
Processing fees: -$635.22
Hosting cost: -$1,126.40

December 2020:
Raw Store Revenue: $5,549.14
Processing fees: -$463.28
Hosting cost -$1,138.45

Credit card processing fees are pretty harsh. Hosting costs remain relatively stable for now, but in the next year, costs will go up. We have some modernization projects that are going to require spinning up new servers and migrating to them, and, in the interim period, both new servers and old servers will co-exist. In addition, some of these new costs will be permanent and represent things that provide new functionality or development resources. It's wild that we don't have a dev database instance and I plan on keeping one around.

Other costs we will incur include bills for legal and accounting services. These will be for the purpose of keeping the business in good legal standing and are 100% unrelated to the initial transaction with lowtax - I gave my word that forums store purchases wouldn't go to him or making a deal with him, and I meant it. I have kept a strict separation between forums finances and my personal finances and that is how it will stay.

I would like to congratulate Skyl3lazer for spending the most the first month - he will get to permaban lowtax! He spent enough to pay for an entire month of hosting costs, super cool.

I think this has the potential to be a really good year for something awful. I intend to be proactive in growing this place, be it be enticing old users to return or attracting new ones, and I intend to do so without compromising the culture here. I think old-style internet forums are the best way to communicate online and I think a lot of people who have never posted on a forum would use them if they knew they were there.

Forums tech has been progressing nicely. I am still in the process of doing the legal legwork to hire Astral (it is more onerous than I ever realized to do this right.) We have some big improvements planned even if many of them are under the hood. There is a tech forum now that I expect will get much more active over the coming year as more stuff changes.

Overall, while we are covering our costs just fine, I could use more money for development work. I am not going to pretend that we're on our last legs, or struggling to pay hosting costs. That said, I am going to spend money on modernizing the software and software process around here. Developer hours are expensive and there is a lot of work to be done to modernize this place. It would be nice to have some sort stable base of revenue that doesn't so much depend on people making purchases each month. I am considering starting a patreon for this reason - recurring donations are difficult to implement in the store software we have, and it would be nice for planning purposes to be fairly certain we're gonna get at least $X/month. Please let me know what you think of this - my impression from the emails I've received is that a number of people are willing to contribute each month, and they currently don't have a way to do that.

I still don't have an update on the front page. There has been so much to do for the forums themselves that it's hard to even start thinking about the frontpage. I managed to get lowtax's name off of it, eventually.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2021 18:09

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 22, 2024 15:52

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Rarity posted:

I know you said this but have you tasted my artisan cookies yet?

For full disclosure I ate some fancy cookies about a month ago, but I paid for them with my own money.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2021 18:17

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Famethrowa posted:

obviously 3 months are too short to draw conclusions from, but I'm curious if you have a general sense based on prior years what the inflow was. Is revenue higher? Lower? Returning to baseline?

The data I have is highly variable - my first impression is we're a little lower than the average was a couple years ago, but that could easily swing up or down and it's close. That's not including lowtax's patreon income which was all just money on top of numbers kinda like these. January is already higher than December was fwiw.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2021 18:19

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Jose Oquendo posted:

How difficult would it be to setup some sort of SA subscription for recurring revenue instead of going through Patreon since they'd take a cut. Offer something like something awful.com email addresses and other cheap nerd poo poo in exchange for a sub.

I've been looking into this and it's hard. I certainly don't like the idea of paying patreon a cut though, clearly, the credit card companies take their cut as well. Subscription code would have to function differently from existing code, because I don't want to store any payment information on our side, and we'd need a way to set and expire your subscription status without you personally making web requests to do it. It's something I want but, imo, it will be a long time before the gains actually outweigh the development and maintenance cost. Unlike the forums I am not attached to our current store software and am going to be evaluating alternatives.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2021 18:33

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:

adding a recurring income stream seems reasonable for figuring out the development plan, but is there an idea of how much per month we'd all want to fund operations in perpetuity with a cushion for risks? obviously the development would flow off of the poster's needs and what the internet in year+x is like, but is there a plan for $100k/month to discourage donations, etc?

Lol this is a good point and no I have not thought about what I'd do with 100k/month. Maybe I'll buy a GTR and blow it up with SA-branded hand grenades. There is certainly room for more developers if astral and me both end up working full time - I don't know what the actual limit of my ability to manage and dispense money on behalf of the site is, but getting to 100k is pretty hard to imagine. Even in like 2005, I don't think the forums made more than 60k/month.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2021 18:42

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

really queer Christmas posted:

Why did fees go from 6% in Oct to 8% in Nov? Renegotiated contract?

I'm just lolling at the amount of profit this place makes. Obviously hiring someone will eat all of that up but still 4-6k a month to just sit there and do nothing while dnd sad brains redtext each other is just easy money.

It's variable and there is a fixed and percentage-based portion for each transaction. I believe in October, in that initial burst of purchases, we had a bunch of large lump sum donors, saving money on those fixed portions. In addition, the credit card companies charge varying amounts for various cards and generally, the fancier the card is, the higher a fee we pay. It's very opaque even for me - I get some manner of breakdown of names of various fees, but they aren't exactly illuminating. November and December have the normal flow of mostly $5 and $10 purchases and thus have a higher percentage going to fees.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2021 18:46

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Who What Now posted:

Any plans to work alongside the developer of the AwfulApp to make it officially endorsed by SA (of it hasn't been already)?

I have not done this - the plan right now is to work with them enough to not break them too bad, but treat the forums software itself as the highest priority instead of splitting dev resources between the app and the site. Improving the site helps everyone. I think there are ways in which we can move the site such that the app can seamlessly benefit and I think they are worth pursuing.

So I'll stop short of an official endorsement in that sense but....I use the android app. It's cool.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2021 18:53

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

alnilam posted:

Here's a question Jeffrey, and you may not know the answer yet. I assume that SA LLC is its own entity and has its own bank account, and I imagine you're going to let it build up some cash buffer, but... Do you ever plan to pay yourself income from SA LLC? I think it would be reasonable if you did, I mean you fronted the money to buy it after all and you are doing work to run the place. I appreciate the transparency and hope it continues and I think if you are going to pay a dev for their work (good idea) you would have every reason to pay yourself too.

A big problem with the previous ownership was, as others have said, bursting in here twice a year to say the forums are dying we need money, which I think most of us now know was never really true. His lying about this and lack of transparency is a big part of why people begrudged him of buying fancy cookies and stuff. But with the transparency you're giving, and running it like a non-profit, and putting the needs of SA first, I don't think it's inherently wrong to receive some income from the business you bought.

Just gonna be clear that I did not buy "Something Awful LLC", only its assets, and it is indeed owned by its own entity with its own bank account.

My plan here was to, once things are settled and coder(s) are hired, to consider paying myself, at the same rate I pay other developers, for hours of development work I actually do. Just owning the assets doesn't entitle me to a salary, imo, but I think it is reasonable to try to recoup my investment with work done on the site's behalf. Overall, I have not worried about this or figured this out, because my personal finances are fine and I am in no pressing need of income to live. I'd rather get things off the ground right than hurry up and pay myself.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2021 19:11

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Ugly In The Morning posted:

I would totally subscribe and pay like, 20 bucks a month to get two gift certs to change someone else�s avatar emailed to me because the forums store is clunky enough that it�s definitely stopped me from doing some redtexts because

Storing payment info/a PayPal button so I don�t have to hunt down my wallet to make store purchases would rule, but I�m not sure how much that would add to overhead.

Storing payment info is a :can:

in that there are all sorts of Very Serious Security Requirements to taking credit card payments, and some of them are easily sidestepped by not storing any sort of payment information. This is not just me being paranoid, but would also represent new costs as there is separation required from the rest of the servers. Maybe making browser autocomplete work with our form would be a good step? Then you could save payment info in your browser and use it on the site more easily, without adding the burden of securely storing payment info to our backend.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2021 19:15

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Flair posted:

Any plans to open source the code or parts of it to have the OSS community to contribute?

This is legally murky as the code is still based on vbulletin 2. While large parts of it have been replaced, some of the code is very much still owned by jelsoft, and I cannot release that. I don't know to what extent they are litigious but I gotta cover our collective asses here. This isn't the only barrier but it's a big one. Working towards getting more of the forums code out is definitely in my long term vision for this place, but it's not going to happen tomorrow, or this year.

The javascript and css can and will be open at least. It's theoretically accessible now though I don't think we've put out any documentation for it.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2021 19:19

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Sirotan posted:

One of the things I remember being really worried about the last time Lowtax was complaining about all his medical issues was what the business continuity plan for the forums was, should Lowtax become too disabled to continue managing things, or if he died. Is there anything like that in place now?

No but it's on my todo list. I don't honestly have a great answer. If I die, well, it's not acceptable for the forums to go to my disinterested heirs. I wish I had more to tell you but I know this is an issue and I'm not ignoring it.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2021 19:21

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

punk rebel ecks posted:

I have a few questions JeffreyofYOSPOS:

What do you mean by development costs? Do you hire other developers to develop the site?

Is the site gaining or losing in popularity?

Do you live off the site?

I'm hiring astral as a site coder and, if he ends up working full time and there's still more money, I'm open to more.

I will see to it that this place grows. I don't know what the right metric to determine growing or shrinking is, and I know that the last six months have seen some crazy poo poo and aren't representative of any sort of trend. I imagine some people are gone for good after yikesaroo, and I imagine some older posters came back upon hearing the news, so we'll just have to see how things shake out. There is room to grow this place and funny people who hate social media but don't know this place exists are out there just waiting to be recruited.

I haven't taken any money if that's what you're asking. I posted about it above in that I am willing to eventually pay myself for development work, but as of yet I have not. I don't treat forums money as my money and I never will. Ironically, if you said "on" instead of "off", I'm guilty - I don't really go to other websites and "live" on this one.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2021 19:35

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Cannon_Fodder posted:

When am I getting my loving spaceship pictures?

While I have purchased the assets of Something Awful LLC, I have not purchased its debts. My hands are clean.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2021 20:07

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Arrhythmia posted:

We went over 8k during the election.

I think it got to 10k, and 7k during the capitol riots.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2021 00:00

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Palpek posted:

There was a guy cosplaying as the SA paywall page at a Danganronpa convention.

lmao good

# ¿ Jan 28, 2021 20:38

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Dumb Sex-Parrot posted:

I'm confused about the bolded bit; are you saying there have been, or will be, more payments going to Lowtax?

That's "the initial transaction with lowtax" as in "the initial transaction, you know, the one with lowtax". Future transactions will be with for other things like employees, hosting providers, company car payments, and times square billboard space. Sorry for the ambiguous wording - there are no more transactions with lowtax.

# ¿ Jan 29, 2021 03:13

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Knormal posted:

The 32-bit time bug has been fixed for ages in all modern OSes.

It may still be broken in various apps, but everyone's still got 17 years to upgrade to a patched version. Maybe we'll even be off vBulletin by then.

not everyone has 10,000 hour probations to implement okay

# ¿ Jan 29, 2021 06:12

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Knormal posted:

The 32-bit time bug has been fixed for ages in all modern OSes.

It may still be broken in various apps, but everyone's still got 17 years to upgrade to a patched version. Maybe we'll even be off vBulletin by then.

It's still not fixed in mysql so, well, we're in good company.

# ¿ Jan 29, 2021 08:48

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

I will accept bitcoin and I'll throw in a discount - accounts normally cost $10, but I'll sell them for only 1 bitcoin.

# ¿ Feb 21, 2021 09:47

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 22, 2024 15:52

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Carbon dioxide posted:

Fair. The extra income can be used to offset the complete climate destruction bitcoin mining is causing.

it could, but instead it will be used on the website :getin:

# ¿ Feb 21, 2021 12:32

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > State of the forums - January 2021